Edelbrock Performer RPM heads question
07-20-2016, 11:41 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Edelbrock Performer RPM heads question
Hey guys,
I have a Goodwrench 350 Crate engine. It's all stock including the terribly flowing iron heads and 8:1 compression ratio. I've been keeping my eye out for some good aluminum heads with a smaller chamber (~64cc).
I came across a good deal on some Edelbrock Performer RPM heads ($650). Hoping you guys could give me some opinions on them. They seem to have decent flow numbers, not incredible, but better than Vortec. But for some reason there just doesn't seem to be many people who like them, which seems strange considering how relatively inexpensive they are compared to other name brand head manufacturers.
Thoughts?
My goal is about 400 hp from the motor (hopefully about 300 to the wheels). I already have headers, and I plan to upgrade the camshaft and use a Performer RPM intake as well.
I have a Goodwrench 350 Crate engine. It's all stock including the terribly flowing iron heads and 8:1 compression ratio. I've been keeping my eye out for some good aluminum heads with a smaller chamber (~64cc).
I came across a good deal on some Edelbrock Performer RPM heads ($650). Hoping you guys could give me some opinions on them. They seem to have decent flow numbers, not incredible, but better than Vortec. But for some reason there just doesn't seem to be many people who like them, which seems strange considering how relatively inexpensive they are compared to other name brand head manufacturers.
Thoughts?
My goal is about 400 hp from the motor (hopefully about 300 to the wheels). I already have headers, and I plan to upgrade the camshaft and use a Performer RPM intake as well.
07-20-2016, 01:04 PM
#2
Safety Car
I ran the performer rpm on my 350" L48, they were leaps a bounds better than stock, but the flow wasn't as good as a lot heads out there, i think stock vortecs out flow them and cost less .
07-20-2016, 01:31 PM
#4
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
Pretty sure they have updated the RPMs over the yrs
Maybe not so popular as everyone lives by flow #s.
Good quality castings
You can get 400hp easy with them
If you like Vortecs jump straight to the Bowtie Vortecs real nice head for what they are.
Maybe not so popular as everyone lives by flow #s.
Good quality castings
You can get 400hp easy with them
If you like Vortecs jump straight to the Bowtie Vortecs real nice head for what they are.
07-20-2016, 01:55 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
IMHO, the issue is just that if you're buying new, there's some better heads available for very similar money. ($850-$1,100 assembled and shipped)
--From what I can tell, enthusiasts push back on Edelbrock because there's a perception that their brand is respected more than the quality/value of their products; much like Bose in the stereo/speaker market, they have a premium brand, with a middle-of-the-road pretty pedestrian product; enthusiast's tend to push back on that trying to keep brand perception in line with product reality. Obviously that doesn't mean that they're "bad" just, to the enthusiast, not as good as the reputation their history and marketing has earned their brand.
The Jegs SBC heads are a Profiler head that's had the early kinks worked out; the Patriots are right there in the top tier for value (2nd for perf), the Dart SHPs, anyone else's Profilers. --Somehow the Patriot's haven't really seen any price inflation in the past couple of years, but the Jegs and the Dart heads certainly have, so they're slowly becoming an even better deal, IMO.
When you're looking used, you can really get some of these for a great deal, as you've found. For $650, they're mighty tempting. Personally, I'd keep a lookout for used Patriots Dart SHPs or Jegs, other Profilers and possibly pay similar money for the next step up in perf. (although there's some controversy that DART's airflow numbers may be over-inflated because the intake ports are actually larger than advertised; this initially seems good, until you realize that it hurts low-to-mid range torque and air velocity; if torque is a major focus of your build a head in this category with an actual (not just advertised) ower intake runner size might be a better choice) -AFRs are like Apple products on the used market, they cost almost as much used as new if you can even find them available used; don't bother trying to hunt for a "deal" on new gen used AFRs.
Personally now that iron and aluminum are so close in price, you might as well save 50lbs of weight off of the top of your engine and get increased detonation resistance and easy porting later if such a thing is even in a possible future of your engine. If you go Vortec, you're locked into a Vortec intake, too.
With any of the top-tier / 2nd tier new heads (personally, I put AFR in a price and performance bracket of their own and all the rest of these are "2nd tier") you do need to pay attention to exhaust ports; may of them are going for the easy airflow gains by raising the exhaust port and it can cause manifold/header fitment issues. (Easy Fitment was critical to me so I went with ATK Engine's Profiler castings that have normal height exhaust ports and I'll just select a cam with a slightly increased exhaust duration / lift to make up for it.)
I caveat all of these statements with the fact that I'm still super "green" in all this stuff so if someone experienced contradicts anything I say, go with what the other guy says.
