E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (kinda long)
11-09-2003, 02:09 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (kinda long)
Today (8 Nov '03) was the final 'test-n-tune' of the '03 season at Pittsburgh Raceway Park, and although it was very cold (high-30s* ?), I took my '82 Corvette for a test-session with it's newly installed 3.73:1 gears. First, a brief refresher:
I bought this 11,000-mile Corvette, in bone-stock condition, in May '00.
Last July/August, with 17,000-mile, I took it 'testing-n-tuning' @ PRP, still in as-delivered condition (stock 200 HP Cross-Fire with original exhaust; 700R4 transmission; 2.87:1 gears), it's best run being a disappointing 15.903 @ 86 MPH (although I had 'deep-staged', which, due to less 'rolling-start', results in slower ETs by approx .12-.16). It had previously delivered 23+ MPG on a 236-mile highway cruise also...
I had 3.73:1 rear gears installed in early October '03. Attempting to 'break-in' the gears, my girl-friend & I took the Corvette on 2 decent rides, covering 433 miles of various driving conditions, where it returned 17.0 MPG.
Anxious to see what performance gain the 2.87-to-3.73 gear swap produced, I got to PRP an hour before the first session of runs, where I met a fellow CORVETTE-FORUM member 'jdetar', racing his 12-sixties/109 '03 A4, as well as 'Scott' (13-fifties/101 '87 TPI), and an un-named gent in his '01 ZO6 (12.53/113), both of whom I encouraged to 'join' the CORVETTE-FORUM.
I was in the 3rd pair of cars to go down the cold race-track. With no heat 'built' into the surface, I doubted there'd be much traction, so I left 'off-idle'. Even that offered no help to the 255/60R15 BFG Radial TAs, which spun immediately through 1st gear. As I had done the previous year, I shifted the 700R4 manually @ 4500 RPM. My first run netted a 15.334 @ 90.06.
Before my 2nd run, the Staff @ PRP sprayed the launch-pad with traction compound. Not changing my launch-techniques ( :lol: ), this run produced a slightly quicker 15.253 @ 90.55, still with tire-spin.
When I had raced in '02 with the 2.87:1 gearing, traction wasn't much of a problem; now, the 3.73s, combined with the 700R4s 1st gear ratio of 3.06, and a cold track, meant I just HAD to do a burn-out.
For run #3, I drove THRU the water quickly, stopped, and performed a decent burn-out, not wanting to send 'Akron fall-out' (shredded tire rubber) all over the Black 1/4-panels, bust the Dana-44 rear-end, or abuse the tires too badly. This resulted in a best-yet 15.209 @ 90.69 time-card.
There aren't too many '82 Corvettes left, and fewer-still drag-race their cars. One belongs to CORVETTE-FORUM member 'Desertdawg', who's no-cat/hi-po exhaust (from the 'ACME Company' ?) Cross-Fire has gone 15.171, MPH unknown. He teases me endlessly about being SO much faster than my '82, and I really wanted to at LEAST run the ETs he had mentioned.
Before run #4, I looked at the ET-slips, and then at my '82, figuring "I will have ALL WINTER to clean those 1/4-panels; if the rear-end breaks, we'll put even DEEPER gears in it; and I can get 255/60R15 BFGs from Summit Racing Equipment in 2 days! I decided to do a REAL burn-out!
Unfortunately, the car in front of me had left some fluids on the pad; even with a good 'smoke-'em-up', my 60' fell-off by .04, and I only ran a 15.272 @ 90.78.
DESPERATELY wanting to match 'Desertdawg', and running out of sun-light, I realized I had to 'do' something. I narrowed it down to 4 possible solutions:
#1- remove the radio;
#2- remove the heater;
#3- remover the windshield wipers, or;
#4- not 'deep-stage'
Even though the options #1, 2, and 3 had been suggested by a 'brass-nads/heads-up racing' advocate, I chose to simply remove the word 'DEEP' from my windows, and stage 'shallow', as most other racers do. I don't know if 'Desertdawg' deep-staged or shallow-staged on his 15.171-run or not; maybe he'll see this thread and comment.
