augiedoggy

Talking about the different types of antifreeze and thier applications is one thing... Getting into a pissing match about whats best is another... We know that the stardard old school green antifreeze works fine and has a long life in an old copper /brass setup and we know there are newer technologies out there for longer life with aluminum and newer materials used in newer cars.. GM developed and recommends the orange stuff for the aluminum setups... To argue further seems to just cause more confusion and harm than good... Everyone's going to have different opinions and claim there choice is best, that's nothing new... Just as the technology in these cars is nothing new. Besides wanting a coolant designed to be safe for aluminum use there is no real practical advantage to researching further in a streetcar application. thats just My opinion. Do you have a valid practical reason so much research should be done? I am willing to consider it. regardless its your choice I'm just trying to see the logic in it, thats all.

I see your point, My point? I just pulled the 41 year old rad out of my car and it was still working fine. I doubt all the PO owners who did such a poor job of maintenance paid much attention to antifreeze choice, but still it did not have a harmful effect of anything in the last 40 years from what I can see? I pulled mine for weight savings and since I was replacing the mount and engine I figured it would be a good time to change it out.

The13Bats

You are preaching at the quire, I have not and will not say any coolant it "best" some people do like to argue that idea and I respect they believe a coolant is best or actually is best for them because I will believe one is best for me... but I will not try to push it on others.
If someone takes it as insult and need for attacking a person because they do not agree with them well, that's a them problem not a me problem.

I agree that in most cases in many threads that arguing like I have seen coolant discussions go is detrimental to tech in general.

I did say that pre mix is best for most people if that is a pissing contest type remark in your mind then.

I have to say I disagree with you that research on anything is of no advantage, I love to learn new and or get more information and since tech changes daily there is always something new to learn,
However, I do respect the cats who will do it the easy way and leave the research and learning to others who desire it.

Your case of a 41 yo radiator that was as you are leading me to believe neglected and still is in top condition is I believe rare, but pretty darn cool ( little pun intended )

tsw71

I find it curious that that this entire thread has focused on colors, brands, cooling properties, ect., but there has been no mention of high silicate vs low or no silicate coolant. When I began pulling parts off my 350 for my recent swap to a 383, I found a frightening amount of white crusty buildup in my aluminum water pump, intake coolant passages and copper brass radiator. Had I not spotted this or paid any attention to this, It would not have been long before things started plugging up. Prior to now, I would just grab some distilled water and any house brand of green coolant and dump it in. After a bit of reading, I realized that the generic autozone brand green coolant was high in silicates. For the new 383, I did some homework and went with no silicate coolant. My point to all of this is that there is much more to picking a coolant than what everyone is discussing here.

augiedoggy

Yes very good point, This is why I picked the orange coolant GM specifically designed for use with aluminum myself... I let the engineers who designed the car do the research for me here..

I'm not bashing anyone in particular just the overall direction these threads always seem to go in where its less about practiacl facts and more about hypothetical s and opinions mainly just to support ones views on things.

Research is GREAT I often over do it myself but I ask to what practical advantage is it other than using the correct type of antifreeze for ones application?

Another point to mention is often people take shortcuts and use regular water when overheating has occurred at the side of the road or for topoff.. This causes a lot of corrosion and buildup as well regardless of antifreeze.
I used RO water myself because I have it and it has almost none of the minerals that cause issues.

The13Bats

Actually I did post links that do have tech on that subject but I learned some people would rather diss and scold ( not directed at you ) than read any type tech so
I also didnt post it but have a tech sheet why distilled water is not something desirable.

jkippin

I was hoping on my earlier post o help bring this back around and with some sarcasm and humor on colors LOL I guess the sarcasm was lost in the text.
use Prestone concentrate a 60/40 mix to give me the best protection here in the great North LOL I don't see any silicates listed just ethylene glycol and diethelene glycol. No distilled water just good Maine well water.

The13Bats

Sorry it's hard to tell who is talking about real exchanges in tech stuff or who is just being sarcastic and humorous trying to get the kids back on track....I guess I fell for your ruse.

Curious...do you also drink the well water or is just of watering and stuff?

jkippin

Dude REALLY !! I just spit my water all over my lap top laughing

The13Bats

You sure it was only water?
Really?!?!? you spit water all over your laptop they do not like getting wet...

