The13Bats

I agree that the stock fan and shroud is better than under rated electric fans, single or dual....

BLUE1972

Here is my setup with a STOCK radiator. Works with a 400hp roller 350.

All seals are installed .. and the chin spoiler (thin black plastic)

The 16 is on a 175 stat, the 2 - 8" are on a 190. On the highway none usually run, the 16 runs in Stop and Go, the 2-8" rarely turn on.

Five Oh

So if I look in to upgrading electric fan or fans. What CFM range should I be in?

The13Bats

That is a good question and I went with some of the big names in fans, I called several and several after market radiator makers and of course not all agree, actually the fan companies are pretty darn close but for a small v8 you need like 3000-3500 cfm, but there will be variables for example lets say vehicle X would cool with lets say radiator Y and a fan of 3000 cfm if the radiator is larger than needed then while it still needs air flow to cool it's more forgiving, I have seen this on cars that have big nice radiators like a dewitts or becool or the largest champion and smaller cfm fans than I would have thought would cool the car yet the person reports it cools just fine, and by the time people step up the things like aftermarket radiators and fans the engine isn't stock.

I am an advocate of not broken don't fix it, if you have a good stock clutch fan and shroud it will cool it no guessing.

c3_dk

I wouldn't mind buying a Champion Radiator, it would be min. 3 row, and some of the money I would have saved compared to Be-cool or others, would I use on a good quality fan setup.

Five Oh

Got the radiator installed and this thing is much bigger then what I had at first. I barely got it in there. I went ahead and installed one electric fan and I am waiting on the mounting kit for the 2nd fan. In the mean time I kept the belt driven fan on but without the shroud bc it wouldn't fit back in there. Only other option was cut the shroud in half and put it in as two pieces. Think without the shroud it is a waste to have the belt driven fan on?

Haven't had a chance to test drive it yet. Will hopefully do that tomorrow or this weekend sometime. Keeping my fingers crossed that it cools much better. Also replaced the thermostat just be sure it was working as it should.

augiedoggy

the shroud would have fit, I fought with mine for an hour and thought the same thing about cutting it and then realised theres a trick to getting them in. once I figured it out I got it in without issues. sorry but I dont remember what I did exactly to get it in..

The13Bats

the stock belt fan with no shroud will do very little, not 100% wasted but close...

Five Oh

With the two electric fans mounted it is ok to leave the stock shroud out? What about the giant gap at the very bottom between the rad and motor? Seems like it would let air in and not force through the rad.

augiedoggy

My uncle bought a 76 last year and the kid who replaced the engine put 2 electric fans in with no shroud. the car does not like to sit while running or the temp does in fact keep climbing which tells me the 2 fans without the shroud are not effective ENOUGH to keep the temps in check.

Now my uncles car appears to have a 2 row rad and I believe they are dual 14" fans... theres a lot of factors here that may allow a similar setup to work better. his is a stick with no transmission cooler for one thing.


I have the champion 3 row and due to the shroud with my electric fans not fitting I decided to install the original fan and shroud after the rad was in the car and I can tell you that at least a factory 74 shroud does fit fine and can be installed with the 3 row champion.

The13Bats

I doesn't matter if a kid or a long time tech installs electric fans if they are not enough cfm to cool the engine it's not the fans fault,

this type electric fan,



has built in shrouds, if they are enough cfm they will cool the engine many people have great luck with them,

The places on the radiator they do not cover is not used as effectively as if they were covered not totally wasted but not used very well.

So if changing back to stock fan and shroud cures a cooling problem then the fans were likely too small a cfm.

augiedoggy

I'm not arguing with what your saying but The larger fan pictured looks like one of the two my uncle has in his 76.
The shroud on those fans pictured are limited to about an inch or two larger than the fan which means the fan is only effectively using the part of the radiator its covering that is not really a very good shroud in itself.
An actual full shroud like the oem ones utilize the entire radiator surface area and therefore effectively increasing cooling capacity. The fact that the radiator does work on my uncles car and temps are managable unless he leaves it sitting and running would indicate to me that the fans are not effective enough... now I dont doubt more cfm pulled by the fan would help but so would a shroud that would actually pull air from the entire rad surface increasing cooling surface area that way.

The13Bats

Well thank you...



I have been saying that in just about every fan/radiator thread that pops up,
I got flamed and bashed for saying that radiator that isn't in the fans air flow is more less wasted,
I use the dual fans on a shroud that covers almost 100% of the radiator, so I do not waste any of the pricey radiator I sprang for,
I have seen a member who used a serving tray to make a full shroud for electric fans like in the picture and it works well,

I believe some people have electric fans that are not really enough cfm like the dual 11 spals that do keep their car cool because they have them on oversized aftermarket overkill radiators

If your uncles car runs cool going down the street and only overheats at idle then it is an air flow issue at idle if it also overheats at speeds then it's could still be air flow but much more likely the radiator is too small.

Five Oh

OK so I have the 2 12" electric fans that came with the rad installed along with the clutch fan and no stock shroud. I just test ran it and it seems to be staying in the 210-215 area which is only slightly better than the stock rad and clutch fan. Now it is 78 degrees right now and during the day it gets in the upper 90s so I'm concerned it will be right back where I was with the stock radiator. I replaced the thermostat while I was installing so I know that works. It appears to run higher while at highway speeds 60-75mph. I have the rad seals in as well...