The pad was again prepped before the 5th session, and after a 'healthy' burn-out, the '82 left the line with just a 'hint' of hesitation, resulting in a 15.131 @ 90.69 MPH run! My new-found friends 'jdetar', 'Scott', and the fellow in the ZO6 congratulated me on 'breaking-the-teens'
Not merely content with just beating 'Desertdawg', I wanted to 'crush-his-will-to-race-again' (and I resisted tearing-out any 'nifty pop-up gizmos', too).
For the 6th and final run of the day, I was lucky to find nobody 'leaking' in front of me. After doing a burn-out that'd make the Budweiser Top Fueler proud (who knows; I may get a chance to drive it, right?), I staged quickly. This time, without 'bogging' or tire-spin, the '82 jumped (maybe TOO strong a word for a Cross-Fire?) from the line, and pulled like a 'raped-ape' (OK, how about an 'excited-chimpanzee'?), and stopped the 'CompuLink StarTrak' (real timing system; SEE?) clocks in 15.004 seconds, with a 90.89 MPH trap-speed.
Torn between trying to knock-off those last 5-thousandths to get into the '14.999-Second Club' by doing something like, oh, tossing-aside the passenger seat because it 'don't make power', or getting home before dark, I decided to 'head-for-home': The '14.999-Second Club' will be there next year.
In-short, going from 2.87:1 gears to 3.73s resulted in an ET-improvement of .694 (15.903-to-15.209) while 'deep-staging', and it looks like the deep-staging costed me another .15-or-more in ET.
Here are the break-downs of the best 'BEFORE', and 'AFTER' runs:
Last year, with 2.87:1 gears:
60': 2.349
330': 6.645
660': 10.189
660' MPH: 70.88
1000': 13.289
1/4: 15.903
MPH: 86.06
(Truly scary that THIS is a Corvette, huh?)
Today, with 3.73:1 gears:
60': 2.253
330': 6.337
660': 9.751
660' MPH: 71.37
1000': 12.716
1/4: 15.209
MPH: 90.69
(a little beter!)
As above, WITHOUT deep-staging:
60': 2.118
330': 6.157
660': 9.562
660' MPH: 71.58
1000': 12.519
1/4: 15.004
MPH: 90.89
(note how the 'deep-staging' effects the 60', 330', and 660' the most, but the 'splits' from 1000'-1/4 are almost identical?)
There have been a few threads here in C3 recently, concerning gear-swaps/performance increases. Maybe this will help...
[Modified by Glensgages, 1:19 AM 11/9/2003]
I bought this 11,000-mile Corvette, in bone-stock condition, in May '00.
Last July/August, with 17,000-mile, I took it 'testing-n-tuning' @ PRP, still in as-delivered condition (stock 200 HP Cross-Fire with original exhaust; 700R4 transmission; 2.87:1 gears), it's best run being a disappointing 15.903 @ 86 MPH (although I had 'deep-staged', which, due to less 'rolling-start', results in slower ETs by approx .12-.16). It had previously delivered 23+ MPG on a 236-mile highway cruise also...
I had 3.73:1 rear gears installed in early October '03. Attempting to 'break-in' the gears, my girl-friend & I took the Corvette on 2 decent rides, covering 433 miles of various driving conditions, where it returned 17.0 MPG.
Anxious to see what performance gain the 2.87-to-3.73 gear swap produced, I got to PRP an hour before the first session of runs, where I met a fellow CORVETTE-FORUM member 'jdetar', racing his 12-sixties/109 '03 A4, as well as 'Scott' (13-fifties/101 '87 TPI), and an un-named gent in his '01 ZO6 (12.53/113), both of whom I encouraged to 'join' the CORVETTE-FORUM.
I was in the 3rd pair of cars to go down the cold race-track. With no heat 'built' into the surface, I doubted there'd be much traction, so I left 'off-idle'. Even that offered no help to the 255/60R15 BFG Radial TAs, which spun immediately through 1st gear. As I had done the previous year, I shifted the 700R4 manually @ 4500 RPM. My first run netted a 15.334 @ 90.06.
Before my 2nd run, the Staff @ PRP sprayed the launch-pad with traction compound. Not changing my launch-techniques ( :lol: ), this run produced a slightly quicker 15.253 @ 90.55, still with tire-spin.
When I had raced in '02 with the 2.87:1 gearing, traction wasn't much of a problem; now, the 3.73s, combined with the 700R4s 1st gear ratio of 3.06, and a cold track, meant I just HAD to do a burn-out.
