When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
REV KIT ADAPTERS for NOTCHED HYD ROLLER LIFTERS
(See associated Diagram for Detailed Description)
These adapters allow the use of a standard hydraulic roller lifter rev kit with notched lifters, like Howard’s Max Effort Lifters for SBC (where the tab holding the lifter connecting bar is about .750" higher than the main lifter body. I have not seen them for sale anywhere, I am positive they are not made by any companies. I have been using them in my engine for several weeks, and they function perfectly. I recently took off the intake manifold so I could check them. They are still in perfect condition, after many 6500+ RPM shifts. I made them by hand, using a tubing cutter to cut the adapter pieces to rough length, and a hand file and sand paper to achieve finished lengths. I used a hack saw to cut out the side of the aluminum outer piece #1, to clear the raised tab on the lifter. I made all measurements with a dial caliper. Making sixteen sets took some time, but cost almost nothing, so it was well worth the effort. They give me at least an extra 500 RPM, and act to hold the lifters to the cam in case of valve train failure.
Adapter piece #1: Aluminum tubing. OD equals OD of Lifter Body. Length equals Height of raised tab on Lifter to which the Connecter Bar Attaches. Notch along one side equal to width of raised tab on lifter body.
Adapter piece #2: Steel tubing. OD equals ID of adapter piece #1, ID is not too important (as thin a wall as possible). Length equals distance from bottom of rev kit piece (as installed on piece #1) to the circlip that holds the inner piston into the body of the lifter. A hole is drilled to clear the rivet that holds the connecting bar to the lifter body.
Piece #2 fits inside piece #1. Piece #2 is used to positively locate piece #1 in place on lifter body. Piece #1 is tack welded in two places to the rev kit lifter cup, to prevent spread under compression during operation, since the aluminum tubing is cut along one side, creating a sort of “C” shape when viewed from the end of the tube.
When assembled with the rev kit springs in the engine, the adapters are under constant compression, and cannot jump out of place. The steel inner piece #2 drops below the outer lifter body and rides on top of the lifter circlip, which is at least .050" lower than the outer lifter wall. The top of steel inner piece #2 is contained by the rev kit lifter cup, which is welded to the aluminum outer piece #1, so it cannot move up or down enough to dislocate from the lifter body.
I have to be honest...adding home grown parts to the reciprocating portions of my valvetrain down in the bowels of the engine where they can do a great deal of damage if they fail...especially when their pending failure could go unnoticed for some time since they don't have a direct impact on 'regular' engine function...all adds up to give me a huge case of the heebie-jeebies.
I have a Comp rev kit on my Comp solid roller lifters...how does this alteration differ from what you can buy from Comp, for example? I'm asking because I don't know, not to be a smarty pants...
I have to be honest...adding home grown parts to the reciprocating portions of my valvetrain down in the bowels of the engine where they can do a great deal of damage if they fail...especially when their pending failure could go unnoticed for some time since they don't have a direct impact on 'regular' engine function...all adds up to give me a huge case of the heebie-jeebies.
I have a Comp rev kit on my Comp solid roller lifters...how does this alteration differ from what you can buy from Comp, for example? I'm asking because I don't know, not to be a smarty pants...
All currently available rev kits for hyd rollers are made to fit into the top of a lifter body that is flat around the 360 degrees of circumference. Some high perf hyd lifters are made with a "tab" sticking up above the area of the lifter where the pushrod cup is. For reference, look up Howard's Max Effort hyd roller lifters, and note the shape of the top, where the connecting bar is attached. That will show you the difference between the lifters you are using and the ones I have.
As far as your worry about having home made parts in your valvetrain, don't worry- you don't have them in yours. I however am confident enough in my mechanical engineering skills to feel safe with what I have done. And, I have been running these for 8 weeks now. Just removed the intake to check them, and they are still perfect.
I just wanted to offer a tried and true option for those who wish to try it. Really think about it for a minute, and reference to my diagram and description. With these adapters under constant compression, how do you think they could "fall off"?