Full Disclosure: I've decided upon a Profiler-based casting so I might no longer be fully impartial.
Adam
--From what I can tell, enthusiasts push back on Edelbrock because there's a perception that their brand is respected more than the quality/value of their products; much like Bose in the stereo/speaker market, they have a premium brand, with a middle-of-the-road pretty pedestrian product; enthusiast's tend to push back on that trying to keep brand perception in line with product reality. Obviously that doesn't mean that they're "bad" just, to the enthusiast, not as good as the reputation their history and marketing has earned their brand.
The Jegs SBC heads are a Profiler head that's had the early kinks worked out; the Patriots are right there in the top tier for value (2nd for perf), the Dart SHPs, anyone else's Profilers. --Somehow the Patriot's haven't really seen any price inflation in the past couple of years, but the Jegs and the Dart heads certainly have, so they're slowly becoming an even better deal, IMO.
When you're looking used, you can really get some of these for a great deal, as you've found. For $650, they're mighty tempting. Personally, I'd keep a lookout for used Patriots Dart SHPs or Jegs, other Profilers and possibly pay similar money for the next step up in perf. (although there's some controversy that DART's airflow numbers may be over-inflated because the intake ports are actually larger than advertised; this initially seems good, until you realize that it hurts low-to-mid range torque and air velocity; if torque is a major focus of your build a head in this category with an actual (not just advertised) ower intake runner size might be a better choice) -AFRs are like Apple products on the used market, they cost almost as much used as new if you can even find them available used; don't bother trying to hunt for a "deal" on new gen used AFRs.
Personally now that iron and aluminum are so close in price, you might as well save 50lbs of weight off of the top of your engine and get increased detonation resistance and easy porting later if such a thing is even in a possible future of your engine. If you go Vortec, you're locked into a Vortec intake, too.
With any of the top-tier / 2nd tier new heads (personally, I put AFR in a price and performance bracket of their own and all the rest of these are "2nd tier") you do need to pay attention to exhaust ports; may of them are going for the easy airflow gains by raising the exhaust port and it can cause manifold/header fitment issues. (Easy Fitment was critical to me so I went with ATK Engine's Profiler castings that have normal height exhaust ports and I'll just select a cam with a slightly increased exhaust duration / lift to make up for it.)
I caveat all of these statements with the fact that I'm still super "green" in all this stuff so if someone experienced contradicts anything I say, go with what the other guy says.
Full Disclosure: I've decided upon a Profiler-based casting so I might no longer be fully impartial.
Adam
Last edited by NewbVetteGuy; 07-20-2016 at 02:12 PM.
07-20-2016, 02:31 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
IMHO, the issue is just that if you're buying new, there's some better heads available for very similar money. ($850-$1,100 assembled and shipped)
--From what I can tell, enthusiasts push back on Edelbrock because there's a perception that their brand is respected more than the quality/value of their products; much like Bose in the stereo/speaker market, they have a premium brand, with a middle-of-the-road pretty pedestrian product; enthusiast's tend to push back on that trying to keep brand perception in line with product reality. Obviously that doesn't mean that they're "bad" just, to the enthusiast, not as good as the reputation their history and marketing has earned their brand.
The Jegs SBC heads are a Profiler head that's had the early kinks worked out; the Patriots are right there in the top tier for value (2nd for perf), the Dart SHPs, anyone else's Profilers. --Somehow the Patriot's haven't really seen any price inflation in the past couple of years, but the Jegs and the Dart heads certainly have, so they're slowly becoming an even better deal, IMO.
When you're looking used, you can really get some of these for a great deal, as you've found. For $650, they're mighty tempting. Personally, I'd keep a lookout for used Patriots Dart SHPs or Jegs, other Profilers and possibly pay similar money for the next step up in perf. (although there's some controversy that DART's airflow numbers may be over-inflated because the intake ports are actually larger than advertised; this initially seems good, until you realize that it hurts low-to-mid range torque and air velocity; if torque is a major focus of your build a head in this category with an actual (not just advertised) ower intake runner size might be a better choice) -AFRs are like Apple products on the used market, they cost almost as much used as new if you can even find them available used; don't bother trying to hunt for a "deal" on new gen used AFRs.
Personally now that iron and aluminum are so close in price, you might as well save 50lbs of weight off of the top of your engine and get increased detonation resistance and easy porting later if such a thing is even in a possible future of your engine. If you go Vortec, you're locked into a Vortec intake, too.
