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Clutch & Pressure plate ?

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Old 06-10-2016, 09:21 PM
  #21  
Dale760
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Originally Posted by gkull
How i came about Sachs clutch and pp was from Keisler back when they were still alive.

I bought the tko 600 kit with block saver plate, blow proof bell housing, sfi rated 22 pound steel 11 inch 168 tooth. I had told them that I had a 650 hp 427 sbc motown block SR doing 7500 rpm.

The nearly $5000 dollar kit came with the Sachs ....... I was skeptical and bought the 1000 hp handling DFX or what ever rating,,,,,, It uses weights and rpm to increase clamping force. I was out road racing and it never seemed right. It was more of a pro street idea.

So I broke my Bill Mitchel motown 427 crank shaft and
had it bored to 434 because of damage. i went to a custom cam of my design with a 4/7 swap firing order and put in the Sachs clutch/ pp. years of road racing and drag strip runs



i have been very happy

Hi George

It will nice finally meeting you in person today, and enjoyed the visit. Hope you can make the car show next Saturday.

I forgot to show you the dyno room .......... next time !

Dale
Old 06-11-2016, 10:00 AM
  #22  
Garys 68
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Just a couple notes.
First off fix the throwout bearing and get the fork geometry correct.
If it was simply a disengagement issue or bell alignment issue the input shaft would keep turning and you would get grinding while putting it in gear, especially noticable 1st and reverse.
Since there's only an issue in a couple gears, I suspect it's your shift rod adjustment. I don't recall how the Richmond d works, but in muncies and T10s, there's an interlock mechanism in the side cover that prevents you from shifting into 2 gears at the same time.
If the 5/6 rod is too long or short, you'll have issues with 1/2 and 3/4 gear shifting. Reverse does not have an interlock.
Old 06-11-2016, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Nevada Silver
Hi George

It will nice finally meeting you in person today, and enjoyed the visit. Hope you can make the car show next Saturday.

I forgot to show you the dyno room .......... next time !

Dale
Really a nice 200 mile round trip the way I went. Motor just purrs along at 205 degrees. I use a high flow slant 195 degree thermostat. I was using a stock diameter water pump pulley and do to the lower rpm cruise in .64 OD I need my smaller diameter pulley to drive the pump faster. Race aluminum pumps don't flow much at low rpm.

I'll be back over soon! Seeing your drag bikes made me want to ride one again

Last edited by gkull; 06-11-2016 at 07:57 PM.
Old 06-11-2016, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Garys 68
Just a couple notes.
First off fix the throwout bearing and get the fork geometry correct.
If it was simply a disengagement issue or bell alignment issue the input shaft would keep turning and you would get grinding while putting it in gear, especially noticable 1st and reverse.
Since there's only an issue in a couple gears, I suspect it's your shift rod adjustment. I don't recall how the Richmond d works, but in muncies and T10s, there's an interlock mechanism in the side cover that prevents you from shifting into 2 gears at the same time.
If the 5/6 rod is too long or short, you'll have issues with 1/2 and 3/4 gear shifting. Reverse does not have an interlock.

I will pull it back out in couple weeks Gary to fix the throw out bearing and take a close look at the clutch. If you mean shift linkage adjustment, I spent a good 3 to 4 hours last week removing the cross member, speedo cable and have it adjusted perfect. In neutral the pin slides in and out by hand with zero force. Ran it through the gears static 5 to 6 times them put the pin in and out a few times after adjusting. Also none of the rods are contacting each other.

How else do you adjust the linkage !

1st and reverse has zero grinding when putting it in gear.


Today I tried to seal up a new flare fitting on the return line from the power steering pump to the control valve, what a PITA , It will have to come all back apart tomorrow. I may have to replace the control valve if I cant stop it from leaking. I even took and old line end that was on the car and lightly lapped it into the brass seat in the valve.

New rebuilt pump and every line is new, went about a block and then no power steering. I think I may have some crap in the control valve, but I better try adjusting it first.


I also think I'm cursed


I did take the car for a short 6 to 8 mile test drive, with my fork push rod extended 1 " as a test, and all the play taken out of the clutch pedal. Its better for sure, but of course the throw out bearing may not be pushing on all the pressure plate fingers evenly. It up shifts now to 2nd and 4th, smooth ? not really but better. It still dead heads in those two gears >> meaning will not down shift.


1st I need to get the power steering working so I can at least drive it to the car show next Saturday in town here.

I'm not a happy camper since I have allot on my plate in general.

Thanks DW

Last edited by Dale760; 06-11-2016 at 11:55 PM.
Old 06-11-2016, 10:58 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by gkull
Really a nice 200 mile round trip the way I went. Motor just purrs along at 205 degrees. I use a high flow slant 195 degree thermostat. I was using a stock diameter water pump pulley and do to the lower rpm cruise in .64 OD I need my smaller diameter pulley to drive the pump faster. Race aluminum pumps don't flow much at low rpm.