Thanks for your input. That is exactly why I posted this.
Last edited by myohpe@gmail.com; 06-07-2016 at 01:19 PM.
Here is a photo of my valvetrain with the rev kit and adapters in place. I don't know if you can see the adapters very well from this shot, but hopefully it gives an idea of what I have been trying to explain.
Here is a photo comparison of standard vs notched lifters, to help explain why what I did was necessary in order to use a rev kit on my notched lifters.
I used to own a '96 Z/28, which had a "second generation" LT1. Like any other "gearhead", I did some work on the car during my 19 years of ownership, and during that time, I saw where somebody DID make a "rev-kit" for it, similar to the one you describe. It was made by one of the better known cam companies, but I don't remember who, at this time. It was made to work with the OE hydraulic roller lifters.
I used to own a '96 Z/28, which had a "second generation" LT1. Like any other "gearhead", I did some work on the car during my 19 years of ownership, and during that time, I saw where somebody DID make a "rev-kit" for it, similar to the one you describe. It was made by one of the better known cam companies, but I don't remember who, at this time. It was made to work with the OE hydraulic roller lifters.
The Gen 2 came with roller lifters from the factory, and used the "flat top" lifters with "dog bone"(figure 8) style links with a sheet metal plate to hold them down. They were not "notched" style, like some of the Gen 1 retrofit lifters. Because of that, the way the rev kit seated into the top of the lifter was the same as the flat tot retro lifters, but with an extended aluminum "cup" because they are shorter in height. This photo shows how they look.
30 years ago rev kits were popular on solid roller builds. Just in case you had push rod, rocker arm stud, or rocker arm failure.
With the advent of modern quality parts and technology rev kits are kind of no longer required. Using lite weight valves, retainers, and proper springs to eliminate spring surge and or valve float past the intended motor red line.
I do concede that your rev kit has some value with the heavy H-roller lifters because you are adding spring weight to the body of the lifter and not compressing the push rod.
In building H-roller motors I kind of limit the spring pressure to @ 150 pounds
I'm with Mr. Gkull. You need to start getting pretty far outside the normal parameters of a modern hydraulic roller for it to lose contact with the cam.
I added a rev kit to my solid roller build since I was using a high lift, long duration cam with very aggressive ramps. A rev kit in my situation is 'belt and suspenders' over the 160# of seat pressure. I'm not using any particularly lightweight components in my valvetrain.
But a hydraulic roller is a little different. With the cushion built within the roller, as I said, you need to be doing something really crazy to 'outrun' the lifter and have the roller lose contact.
I guess there's no real negative effect. I just question the gain being as this particular mode of failure (lifter crashing) is not a significant risk in a hydraulic roller so long as the spring pressure is sufficient for the cam, the engine is not over-revved, and the lash is appropriately set...well built, well tuned, and well utilized, is what I mean.
Here is a photo comparison of standard vs notched lifters, to help explain why what I did was necessary in order to use a rev kit on my notched lifters.
The lifter pictured as a Std lifter is a Morel. By the tie bar it is for an LS. The LS, SBC, and BBC all have the same body, the only difference is the tie bar design. The ultra pro hydraulic roller lifter from Morel in conjunction with a well thought out valve train are stable at 7500+ rpm and will make power. In an LS platform with light valve train and a 55MM core the lifters have been north of 8000 rpm.
My point is if you are wanting to make power in the higher rpm range a quality lifter is all you need.
The Gen 2 came with roller lifters from the factory, and used the "flat top" lifters with "dog bone"(figure 8) style links with a sheet metal plate to hold them down. They were not "notched" style, like some of the Gen 1 retrofit lifters. Because of that, the way the rev kit seated into the top of the lifter was the same as the flat tot retro lifters, but with an extended aluminum "cup" because they are shorter in height. This photo shows how they look.