With any of the top-tier / 2nd tier new heads (personally, I put AFR in a price and performance bracket of their own and all the rest of these are "2nd tier") you do need to pay attention to exhaust ports; may of them are going for the easy airflow gains by raising the exhaust port and it can cause manifold/header fitment issues. (Easy Fitment was critical to me so I went with ATK Engine's Profiler castings that have normal height exhaust ports and I'll just select a cam with a slightly increased exhaust duration / lift to make up for it.)
I caveat all of these statements with the fact that I'm still super "green" in all this stuff so if someone experienced contradicts anything I say, go with what the other guy says.
Full Disclosure: I've decided upon a Profiler-based casting so I might no longer be fully impartial.
Adam
--From what I can tell, enthusiasts push back on Edelbrock because there's a perception that their brand is respected more than the quality/value of their products; much like Bose in the stereo/speaker market, they have a premium brand, with a middle-of-the-road pretty pedestrian product; enthusiast's tend to push back on that trying to keep brand perception in line with product reality. Obviously that doesn't mean that they're "bad" just, to the enthusiast, not as good as the reputation their history and marketing has earned their brand.
The Jegs SBC heads are a Profiler head that's had the early kinks worked out; the Patriots are right there in the top tier for value (2nd for perf), the Dart SHPs, anyone else's Profilers. --Somehow the Patriot's haven't really seen any price inflation in the past couple of years, but the Jegs and the Dart heads certainly have, so they're slowly becoming an even better deal, IMO.
When you're looking used, you can really get some of these for a great deal, as you've found. For $650, they're mighty tempting. Personally, I'd keep a lookout for used Patriots Dart SHPs or Jegs, other Profilers and possibly pay similar money for the next step up in perf. (although there's some controversy that DART's airflow numbers may be over-inflated because the intake ports are actually larger than advertised; this initially seems good, until you realize that it hurts low-to-mid range torque and air velocity; if torque is a major focus of your build a head in this category with an actual (not just advertised) ower intake runner size might be a better choice) -AFRs are like Apple products on the used market, they cost almost as much used as new if you can even find them available used; don't bother trying to hunt for a "deal" on new gen used AFRs.
Personally now that iron and aluminum are so close in price, you might as well save 50lbs of weight off of the top of your engine and get increased detonation resistance and easy porting later if such a thing is even in a possible future of your engine. If you go Vortec, you're locked into a Vortec intake, too.
With any of the top-tier / 2nd tier new heads (personally, I put AFR in a price and performance bracket of their own and all the rest of these are "2nd tier") you do need to pay attention to exhaust ports; may of them are going for the easy airflow gains by raising the exhaust port and it can cause manifold/header fitment issues. (Easy Fitment was critical to me so I went with ATK Engine's Profiler castings that have normal height exhaust ports and I'll just select a cam with a slightly increased exhaust duration / lift to make up for it.)
I caveat all of these statements with the fact that I'm still super "green" in all this stuff so if someone experienced contradicts anything I say, go with what the other guy says.
Full Disclosure: I've decided upon a Profiler-based casting so I might no longer be fully impartial.
Adam
Two questions for you: Where are you finding Patriot heads? I can't seem to find them for sale anywhere.
Also, do you look anywhere besides craigslist/ebay/racingjunk for used heads? I'd love to save some money and get a better head, but there just doesn't seem to be much available.
I would go straight for the Jegs/profiler head except that it costs $400 more than the Performer RPM. I may still wait and save up some more money for them if they are worth it performance wise. But if it's $400 for an extra 10-15hp, it's not worth it to me.
07-20-2016, 02:55 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
Two questions for you: Where are you finding Patriot heads? I can't seem to find them for sale anywhere.
Also, do you look anywhere besides craigslist/ebay/racingjunk for used heads? I'd love to save some money and get a better head, but there just doesn't seem to be much available.
Also, do you look anywhere besides craigslist/ebay/racingjunk for used heads? I'd love to save some money and get a better head, but there just doesn't seem to be much available.
I search one of the nation-wide Craigslist search engines so the whole country is available if you're willing to pay shipping and the seller is willing to ship.
There are 3rd party Craigslist apps that also allow you to set "alerts" when items matching certain criteria get posted, so you will know immediately when something you're looking for goes up for sale and you can be first to respond.
Adam
07-20-2016, 04:36 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
I believe Patriot is now called "ProMaxx". www.jegs.com/patriot redirects you to the ProMax page.
No... the ProMaxx are iron Vortec-style heads, only.... I have no idea what happened to the Patriot Freedom Aluminum heads...
Adam
No... the ProMaxx are iron Vortec-style heads, only.... I have no idea what happened to the Patriot Freedom Aluminum heads...