The fans I'm running claim 1740cfm total. I'm looking at buying better fans from derale two 12"s that says 1300ish cfm per fan so 2600cfm total. Is that my best bet or a single 16" fan that claims 3000cfm. Other question is should I just buy a dual fan kit with the aluminum shroud attached? Assuming you just find one that is around the same dimensions as the surface of the radiator?

What's the chance of my water pump being bad??

augiedoggy

whats the temp on your thremostat? I went through 3 new stats before finding an old 180 degree stat from my dodge pickup in my garage that actually reliably worked... my car sits at 200 all day long with the 180 stat.
Most of the popular performance stats are all made by the same manufacturer in china and quality control is very bad it seems. The one im using is a "Stant" but all 3 of the ones I bought were exactly the same despite all being different brands.
you can try holding your hand on the top radiator hose while the engine warms up and pay attention to when the hose gets hot since thats when your stat is opening...

whats your engine temp when driving around without sitting? does it go down after moving a while? if so a shroud or better fans would help if not then I would look at your stat, lower rad hose (make sure it has the metal spring in it to prevent it from sucking in and restricting flow) and your water pump/ belt.

13 bats, I saw the same cooking tray rad shroud in another thread... I thought it was a good idea as long as the fans are large enough so the holes allow good flow while moving.

Kubs

It sounds like your fans just dont move enough air. Also, having the stock belt driven fan on with the electric isn't helping you at all.

I know this is not a direct comparison, but on my race car I only use 1 small 14" fan for sitting in the pits. By itself it moves about 2200cfm. The reason I prefer just the small fan with its small shroud is that when the car is moving the air going through the radiator keep it cool enough I dont even use the fan. A shroud would just block the air moving through the radiator at speed. The only time I turn the fan on is sitting in the pits before or after and just sitting the car never goes above 180°.

In this picture you can see just the fan.


The reason I am showing this is because I have a minimal shroud and fan setup and no overheating, both on track pushing hard and sitting still. I think you just need to move more air with better fans.

76C3forme

I not that familiar with the Champion radiators for the Corvette but I have a Champion in my V8 Kit Car (Radiator up front and Engine in the Rear of the car). I've had 2 Champions in 2 different cars , (as well as one Be Cool and one Griffin in the past) and I have a question for the people using the Champion's etc in their cars:

Generally, the 2-cores / 2 row radiators use 2 large cores instead of 3-4 "normal" cores that you would see on a stock radiator.

The ones I've used and currently have, don't / didn't have an issue cooling up to about 475HP - which really doesn't equate to anything in regards to engine temp, but......

Are the Champions that people are using / talking about constructed like a standard radiator (with smaller cores) as opposed to a traditional "performance" / Aluminum radiator with 2 (or more) of the larger cores??

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why a Champion 2 core would not cool sufficiently since the ones that I have used, cool at least as good as the 3 and 4 cores that they have replaced. (although, the original radiators were old, but they were cooling fine, just leaking)..

I know a lot of other things come into play , of course, but it just has me wondering .

When I purchased mine, there was only one "champion". Are there now several Champions?? Has the quality gone down? Are the cores / rows smaller?

My original C3 radiator is fine, but I had considered (if needed at some point) going with another Champion / similar based on my "satisfaction with them" in the past.

Just curious about the Cores though...

Ok... I guess that was more than "1 question"

augiedoggy

the champion cores are bigger. (cant remember if they were 1" or what but I remember them being advertized as larger over stock.)
The 2 row would have cooled the OP's car fine. the 2 row my uncle has looks like some sort of old stock or stock replacement and even that works fine as long as his car is moving and its got a pretty hot cam with headers on it.

I believe The op already discovered by going from the 2 row to the 3 row that it really wasnt his issue. This is why hes suspecting maybe the water pump is failing at this point.

The biggest issue I think with the c3 is many times the lower air scoop is missing or people dont bother replacing the seals and this costs a lot of air flow. the tilted design is not very forgiving to this stuff.

The13Bats

a properly working cooling system doesn't overheat at any time,
if a car any car overheats at idle it has a cooling system issue,
Both my 383 and 454 would creep at idle with the old crap stock radiator and Taurus fan, so I went top shelf with both my radiator and fans.

A water pump pretty much works or doesn't, "failing" do you mean the belt is slipping or the impellor is disintegrating, is it moving water or not?

While I have seen a lot of posts on the seals and factory spoiler being important and I believe they must be I have also seen cars cool just fine and that stuff not in great shape or missing,

My full shroud doesn't block any air at speeds as not only does air escape at the fans my shroud like many stock shroud has built in trap doors for letting air through,

76C3forme

I kind of lean toward the13bats, while I thiink the seals are obviously important and they are there for a reason etc, mine were completely missing for the most part and the car idled for long periods in the driveway and cooled just fine while driving even in warm weather ......even before I replaced them.

Of course, they are there for a reaason - for sure, but if everything is functioning "cooling system wise", the cooling system should be able to keep the car cool (for the most part). But I guess there are so many variables, I guess every situation can be a little different. I can say for sure though that my previous 383's and my current 455 (both with cams , engine work etc, really don't "run any warmer" than they were when they were stock..