I'm aware of this, and the picture you posted (which didn't appear, when I "copied" this post) shows a stock SBC with hydraulic lifters. I'm talking about an AFR kit, which appears to have been made/sold a number of years ago (late 1990s-early 2000s). There's an e-bay link, which I couldn't get to copy here, of one of these that's for sale. Doing a Google search, shows that there were problems with the second batch that AFR made, and between the demise of the LT1, and their issues with the product, they stopped making them.....
The lifter pictured as a Std lifter is a Morel. By the tie bar it is for an LS. The LS, SBC, and BBC all have the same body, the only difference is the tie bar design. The ultra pro hydraulic roller lifter from Morel in conjunction with a well thought out valve train are stable at 7500+ rpm and will make power. In an LS platform with light valve train and a 55MM core the lifters have been north of 8000 rpm.
My point is if you are wanting to make power in the higher rpm range a quality lifter is all you need.
Pardon my delayed reply, been away for awhile. I was using the pictured lifters to highlight the difference in the shape of the top of the lifters between the two types. Nothing to do with LS vs Gen1. However, the Morel site lists their Ultra Pro Hyd lifters as 7000 RPM capability, and I would bet they are quite pricey. The only Ultra Pro lifters I can find actually for sale are from Crane Cams, and are solids. My point is that for Gen1 retrofit hyd lifters, the two styles sold look similar to those I pictured. If I don't want to spend nearly $900 for a set of lifters, the best performing retrofit hyd rollers usually come as the notched type to save weight. Even accounting for the cost of the rev kit, my combination costs much less than some exotic lifter, that still remains unprotected from lost contact with the cam lobe due to valve train failure. As an additional benefit of adding a rev kit, you get increased RPM capability because the rev kit springs put pressure on the lifter body, not the plunger like stronger valve springs would do. That leaves the valve spring to control the valves alone, increasing their RPM ability. Not everybody can afford to build their engines with hollow valves, titanium retainers, and $900+ lifters. To achieve a similar result for much less money, I chose the pieces that I listed. This combination has served me well, and I saved major coin, just by being creative and making a few of my own parts. I was a tool and die maker before I was forced to retire due to a disability. I am very confidant in my ability to design and build parts like these. Social Security does not pay well, so I am inclined to find ways to save money where I can. But I do not want to sacrifice the performance of my engine. My whole point in presenting this idea was to offer people in a similar budget situation and who also are capable of accurately producing their own custom parts, an alternative to spending a huge amount of money for an additional 500-1000 RPMs on top. Some hyd cam profiles can benefit from the added 500 RPMs.
Pardon my delayed reply, been away for awhile. I was using the pictured lifters to highlight the difference in the shape of the top of the lifters between the two types. Nothing to do with LS vs Gen1. However, the Morel site lists their Ultra Pro Hyd lifters as 7000 RPM capability, and I would bet they are quite pricey. The only Ultra Pro lifters I can find actually for sale are from Crane Cams, and are solids. My point is that for Gen1 retrofit hyd lifters, the two styles sold look similar to those I pictured. If I don't want to spend nearly $900 for a set of lifters, the best performing retrofit hyd rollers usually come as the notched type to save weight. Even accounting for the cost of the rev kit, my combination costs much less than some exotic lifter, that still remains unprotected from lost contact with the cam lobe due to valve train failure. As an additional benefit of adding a rev kit, you get increased RPM capability because the rev kit springs put pressure on the lifter body, not the plunger like stronger valve springs would do. That leaves the valve spring to control the valves alone, increasing their RPM ability. Not everybody can afford to build their engines with hollow valves, titanium retainers, and $900+ lifters. To achieve a similar result for much less money, I chose the pieces that I listed. This combination has served me well, and I saved major coin, just by being creative and making a few of my own parts. I was a tool and die maker before I was forced to retire due to a disability. I am very confidant in my ability to design and build parts like these. Social Security does not pay well, so I am inclined to find ways to save money where I can. But I do not want to sacrifice the performance of my engine. My whole point in presenting this idea was to offer people in a similar budget situation and who also are capable of accurately producing their own custom parts, an alternative to spending a huge amount of money for an additional 500-1000 RPMs on top. Some hyd cam profiles can benefit from the added 500 RPMs.
