New Borgeson still some wandering
10-15-2015, 09:16 AM
#23
Drifting
Do NOT adjust the lash screw on the box. It's a new box, it is set correctly.
You have two issues, not related to each other.
1) Slop in the steering. The first thing to check is that the box is on-center when going straight. All boxes have slop off-center (part of the design). It's easy to install a borgeson wrong as the lock screw on the borgeson rag-joint doesn't line up with the flat on the factory steering column shaft. To verify: Turn wheel lock-to-lock (with wheels off the ground). Then turn it back exactly half way. You'll notice slightly more effort is needed right on center and there's no slop. This has to be your straight-ahead position. Adjust rag-joint and tie-rods to make it thus.
2) Wandering. As long as all the bushings & ball joints are good, it's caused by insufficient caster angle. Factory alignment spec had very little caster. You want as much as the alignment shop can give you (2.5-3 dgrs or so). More is better. I have aftermarket upper control arms giving me 4.5 dgrs and the car is very stable. I can let go of the wheel and it goes straight.
You have two issues, not related to each other.
1) Slop in the steering. The first thing to check is that the box is on-center when going straight. All boxes have slop off-center (part of the design). It's easy to install a borgeson wrong as the lock screw on the borgeson rag-joint doesn't line up with the flat on the factory steering column shaft. To verify: Turn wheel lock-to-lock (with wheels off the ground). Then turn it back exactly half way. You'll notice slightly more effort is needed right on center and there's no slop. This has to be your straight-ahead position. Adjust rag-joint and tie-rods to make it thus.
2) Wandering. As long as all the bushings & ball joints are good, it's caused by insufficient caster angle. Factory alignment spec had very little caster. You want as much as the alignment shop can give you (2.5-3 dgrs or so). More is better. I have aftermarket upper control arms giving me 4.5 dgrs and the car is very stable. I can let go of the wheel and it goes straight.
Do exactly as zwede says. Caster: More is better!!!
Regards from Down Under.
aussiejohn
10-15-2015, 05:30 PM
#25
Racer
I'm just following this thread as I'm chasing a similar issue. I'm saving the Borgeson idea as a last resort if nothing else works, and it is somewhat better since the trailing and camber arms went in. Also hope there is no rule against cutting and pasting other persons comments but if you have stock upper control arms I thought this idea might help you:
"Gkull has increased the caster by slotting the shaft in the upper A-arms 1/4 inch to allow more movement. This usually done in a vertical mill and he said it could be done without taking the a-arms apart. If you move the slot forward it will allow the arm to move rearward increasing caster. He runs 5 to 6 degrees positive".
I would try this but since I'm going all with new suspension parts, I'll soon be pulling the trigger on a pair of VBP offset a-arms with aluminum cross shafts. That will get me close to 5* caster.
"Gkull has increased the caster by slotting the shaft in the upper A-arms 1/4 inch to allow more movement. This usually done in a vertical mill and he said it could be done without taking the a-arms apart. If you move the slot forward it will allow the arm to move rearward increasing caster. He runs 5 to 6 degrees positive".
I would try this but since I'm going all with new suspension parts, I'll soon be pulling the trigger on a pair of VBP offset a-arms with aluminum cross shafts. That will get me close to 5* caster.
10-28-2015, 11:11 AM
#26
Sloppy over steering
Thanks for the list Mikep3.
- Rag joint is new
- Haven't checked steering column bearing
- I haven't done anything to the rear suspension since purchase. I redid the front first so
looks like I'm going to have to pay attention to the rear .
I checked with the alignment shop today and got a print out. The caster is set at 2.9 on one and 3.3 on the other. Said that was all he could get on them before he ran out of room.
- Rag joint is new
- Haven't checked steering column bearing
- I haven't done anything to the rear suspension since purchase. I redid the front first so
looks like I'm going to have to pay attention to the rear .
I checked with the alignment shop today and got a print out. The caster is set at 2.9 on one and 3.3 on the other. Said that was all he could get on them before he ran out of room.