I will ask this question and then I will move on and if not thread topic related I will not chime in,

You seem pretty savvy with forum etiquette I have seen a trend in threads lately, certain cats will not add to the subject of the thread but will directly or indirectly scold and or poke at those trying to talk tech, do you have any ideas why that trend seems to be growing?

usmilret

Plenty of businesses would love it if you over think this.
You only need ethylene glycol antifreeze in a 60-40 mix. 60% water and 40% ethylene glycol. This offers the best antifreeze protection so if you buy a 50-50 mix you are actually losing money.
Antifreeze (green) has silicates to keep the water pump lubricated and anti-corrosives mainly to keep the freeze plugs from corroding. Those anti-corrosives also keep your engine, radiator and heater core from corroding.

The13Bats

Coolness back to tech...I agree however here in florida I do not need antifreeze, and mine will/should run cooler with water and an additive.

COOLTED

True. Aluminum is not as good of a conductor of heat, but it will dissipate heat better than copper and brass. I don't know if the are still out there, but at one time you could get CPU coolers with a copper base bonded to an aluminum heatsink.

As far as waterless goes, I wouldn't want to be stuck somewhere in need of waterless coolant and not have any.

lurch59

My experience has been similar to yours in that I see a not very clean coolant system. Driving older cars, I've replaced several heater cores usually after some period of being unaware of the small leak from corrosion dripping first into the heater box, corroding that, then leaking onto the interior carpet, ruining that, and rusting the floor board under that. This is one of the reasons I switched to a waterless coolant. I don't ever want to change a heater core again.

It's true the green antifreeze contain silicates that coat the interior passages in the engine etc and flake off, causing abrasion of the water pump blades and thermostat housing etc. Ever use a coolant filter? I have, there's an amazing amount of coolant detritus that flows throughout your cooling system. Some of it is manufacturing scarf to be sure, but some of it is spent coolant additives also. None of these problems occur with waterless coolants because corrosion inhibitors are not needed.

lurch59

Annual inspection of the water pump weep hole, belts and hoses is the answer. I haven't had to add coolant on the road for over 30 years.

68/70Vette

100% ethylene glycol in my 68 since about 1973. 100% ethylene glycol in my 95 Seville and 97 Tbird. The only problem with the traditional ethylene glycol fluids is that the old formulations had silicates in them that were abrasive to water pump bearings. The new Prestone ethylene glycol coolants have no/reduced silicates in them. No corrosion with pure ethylene glucol and also it doesn't boil until 350 degrees F, so no pressurized coolant systems.

The13Bats

Corvette and overclocked computers hum...both are normally hopped up...
I never said or will be 100% convinced that aluminum is a "better" material for corvette radiators,
I know it's considered a taboo waste of time for some here but if you do some research ( unbiased ) in other words people selling cooper will say copper is best people selling aluminum say it's best but the ones who do not care either way and have done tests show when all other things are the same and the radiator size is the same copper and aluminum cool about the same or copper wins, point is most of the people doing for a living will not beat their fist one is better, but if they do they normally vote copper.

Aluminum is about 60 cents a pound and copper is over 2 bucks,
Plus aluminum is lighter something lots of people stepping up to aluminum radiators desire.
I was not at this level of information a few years ago when I bought aluminum or I might have bought cooper.

In the computer world the more preferred heat sinks seem to be the mix of copper and aluminum, again aluminum wins for being cheaper and lighter, no one wants heavy computer heat sinks stressing boards hence why we see aluminum on our sound and video cards.

"None of these problems occur with waterless coolants because corrosion inhibitors are not needed."
While true none of those problems occur with cooling systems using correct premix or water and an additive, different ways of the same end result.
The key is using the correct "coolant" for your engine, if you have aluminum parts you must use the correct coolant for aluminum, this has added to the extent of my research on water and an additive,
For example people report purple ice doesnt seem to like aluminum.

