The13Bats

In the desktop building of my 69 one thing has haunted me since I got the car and was dd'ing it, it has an automatic, don't get me wrong I am not really a fan of hunting gears and in most cases a well built auto can spank many sticks but I am wanting my old school build, I want the feel and spirit of old school and seems that just demands a stick, like side pipes and fat tires,

So rooting around it's not really a hard swap, the parts are not too hard to find, I even had tommy do a removable cross member so I could putz around with whatever trans I wanted to,

But since I am not a stick person I do not know a lot of basic up to date info, if I just get the parts from an old c3 it will be a 4 speed no OD but I see 5 and even more speeds talked about,

Everything I do is budget based, Is the price jump really big when you get a stick with OD?

thanks!

gerry72

Here's the reality: A used Muncie is not that much cheaper than a used Five-speed. A new Muncie -yes, you can buy a new, upgraded Muncie- is not that much cheaper than a new Five-speed. But a used Muncie with a questionable future is a lot cheaper than a new Five-speed. Honestly, when you're comparing similar grade parts the price difference is close enough that unless you are just dead-dick broke, you have to decide if you want the OD or not.

In one of my cars (an old Ford), I swapped out the automatic for a Toploader. Even with a 3.89 gear, I was okay without OD.

The13Bats

interesting,
For the 5 speed what do I look for?
I love to be a cheap *** budget player but my wife will insist I buy a good one if that means new so be it....

TheSkunkWorks

Personally, I wouldn't want to tote around the added weight of a 6-speed, as there are a number of good 5-speeds w/OD that will do nicely, while others will argue the potential MPG benefits of having a 2nd OD gear. In any event, from a performance gearset standpoint just which setup would best fill the bill depends somewhat on what rear gear you have. Taller rears (smaller than 3.36) can definitely use a higher ratio 1st gear, but better not to have any larger a step between 1st and 2nd than necessary. Trust me, you do NOT want your 1st x diff multiplication to end up in dump truck range. Next gearset consideration is top gear. OD is cool, but if you want to still be able to pull at all in 5th you don't want that particular multiple to get too small. And, bear in mind there is such a thing as going past the point of diminishing returns and actually hurting highway MPG with way too tall a final ratio.
Something else to put in the mix is, despite the auto having somewhat of an advantage over typical manuals at the strip, should you happen to find yourself getting serious about carving up the twisty bits the latter is going to put you streets ahead. And here, the better you wish to become at rowing up and down thru the gears, the more you'll benefit from a lighter flywheel selection. I've long run a 15# on the street.
Anyway, FWIW, if I were currently in the market for a synchromesh 5 to put ahead of my 3.55 rear, I'd take a hard look the Richmond SS 5/OD w/2.89 1st & 0.77 5th, or TKO 600 RR w/2.87 1st & 0.82 5th. This is definitely a place where YMMV, given there's more than way to enjoy our hobby, but I do hope the above might help you land on the right box for your purposes.

The13Bats

thanks guys,
Skunk,
I would only go 5 over 4 just because but not because I would really be doing all that much high driving,

In my first 72 bb I busted two 4 speeds being stupid, so I know with my 69 bb I would have to respect the trans,

I have zero idea right now what rear gear I have it's a donor 68 chassis rebuilt not by me so I can only assume on the rear gear, 68 sb stick car if the diff is the same.

But you know how I am I wouldn't buy anything unless a cat like yourself said that should be what you want....

Metalhead140

I'd agree with TheSkunkWorks, to the point that I've just fitted up a tko600, with the 0.82 5th... I saved some money by not buying a kit (more money for me because I didn't have to pay to import it). Had to cut and weld up an offset in the shifter to get it in the right spot in the console, and had to open up the hole in the floor and use a bigger aftermarket boot to cover it, but nothing very difficult, and the end result looks identical to an expensive bolt in kit with vette-specific shifter with the console in place. Haven't driven it yet... Like you Bats, my concern was the strength of the stock 4 speed, and I'm still assembling the engine (did all the fitup with my old engine).

cv67

^^^
over the long haul a tko kit would be the cheapest believe it or not
I have a 6 spd even with 4.11 I have to get up close to 80 to use 6th mostly cause of th ecam

.082 final gear is perfect. Wont be high r wont lug either
Hurst drivelines sells a whole kit..wife happy and you too cause its all new
4 spd too easy to break with a bbc weve all been there.
You will LOVE it.

Some like the hyd clutch if I had to do it over id use the kit that has the linkage and beef the pieces up.
Dummy here cut the mount off the frame so...

John 65

I know the World class T5's that were in the Camaro and Firebirds aren't as strong as other OD transmissions..... but for a budget build you just cant go wrong.

I have 8 years with mine, its behind a 454 with 400HP and so far so good. Zero problems and I dont baby it. You can mod your rear trans mount to work, and shorten the driveshaft.