Adam
Last edited by NewbVetteGuy; 07-20-2016 at 04:39 PM.
07-20-2016, 04:42 PM
#9
Racer
With any of the top-tier / 2nd tier new heads (personally, I put AFR in a price and performance bracket of their own and all the rest of these are "2nd tier") you do need to pay attention to exhaust ports; may of them are going for the easy airflow gains by raising the exhaust port and it can cause manifold/header fitment issues. (Easy Fitment was critical to me so I went with ATK Engine's Profiler castings that have normal height exhaust ports and I'll just select a cam with a slightly increased exhaust duration / lift to make up for it.)
I caveat all of these statements with the fact that I'm still super "green" in all this stuff so if someone experienced contradicts anything I say, go with what the other guy says.
Full Disclosure: I've decided upon a Profiler-based casting so I might no longer be fully impartial.
Adam
I caveat all of these statements with the fact that I'm still super "green" in all this stuff so if someone experienced contradicts anything I say, go with what the other guy says.
Full Disclosure: I've decided upon a Profiler-based casting so I might no longer be fully impartial.
Adam
I'm just here in Kirkland, I might have to hit you up if you know of any good machine shops around here for various small jobs.
Steve
07-20-2016, 04:46 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I believe Patriot is now called "ProMaxx". www.jegs.com/patriot redirects you to the ProMax page.
No... the ProMaxx are iron Vortec-style heads, only.... I have no idea what happened to the Patriot Freedom Aluminum heads...
Adam
No... the ProMaxx are iron Vortec-style heads, only.... I have no idea what happened to the Patriot Freedom Aluminum heads...
Adam
Any other suggestions in the $800 range?
If not, I'll just keep waiting for a good used set of heads to pop up or I'll save up for some profilers.
07-20-2016, 06:33 PM
#11
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
Id save up buy new then have a reputable shop double check them
on the other hand machine shops arent a bad place to look for a sound set of used heads. Id be leery buying them otherwise never know why they took them off.
With heads you get what you pay for every time dont skimp there.
on the other hand machine shops arent a bad place to look for a sound set of used heads. Id be leery buying them otherwise never know why they took them off.
With heads you get what you pay for every time dont skimp there.
07-20-2016, 06:51 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Another thought, i found some vortec heads for $200 on craigslist. Obviously these are the staple for budget performance. They wouldnt be as good as aluminum aftermarket, but for the price theyre hard to beat. Could i just buy some and bolt them on assuming the springs are correct for my cam and there are no cracks? Or is it a bad idea to buy used vortecs? Keep in mind these would be going on a bonestock goodwrench 350, so im not looking for cutting edge performance here.
07-20-2016, 06:53 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Id save up buy new then have a reputable shop double check them
on the other hand machine shops arent a bad place to look for a sound set of used heads. Id be leery buying them otherwise never know why they took them off.
With heads you get what you pay for every time dont skimp there.
on the other hand machine shops arent a bad place to look for a sound set of used heads. Id be leery buying them otherwise never know why they took them off.
With heads you get what you pay for every time dont skimp there.
07-20-2016, 07:34 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
I am using iron vortecs from the salvage yard. They really woke up my L48 along with a summit 1103 cam. Well worth the money. You will need a different intake manifold.
Last edited by '75; 07-20-2016 at 07:34 PM.
07-20-2016, 08:47 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
I had my builder for the bottom end of my L-82 355 check my AFR s before I bolted them on...they were perfect..nothing was out of spec...right out of the box....AFR s are pricey though
Last edited by jb78L-82; 07-20-2016 at 08:49 PM.
07-20-2016, 10:01 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
I have the eddy RPMs on my 383. Very happy with them. I did some home port clean up and in street trim would trap 12.60 @113 mph, with no traction til 3rd gear.
Last edited by 73C34me; 07-20-2016 at 10:02 PM.
07-20-2016, 11:11 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
07-21-2016, 12:18 AM
#19
Melting Slicks
Because even new doesn't mean they are perfect.
These are mine after checking the seat run out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3jn2ER455Y
These are mine after checking the seat run out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3jn2ER455Y
Adam
07-21-2016, 01:46 AM
#20
Drifting
Member Since: Aug 2015
Location: NSW, Australia
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C3 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
I've got Performer RPM heads for the stroker I'm assembling, but mostly because they came with the engine that I'm rebuilding. They wouldn't have been my first choice, but we're good enough to propel the engine to 10.1 @121mph in it's previous incarnation (in a ~2500lb vehicle on little 10" slicks) with a hydraulic flat tappet, ~10.3:1, performer rpm intake etc. They are still good heads if bought at a good price, much better than stock.