wolflt1

hi everyone,

before replacing the box everything was more or less all right. the car tracked correctly with a slight tendency to go right.
recently I replaced my manual steering box as it could no longer be adjusted.

I have more or less same problem as the link below. a solution was not posted.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...djustment.html

present situation
steering wheel centered middle branch at 6 o'clock position
steering column centered flat at ragjoint in 12o'clock position
steering box input centered
steering box input shaft flat at 12 o'clock position

ragjoint new

pitman arm correct for manual steering
pitman shaft notch at 0° faces front of car. notch at 180° faces rear of car
pitman arm points to front of car

after reattaching pitman arm to the relay rod ball stud, with the front wheels straight ahead, the steering wheel turned about 10° to the right!

when i centered the steering wheel the front wheels are turned in the left direction--left is toe-out, right is toe-in.

the tie rod ends driver side have 0.19"-0.12"/5-6mm (x2) threads visible.
the tie rod ends passenger side have about 0.12"/3mm (x2) visible

so with the steering wheel centered, i have to lengthen the driver side tie rods in order to center the steering wheel. the passenger side i have to shorten.

i measured the toe out on the left wheel and i have a difference of 0.79" (20mm) between the front of the wheel rim and the back!

i now a problem of not having enough threads to toe-out the right wheel. and for that matter of not have enough threads to toe-in the left wheel

tie rod ends, relay arm ball stud are tight--no play.

did I do some thing wrong?
should I start from new and replace all the tie rod ends, relay arm ball stud, and idler arm?

thanks


1970 convertible

toobroketoretire

After I replaced my tie rod ends several years ago I found I had to cut off about 1/2" off the end of my right side tie rod ends so they could screw in a bit more because they was about 1/2" longer than my OEM tie rod ends.

DUB

OK...Not knowing if your steering wheel hub is correctly position on the main shaft of the steering column. I would check that. There is a notch on the cast hub and a notch in the end of the steering column shaft that MUST be aligned so your turn signals will cancel correctly....and NOT favor one side or the other.

I know the Corvette steering gear box DOES NOT have power steering fluid flowing through it like other GM cars....BUT...when I am reading 'manual steering adjustment'...that can be subjective to interpretation. SO...do you have power steering???

When I am setting up a power steering car or a non power steering car. What I look for is that when I have the steering wheel positioned correctly for driving straight...and I KNOW that the steering wheel hub is CORRECT. And the steering column has been attached to the gear box...and the rag joint is correctly positioned...and the pitman arm is pointing towards the front of the car. And I attach the center link to it. That when I go and install the tie-rod assemblies. I want to be able to see the grease fittings for the INNER tie-rods be EQUALLY positioned...so the grease fitting can be greased and look to be in the same position/location in REFERENCE the lower control arms rear bushing areas.

Then I adjust the tie-rod assemblies. And that is after I have threaded the tie-rods into the sleeves all the way so when they are turned out...they basically have the same amount of threads.

The condition of your control arm bushings can some effect on this 'pulling to the right'.

AND...if you car is a power steering car...the balancing of the power steering control valve can correct this problem of pulling to the right due to the control valve is not balanced.

AND...it is possible that the alignment may need to be adjusted in a way to better compensate for the slope in the road....because most roads do slope downwards to the right for water drain off. Because roads do have a crest in the center.

DUB

wolflt1

hi again,
I have manual steering no power steering.
the steering hub and column is centered. everything is from steering wheel to pitman arm.
I've added some photos. looks like I should rebuild the ball stud on the relay rod/center link!
every part with some candy red paint is at least 25years old. the vette was red at one time.



pitman arm



relay rod/center link ball stud


tie rod end left inner thread



tie rod end left outer thread



tie rod end right inner thread


tie rod end right outer thread

Jim Shea

There are 30 splines on the end of the steering column shaft where the steering wheel hub attaches. You should be able to index the hub by one spline CCW. That should change the steering wheel spoke by 12 degrees. Now your steering wheel should be off by only 2 degrees. Now you should be able to correct for that 2 degrees in the opposite direction by rotating the tie rod adjuster tubes in the opposite direction.

I think my directions above are directionally correct. If I am not correct you (hopefully) can understand the gist of my comments and try to obtain additional tie rod end adjustment by changing the hub index and centering the steering wheel by rotating the adjuster tube from the opposite direction.

BTW, I appreciate your clear, sharp steering system pictures.

Jim

DUB

GREAT photos as Jim mentioned. PERFECT example of being able to see what you see.

NOW...my question is that with the steering wheel being straight....take a photo from the front of the car so you can show how the INNER tie-rod end grease fitting are looking. IF the steering wheel is CORRECT...then each grease fitting should look the same when you use the rear lower control arm bushing location as a gauge.

NOW..I know that the rag joint is made where it is 'keyed' for some gear boxes..and some gear boxes have splines that go all the way around ,.....or at least I have encountered them in the past. 99.9 % of what I work on has power steering. Which i know the rag joint and gear box are 'keyed specifically. And I know that the aftermarket rag joints are not exactly perfect to what GM made.....unless someone is making them exact.