As far as a shifter goes I have 2. The Camaro stock style, that I put an offset on with a dummy vette stick to look correct in the console, and a Hurst short throw shifter that comes straight up on the right side. Guess which is staying

Richard454

John also sent me some pics on the T5 conversion and I have then here on my photobucket -T5 folder

http://s51.photobucket.com/user/Rich...?sort=3&page=1


I found mine for $300...spent $25-30 on RTV -paint - some cap head hex bolts and a seal as it was in great shape. There are SEVERAL Youtubes out there on buying and going through them.

Modded and made my own trans bracket- used the stock mechanical clutch, shortened the driveshaft and modded up a shifter from a 03-4 Mustang Cobra.

I had the engine out- so I didn't even have to mod the xmember.

So I'm all in for $500-600.

John 65

That looks great Richard, beautiful work as always. Enjoy the holiday.

gkull

The TQ handling ability is the major concern. The T-5 is wimpy. It came stock in a 80's trans-am I owned. I've owned several tremec 5 speeds in my ford 4X4's and now my vette.

I would search for used tremecs before a wimpy t-5

AboveTheLogic

I chose the T56 over a 5-speed for 3 main reasons:

• I thought I could do it cheaper than a SST 5-speed kit. Sure its cheaper dollar wise, but not time wise.
• I live in the southwest where you can cruise at 80-100mph on the freeways
• I like the idea of running a 3.90+ rear gear and banging through gears at lower speeds (i.e. autocross track) and still bringing freeway RPMs down at high speeds

If none of these things are appealing to you, you may be happier with a 5-speed. I remember being quite satisfied with the highway RPMs of my old '94 Camaro auto... IIRC it was 2,500-3,000 in OD from 70mph-95mph (approx).

gkull

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aw...FYRrfgodY04HOw

AboveTheLogic

I suppose I should have also listed that I came across a really clean T56 for $1k. If not for that, I'm not sure what I would have ended up doing. Maybe would have just repaired my 4-speed.

cv67

If you can get a T56 in good shape for 1k youre doing Ok. They are getting scarcer (at least nice ones).

Bought a spare with a few hun miles on it and a Viper input shaft just in case.

Sweet setup would be fitting a ZF6 those transmissions are incredibly strong, few members here running high 8s and 9s on original ones never been cracked open. Finding a good one is tough, yrs ago you could buy them NOS for $1500. Heavy but who cares.

The old Camaro and 5 spds wont take a huge shockload. Seen a few get away with it, roll of the dice I guess.

Wonder if the late 90/2000ish S-10 or Silverado 5 speeds are stronger

AboveTheLogic

You talking about the truck ZF6 trans with the 5.79 granny gear?

Luce

Here's my little 2cents

I have a T56 magnum in the my Cobra (427, 3.55 gears, close ratio T56). I only use 6th if I want to stay out of trouble on the interstate at 75 mph. It's droning on at 1900 RPM there without break 'em loose torque.

If ti was my money and headache, I would look for a TKO 500 if you're not putting it behind a 600 ft-lb beast. One with the .8x OD, not the .6x. The drop to 5th with the .6 whatever OD makes the OD inconvenient.

The T56 is HUGE. People say they've fitted them in, but seriously, they're huge. In hind site, I like having the bragging rights of having a 6 speed, but I rarely use 6th.

For now, I stayed with the Muncie on my '72. If the wife shreds it with the new 383, I'll look at the options. I don't see a lot of long highway cruises to bother with a change now.

flyeri

I have a TKO600 .64 od behind a zz454 and a 3.55 rear gear. The zz will lug it along at 45-50mph and 1400-1500 rpms with no problem. My previous engine had a much bigger cam and was not happy at that rpm. It liked 1700 at a minimum or it would just not run smooth. I think the .82 5th gear is appropriate with higher than 3.55 rear and .64 if your gear is lower than 3.55. Either seems to work well with the 3.55.

bmans vette

I bought several WC (World Class) T5's as I was accumulating my parts but then my hp and tq plans went up and I saw all the threads on here and LS1Tech about T56's out of late 90's Camaros.
I had decided to go with a 4.11 rear (like my old 67 Camaro) and knew that I needed a 2.5's first gear.
So I found a T56 in FL on ebay at a good price $900 + shipping last year.
Snatched it up.

NOW.....here is where the story gets good.....the guy took it (empty) to UPS to box and ship. He also took out insurance on it for the $900.

UPS did a crappy job packing it and when it showed up it was partially hanging out of the box.
Upon further inspection the tailshaft housing was caved in where the shifter mounts but no other issues.

I offered UPS to just replace that part (about $200 new).

They don't do partial refunds.

They sent me my full $900 and told me to keep it.

YEEHAW!

Got a new rear housing for $200 and sent the seller some money to share the windfall.

Still collecting the parts to do an upgrade and convert it to a LS1 hydraulic setup.

Sold both the T5's at a small profit.

cv67

ZF6 I was referring to was offered in the 89-96 C4 89 black tag being the more popular (rest were blue tag)those trannies can take a lifetime of pounding
Would bet its stronger than my current T56 wtih upgraded parts. Next round the Z06 type gearset would be the hot ticket dont care for the .05 6th little tall but still cant complain better than the old T350/stall deal.

4+3 in earlier ones wouldnt bother with