I inspect things I would hope as good as the next gear head, but a lot do not, they wait for problems.
In 30 plus years I have never had a coolant system failure and never touched waterless coolant what coolant was in that neglected 41 years old with no issues system?
I did however a few months ago, the Xterra did get a small leak at the plastic tank, the pin hole leak did it's spewing for a few days as I added "water" until I could get time to replace the radiator, the only cooling issue I had in corvette was the 66 had a plugged up stock radiator of unknown history, that was 20 years ago and I didn't consider cutting the radiator open to see what was inside it plugging it up,

I do not see the possibility of a cooling system leak a reason to or not to run waterless if a person so desires to run it but if you do not carry extra waterless with you and the world becomes an un perfect place for you then you will have to top off with "water" and then go through a heck of a lot of hassle more than it would be worth to me to get back to where evans says you have to be to run their waterless product.

Lack of cooling system issues is all about inspection and maintenance over which coolant one runs if the coolant they do run is correct for their car.

Running 100% ethylene glycol, even the makers say do not do this, 70% seems to be the mark,

The best reasons I can find are,
Straight ethylene glycol will freeze at about zero so if you are using it to lower freezing and it gets below zero for long where you are then it will freeze, this one seems off to me.

Pure antifreeze-coolant doesn't have the heat-transfer abilities that a mixture of antifreeze-coolant and water does. In fact, if pure antifreeze-coolant is used in a car's cooling system, the system loses about 35 percent of the heat-transfer ability,
Pure antifreeze-coolant isn't nearly as efficient at getting the heat out of the engine as is antifreeze-coolant and water.

water must be mixed with the antifreeze-coolant in order to keep the performance additives (silicates, phosphates and nitrates) suspended. Without water, these important additives tend to settle. If they do that, you lose anti-corrosion and other additive protection.

What all this is telling us is that the manufacturers know more about their products than the man in the street does. Second-guessing can have disastrous consequences, no matter how logical it may seem at the time. As for the mechanics who told people to ''do it!'' they have a lot to learn, don't they? It's a shame people like that are telling us how to care for our cars.

Please do not hate me for this, not my "opinion" that I made up it's what the companies who make antifreeze state so I will believe them for now.

So like I keep saying for most people the correct for your car premix is the way to go...

augiedoggy

All that will help but it wont completely rule out the luck of the draw when your thermostat decides to fail and stick. And new thermostats dont seem to be as good quality. I went through 3 before finding one that actaully worked correctly and reliably. most are now made in the same factory in china and sold under at least three major brand names from my research.

For the record I never said research was a waste of time (The opposite actually).. Just that I question its merit here since My experience and millions of others with this standard cooling system over many years has already shown me these classic cars arent rocket science, Just using the correct type of antifreeze for the hardware your running will do the job fine if maintained at proper intervals. I asked for justification or practical (real world) reasoning for the debate in this thread and got no explanation? just criticism for questioning it in the first place?

I question paying the extra money and time for something that will likely never net to the return on the investment when the regular speced fluid will do the job without problems...Its a legitimate point of view in such a discussion and Instead of enlightening me with an answer you mock?

The type of water used is just as important yet that aspect has been joked about and disregarded yet that is usually the real problem / cause with corroded and failed systems. even in the chemical processors I work on RO water is speced because the lack of minerals and impurities greatly lengthens the additives effective lifespan.

I brew beer and when mixing starsan (a sanitizer) with regular water it turns cloudy and fails to work in less than a couple weeks but if you mix it with RO water the same spray bottle of sanitizer will remain clear and effective for many months.

The13Bats

What do you know you entered into more research on the subject of cooling systems, fun huh?
So with what you learned of RO water with your work and brewing isn't that the water you would want in you radiator?

take my case I desire to run "water" and some additive, not sure which brand yet, JB tested best in several unbiased tests but they have a lack of tech lines email or phone at least that I can find so far,
Anyway, all the companies who make additives to add to straight water recommend RO water in fact a couple said if you use distilled you will ruin "things".

Big2Bird

My Model T Ford uses water. Any kind. It is 90 years old and does not leak. Me thinks you guys are way too concerned about zilch. It's a Chevy, not the space shuttle.
Millions of cars use plain old antifreeze, and work just fine. My 2 cents.

The13Bats

Well that helped in some way I suppose,
I'm not at all "concerned" I just enjoy the tech,
It's cool to me that straight water didnt rot things out on the "T"
Now that you tossed in your 2 cents do you feel any better?