SO....like Jim mentioned....you can correct this at the rag joint IF your rag joint and gear box end are NOT keyed....like it is at the end of your steering column shaft where that flange is installed.

And for what it is worth.....I personally like to run the nuts all the way down onto the tie rod end....then thread the shaft down to the nuts. And when the tie rods are held in place...when I turn the shaft for the tie rod adjustment...the rod is turning evenly on each tie rod end. Your RIGHT side looks even....but...the left side is not showing the same amount of threads and that had to do with the primary set-up. Not BIG deal...but...

DUB

wolflt1

just a short update.

really nothing new. I'm still waiting for the new parts to arrive--tie rod ends, pitman arm ball stud rebuild kit.

I've removed the tie rods and their ends and the pitman ball stud. would someone know how to remove the relay rod/centerlink from the idler arm without destroying the visible seal?
it's quite hard to get in a ball joint remover. maybe a small 2 pronged puller would do the job.

anyhow thanks for chiming in.
i'll get back as soon as the new parts are installed.


jim, I've been all over your steering documents.
my steering hub, column, rad joint, steering box, and pitman arm are all centered. the two flats (steering box input and steering column flat) are at 12 o'clock.

ronarndt

wolflt1- I just went thru a complete rebuild on the front suspension of my 68. Comments from above posters are right on. Two additional suggestions. Take your tie rods off as a unit and get an accurate measurement grease zerk to grease zerk of the length to use as a starting point for the new tie rod set up. If you get both new rod and ends, assemble the new ones and lay them side by side and match the grease zerks end to end with the old one. Your new steering gear should have had instructions about 1)being factory adjusted (do not change adjustment) and 2) finding the exact center of travel, since it is pressure loaded most at the center. Turn all the way left, mark the position, turn all the way right, mark the position and use the two marks to find center. You will feel the resistance/pressure increase at the center point. Using the flat on the shaft will get you to the approximate center. Fine tune by feel. If you are off, the gear will always be trying to return to center, despite where you have the wheels pointed and will "pull" to one side or the other. You can center the steering wheel using the steering column splines at the rag joint as was suggested above. To get the relay rod off the pitman arm, invest in a puller. I have an entire set that works on TR ends, ball joints, Pitman arms and it cost about $60. Well worth the money. RA

wolflt1

got the pitman stud off the pitman arm and removed the springs and cups.
the grease was old as if it had never been regreased. I cleaned out the relay arm/centerlink tube and tomorrow i'll fit in the new springs, cups and stud with plenty of
new grease!
on far in should the threaded plug go at the end of the relay/centerlink? screw it in until I can feed the cotter pin?

two photos of the stud and cup. notice the wear and corrosion probably been in there for 30 years!

wolflt1

update
i'm stumped. can't figure it out.

i fitted the new tie rod ends, pitman arm ball stud.
but the original problem persists!

i did a string alignment and got the front wheels pointing forward with (toe-in per side .0394"). as before the left and right tie rods
are of unequal length.
i have plenty of inner and outer threads on the left tie rod assembly and practically no inner and outer threads on the right tie rod.

if the relay rod/center link could be moved about a half inch to the left everything would be perfect.

i recapitualte
as per my attached photos
steering column centered with flat at rag joint at 12 o'clock.
steering box centered with input shaft flat at 12 o'clock position.

pitmans arm visually is facing to the front of the car.
idler arm also.

could it be that the pitman arm is not in its correct position on the shaft?
how far up should it go?
the arm big nut does not go complete up.


does caster have a big incidence on toe?

thanks again

Jba750

Any updates? I replaced the gearbox on my 76 and am now a half turn off center.

redvetracr

I have an early GM/Corvette manual here that says screw that plug in until it bottoms and back it out 3/4 of a turn plus a little bit more if necessary to slip the cotter pin in

Jba750

So what do you adjust if the center link is off center? My gear is centered and indexed at 12. Steering wheel is on the hub correct. Rag joint is correct. Correct pitman arm. The pitman arm and drag link are not paralleling the frame. The zerks for the inner tie rods are left of the lower a-arms.

Jba750

Did you make any progress? I'm ready to push mine off a cliff and be done with it

Jba750

Long story short, buy a new one not a cheap reman. Tried 2 different ones from rock auto. Both presented the alignment problem.

Bought a new box from Borgeson that fixed it.

ctuinstra

I've run into this exact same issue. I replace all ball joints and bushings and kept the original steering gearbox and pitman arm, etc. I lined everything thing up in the center; center on the gearbox, center with the steering wheel, centered the wheels and tie rods and then went to go put the pitman are on and it wasn't even close. The steering wheel is half a turn out. I can probably move the steering shaft on the splines to correct it, but the gearbox will never truly run centered, there will be more travel to one side then the other. Is this normal? Is moving the spines the "proper" way to fix it?