Sir being in mfg, distribution, and sales in this industry for a few years I can tell you 100% certainty that just because a lifter is "notched" doesn't mean its a better design. Many "notched" lifters are straight from China and with a quick check of some dimensions one will find pure junk.
Now I applaud your enginuity having a hydraulic roller lifter stable at high rpm has quite a bit to do with the internals of the lifter. Morel has worked on their design since 2003 with the last major modification coming in 2013. These lifter are around $750 and are well worth the money. The feature live axles and .750" wheels. Most hyd roller lifters have swedged axles and .700" wheel. Since 90% of the hyd roller lobe profiles are designed for .750" wheel you get better performance results. If the lobe is designed for .700" wheel then the lifters work fine, but lobes like this are designed for low rpm function something under 6500 rpm.
Everyone has a budget I understand that, but doing it twice can be much more expensive then doing it right the first time.
Sir being in mfg, distribution, and sales in this industry for a few years I can tell you 100% certainty that just because a lifter is "notched" doesn't mean its a better design. Many "notched" lifters are straight from China and with a quick check of some dimensions one will find pure junk.
Now I applaud your enginuity having a hydraulic roller lifter stable at high rpm has quite a bit to do with the internals of the lifter. Morel has worked on their design since 2003 with the last major modification coming in 2013. These lifter are around $750 and are well worth the money. The feature live axles and .750" wheels. Most hyd roller lifters have swedged axles and .700" wheel. Since 90% of the hyd roller lobe profiles are designed for .750" wheel you get better performance results. If the lobe is designed for .700" wheel then the lifters work fine, but lobes like this are designed for low rpm function something under 6500 rpm.
Everyone has a budget I understand that, but doing it twice can be much more expensive then doing it right the first time.
Perhaps I need to clarify my meaning. I in no way was stating that the notched style lifters are superior to the flat top style. They are just two different designs. That said, it seems that most of the hyd roller lifters sold as "high RPM" capable are notched. The reason is simple: weight . Retro fit hyd rollers are heavy due to their height. In order to lose some weight, and hence provide for inherently higher RPM capability, they are notched. I know there are many Chinese imports around now, but that has nothing to do with the point I was making. It seems that many of the replies to my original post are missing the point. So, my actual lifters are Howard's Max Effort retro fit hyd rollers. They are made for them my Morel. They achieve their higher RPM capability through a combination of closer tolerances and lower weight. This information comes straight from the mouth of a Howard's technical service employee with whom I spoke. I would really appreciate seeing a high RPM retrofit hyd roller lifter currently for sale that is not a notched type. It seems it's weight would be a detriment to it's high RPM capability. I hope the above helps to clarify my reason for making these adapters in the first place. If I could have found some suitable quality lifters to fit my application that didn't require these adapters in order to use the rev kit, I might have gotten them instead. BTW, I didn't do anything twice. My design, applied to these lifters and the above mentioned rev kit worked perfectly from the beginning. And after over two months, they are still working great. I can pull over 7000 RPMs without any signs of valve float. And I have the safety to protect the cam and lifters in case of valve train failure. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
Last edited by myohpe@gmail.com; 06-17-2016 at 11:14 AM.
The first Morel link you included is for big block lifters.
The second link is for small block, but they are $800 a set. And, I would still want to use a rev kit for insurance against valvetrain failure. So what's the advantage?
Last edited by myohpe@gmail.com; 06-17-2016 at 11:39 AM.
BBC lifters are larger diameter. LS1 are shorter, due to a redesigned "dog bone" link.
I am closing my involvement in this thread. There is nothing more of import to discuss. I did it. It works. I saved money. End of story. If you don't like it, you are free to ignore my idea.
06-07-2016, 10:56 AM
Rev Kit Adapters for SBC retrofit lifters