Last edited by Tommy K 47; 10-28-2015 at 11:22 AM.
10-28-2015, 12:13 PM
#27
Racer
Thread Starter
I wouldn't call it "sloppy" per se. Just wanders a little. However, it is still much better than the original was. Much more in control. I can change lanes on the interstate or highway quickly and bring it right back without having to grab the steering wheel with both hands. I'm going to wait on mine until I redo the rear. It's all original so I will replace all the bushings, shocks and have the trailing arms rebuilt. Then if it persists I will "curse" it. I added the hydroboost at the same time I did the borgeson and the brakes are awesome with it.
As for the rack-n-pinion I have no experience with it so can't say one way or the other.
Thanks
Barry
As for the rack-n-pinion I have no experience with it so can't say one way or the other.
Thanks
Barry
10-31-2015, 01:22 PM
#28
Thanks Barry for the thread and all the great info! I paid attention to what Zwede and Silvertone mentioned and the first thing I'm going to do in the spring, after I get the car back from its custom paint job, is make sure the car is going straight when the gearbox is centered (that makes a lot of sense) and to get an alignment printout to assure proper caster and toe.
Thanks again, Tom
Thanks again, Tom
Last edited by Tommy K 47; 10-31-2015 at 01:27 PM.
10-31-2015, 01:34 PM
#29
Do NOT adjust the lash screw on the box. It's a new box, it is set correctly.
You have two issues, not related to each other.
1) Slop in the steering. The first thing to check is that the box is on-center when going straight. All boxes have slop off-center (part of the design). It's easy to install a borgeson wrong as the lock screw on the borgeson rag-joint doesn't line up with the flat on the factory steering column shaft. To verify: Turn wheel lock-to-lock (with wheels off the ground). Then turn it back exactly half way. You'll notice slightly more effort is needed right on center and there's no slop. This has to be your straight-ahead position. Adjust rag-joint and tie-rods to make it thus.
2) Wandering. As long as all the bushings & ball joints are good, it's caused by insufficient caster angle. Factory alignment spec had very little caster. You want as much as the alignment shop can give you (2.5-3 dgrs or so). More is better. I have aftermarket upper control arms giving me 4.5 dgrs and the car is very stable. I can let go of the wheel and it goes straight.
You have two issues, not related to each other.
1) Slop in the steering. The first thing to check is that the box is on-center when going straight. All boxes have slop off-center (part of the design). It's easy to install a borgeson wrong as the lock screw on the borgeson rag-joint doesn't line up with the flat on the factory steering column shaft. To verify: Turn wheel lock-to-lock (with wheels off the ground). Then turn it back exactly half way. You'll notice slightly more effort is needed right on center and there's no slop. This has to be your straight-ahead position. Adjust rag-joint and tie-rods to make it thus.
2) Wandering. As long as all the bushings & ball joints are good, it's caused by insufficient caster angle. Factory alignment spec had very little caster. You want as much as the alignment shop can give you (2.5-3 dgrs or so). More is better. I have aftermarket upper control arms giving me 4.5 dgrs and the car is very stable. I can let go of the wheel and it goes straight.
Last edited by Tommy K 47; 10-31-2015 at 01:37 PM.
11-01-2015, 01:51 PM
#30
Racer
By the way, I did not have the rear aligned when they did the front yesterday. Will that matter?
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Tommy K 47 (11-01-2015)
11-01-2015, 02:06 PM
#31
Drifting
Without the rear not tracking straight you may be chasing your tail on a straight stretch of road.
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Tommy K 47 (11-01-2015)
04-23-2016, 11:38 PM
#32
Hey BLDun, Just curious if you ever got this resolved or not? I wasn't sure from your posts if you were planning to get the rear rebuilt/aligned now or sometime in the future. Just got done installing a full suspension rebuild and Borgeson unit, but haven't been able to drive it yet. Before the rebuild mine acted similar to what you were describing, so just in case I run into problems was wondering if you got yours fixed.