I'll be back over soon! Seeing your drag bikes made me want to ride one again


Always thinking G .....

Yeah me to about my race bike, but it sure looks good sitting there all pretty and not broken ....ha ha

Cheers Dale
Old 12-05-2016, 01:09 AM
  #26  
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Default Richmond 6 speed wont shift

Hi Guys

After several months of going to hell and back with my NOS Richmond .80 top gear 6 speed.

But I finally won the war !!!!!!

It shifted notchy and would not down shift from 5th to 4th or 3rd to 2nd. It would just block out or hit a brick wall.

I had the trans in and out 4 times, new TO bearing, checked bell housing, drilled housing to measure air gap, removed again and installed adjustable pivot ball. Another new clutch and surfaced flywheel. Made different length clutch fork rods.

Sent the ROD shift linage, that was brand new back to Long Machining and they checked it all for me at no charge, and it was perfect !

It still would not shift. I was so pissed, I was about to put the 4 speed back in the car.

I asked Chris at Long who he knew that has been in Richmond's and new them inside and out. I could have done the job, but did not want to being up to my eye ***** every day with my shop. Id rather pay and expert that knows these transmission.

He gave me DeLynn Masons number in TX. He did me a favor and agreed to take a look at it for me, so I made a nice crate and sent it off to him UPS ground.

Once he pulled it part it all looked new, well it should since it is.Then he told me, Dale I think I found the problem.

Richmond left out a snap ring on the main shaft on one side of the number 307 bearing ........ Way to go Idiots at Richmond !

DeLynn told me this is a first after 16 + years of having them apart.

This allowed the shaft to drift .050 to .060 front to back in the case and jam up the shift cam ramps and plungers.

He also de burred and polished the shift cam ramps, and did the same with the plungers. He sent me photos of the shift ramps, and what a terrible crude casting from the factory. Just terrible !

After he had it a few months I finally got it back in the car today and it now shifts like it should. A bit stiff and needs break in, but that's it.

Thank You God !

I will fine tune the fork rod length, make a nice plug for the bell housing inspection hole, and finally move onto my new power steering set up.

What a pain in the royal butt this new Richmond trans was, but finally better days are ahead at least.

Cheers ...... Dale in Yerington NV
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:41 PM
  #27  
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I'm glad that you got it done. Since my Vette has no heater i don't drive it much this time of the year. but i do want to come back over and see your dyno room

George
Old 12-05-2016, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gkull
I'm glad that you got it done. Since my Vette has no heater i don't drive it much this time of the year. but i do want to come back over and see your dyno room

George


Hi George

A couple months ago I was on the dyno allot with two new Suzuki's Ive been working on. Now its the refrigerator room .... LOL !

I have a new 2017 Camaro SS 1LE on order so maybe you can come over for another visit when I get the new car.

Cheers Dale
Old 12-05-2016, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Nevada Silver
Hi George

A couple months ago I was on the dyno allot with two new Suzuki's Ive been working on. Now its the refrigerator room .... LOL !



Cheers Dale

Do you test at Sacramento Infinion or Fallon NHRA drag strips? I'd like to meet up and see what you are doing. Do you talk to Karen stouffer. sp?
Old 12-05-2016, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by gkull
Do you test at Sacramento Infinion or Fallon NHRA drag strips? I'd like to meet up and see what you are doing. Do you talk to Karen stouffer. sp?

I went out and played at Fallon a couple times last year but that's it. Gary and Karen I believe moved back east or are there most of the time now.


Tell me did they do any or many car track days at Fernley this year ? I sure didn't see them out there to often.

D
Old 12-06-2016, 12:10 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Nevada Silver
I went out and played at Fallon a couple times last year but that's it. Gary and Karen I believe moved back east or are there most of the time now.


Tell me did they do any or many car track days at Fernley this year ? I sure didn't see them out there to often.

D
Fernley/Reno track road racing closed I took all the stickers off my Vette and have not run a drag bike in years. I always liked the non wheely bar bikes vs my 7.60 turbo Just 10 or 11 second rice street bikes. You can drive them around every day and ride to the track. Have friends with the pop up tent and just throw on a slick. enjoy the day
Old 12-06-2016, 07:07 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gkull
How i came about Sachs clutch and pp was from Keisler back when they were still alive.

I bought the tko 600 kit with block saver plate, blow proof bell housing, sfi rated 22 pound steel 11 inch 168 tooth. I had told them that I had a 650 hp 427 sbc motown block SR doing 7500 rpm.

The nearly $5000 dollar kit came with the Sachs ....... I was skeptical and bought the 1000 hp handling DFX or what ever rating,,,,,, It uses weights and rpm to increase clamping force. I was out road racing and it never seemed right. It was more of a pro street idea.

So I broke my Bill Mitchel motown 427 crank shaft and
had it bored to 434 because of damage. i went to a custom cam of my design with a 4/7 swap firing order and put in the Sachs clutch/ pp. years of road racing and drag strip runs



i have been very happy
I've just fitted a Sach clutch in mine, the LUK wasn't available in UK, haven't driven it yet as I'm changing diff ratio and a few other jobs while it's in winter lay up.
Graham
Old 12-06-2016, 11:26 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Grahamred70
I've just fitted a Sach clutch in mine, the LUK wasn't available in UK, haven't driven it yet as I'm changing diff ratio and a few other jobs while it's in winter lay up.
Graham
Is your Sach clutch and pressure plate the 11 inch 26 spline for a 168 tooth fly wheel? If it is what is the part number?
Old 12-06-2016, 11:41 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by gkull
Fernley/Reno track road racing closed I took all the stickers off my Vette and have not run a drag bike in years. I always liked the non wheely bar bikes vs my 7.60 turbo Just 10 or 11 second rice street bikes. You can drive them around every day and ride to the track. Have friends with the pop up tent and just throw on a slick. enjoy the day

Hi G

I thought the Fernley road course may have gone under, what a shame. I have allot of fun just going out and making some mid 10 second passes out at the Fallen track. Just brings back old memories. I wish I kept my old GS 1500 pro street bike, that I won the number one plate on from the early 90s. That would have been a fun one to take out now and then. Hopefully Fallen is not the next track to be on the chopping block to close down.

Some day when I don't have to work every day, and if the tracks still there I plan on building a no wheelie bar bike that will at least run in the 8s out there. The track over a 1/2 second slow as you may know.

Cheers DW
Old 12-06-2016, 12:43 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Nevada Silver
Thanks bmans


BUT IM FIRED ! LOL

Well I hate to admit it guys since I've been doing this stuff for many years, but after looking close I may have made a dumb mistake. I'm not positive since it hard to see in there with it together, but I may in fact have the fork spring clips on the back of the throw out bearing. I think I can see the top one, which is not good. I do know I would have not put one in front and the other on the back.

Just getting senile I guess at 59 ......... ha ha

So this does explain not getting fill clutch release without more push, but it does not explain why when relaxed the fork will not pivot enough to get the bearing off the pressure plate fingers.

I did not measure them or anything like that, but did not notice anything strange when I had it in front of me and it worked flawless with the 4 speed. But the throw out bearing was starting to be dried out and worn with very low miles on it, so it was most likely touching the fingers, and the clutch pedal had plenty of free play.


I'm looking at clutch kits in this price range, keep in mind this is not a real high horsepower application and at the most even with a cam swap will be at best 400 hp. I wont power shift or beat the crap out of it, but will get on it and go through the gears. I want it to be a good street clutch with smooth engagement.


Have any of you used any of these clutches, I know opinions can vary

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mc...model/corvette


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ra...model/corvette


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ra...model/corvette


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mc...model/corvette

Thanks Dale
I have the McLeod 75121 and it is working great. I have similar engine (vortec).
Jim
Old 12-06-2016, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jim-81
I have the McLeod 75121 and it is working great. I have similar engine (vortec).
Jim

That's the exact clutch I went with Jim. It works nice, but to be honest the one I removed had plenty of life left in it. I also had a local engine builder I know do a beautiful job on a light re surfacing of the flywheel.

This had zero to do with the poor quality control on my brand new never installed Richmond 6 speed though that was the shifting problem all along.

Thanks Dale
Old 12-06-2016, 11:59 PM
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Glad you got it sorted! I've had similar problems in the past resulting in me pulling an engine and box half a dozen times (was a 5 speed gearbox conversion in an MG Midget), and it really gets old fast.

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Old 12-07-2016, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gkull
Is your Sach clutch and pressure plate the 11 inch 26 spline for a 168 tooth fly wheel? If it is what is the part number?
Yes that's the one, had to change it as went from a 10 spline input to a 26 when I upgraded the front bearing, I'll try to find the number when I get home tonight.
The number on the box is KT5552-26, the clutch and gearbox are all back in the car so not sure how many teeth on the flywheel.
Graham

Last edited by Grahamred70; 12-08-2016 at 08:43 AM.
Old 12-08-2016, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Metalhead140
Glad you got it sorted! I've had similar problems in the past resulting in me pulling an engine and box half a dozen times (was a 5 speed gearbox conversion in an MG Midget), and it really gets old fast.

Thanks 140,

It looks like I finally have it figured out and it should get better with normal break in. Im going to run Brad Penn for a bit, then dump it and try Redline MT-90. I think Richmonds with the big heavy gears can benefit with MT-90.

Getting old is an understatement, I was close to taking this trans out to the desert and use it for target practice with my AK-47

Dale
Old 12-08-2016, 12:17 PM
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My current clutch, and flywheel after surfacing.
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