For run #3, I drove THRU the water quickly, stopped, and performed a decent burn-out, not wanting to send 'Akron fall-out' (shredded tire rubber) all over the Black 1/4-panels, bust the Dana-44 rear-end, or abuse the tires too badly. This resulted in a best-yet 15.209 @ 90.69 time-card.
There aren't too many '82 Corvettes left, and fewer-still drag-race their cars. One belongs to CORVETTE-FORUM member 'Desertdawg', who's no-cat/hi-po exhaust (from the 'ACME Company' ?) Cross-Fire has gone 15.171, MPH unknown. He teases me endlessly about being SO much faster than my '82, and I really wanted to at LEAST run the ETs he had mentioned.
Before run #4, I looked at the ET-slips, and then at my '82, figuring "I will have ALL WINTER to clean those 1/4-panels; if the rear-end breaks, we'll put even DEEPER gears in it; and I can get 255/60R15 BFGs from Summit Racing Equipment in 2 days! I decided to do a REAL burn-out!
Unfortunately, the car in front of me had left some fluids on the pad; even with a good 'smoke-'em-up', my 60' fell-off by .04, and I only ran a 15.272 @ 90.78.
DESPERATELY wanting to match 'Desertdawg', and running out of sun-light, I realized I had to 'do' something. I narrowed it down to 4 possible solutions:
#1- remove the radio;
#2- remove the heater;
#3- remover the windshield wipers, or;
#4- not 'deep-stage'
Even though the options #1, 2, and 3 had been suggested by a 'brass-nads/heads-up racing' advocate, I chose to simply remove the word 'DEEP' from my windows, and stage 'shallow', as most other racers do. I don't know if 'Desertdawg' deep-staged or shallow-staged on his 15.171-run or not; maybe he'll see this thread and comment.
The pad was again prepped before the 5th session, and after a 'healthy' burn-out, the '82 left the line with just a 'hint' of hesitation, resulting in a 15.131 @ 90.69 MPH run! My new-found friends 'jdetar', 'Scott', and the fellow in the ZO6 congratulated me on 'breaking-the-teens'
Not merely content with just beating 'Desertdawg', I wanted to 'crush-his-will-to-race-again' (and I resisted tearing-out any 'nifty pop-up gizmos', too).
For the 6th and final run of the day, I was lucky to find nobody 'leaking' in front of me. After doing a burn-out that'd make the Budweiser Top Fueler proud (who knows; I may get a chance to drive it, right?), I staged quickly. This time, without 'bogging' or tire-spin, the '82 jumped (maybe TOO strong a word for a Cross-Fire?) from the line, and pulled like a 'raped-ape' (OK, how about an 'excited-chimpanzee'?), and stopped the 'CompuLink StarTrak' (real timing system; SEE?) clocks in 15.004 seconds, with a 90.89 MPH trap-speed.
Torn between trying to knock-off those last 5-thousandths to get into the '14.999-Second Club' by doing something like, oh, tossing-aside the passenger seat because it 'don't make power', or getting home before dark, I decided to 'head-for-home': The '14.999-Second Club' will be there next year.
In-short, going from 2.87:1 gears to 3.73s resulted in an ET-improvement of .694 (15.903-to-15.209) while 'deep-staging', and it looks like the deep-staging costed me another .15-or-more in ET.
Here are the break-downs of the best 'BEFORE', and 'AFTER' runs:
Last year, with 2.87:1 gears:
60': 2.349
330': 6.645
660': 10.189
660' MPH: 70.88
1000': 13.289
1/4: 15.903
MPH: 86.06
(Truly scary that THIS is a Corvette, huh?)
Today, with 3.73:1 gears:
60': 2.253
330': 6.337
660': 9.751
660' MPH: 71.37
1000': 12.716
1/4: 15.209
MPH: 90.69
(a little beter!)
As above, WITHOUT deep-staging:
60': 2.118
330': 6.157
660': 9.562
660' MPH: 71.58
1000': 12.519
1/4: 15.004
MPH: 90.89
(note how the 'deep-staging' effects the 60', 330', and 660' the most, but the 'splits' from 1000'-1/4 are almost identical?)
There have been a few threads here in C3 recently, concerning gear-swaps/performance increases. Maybe this will help...
[Modified by Glensgages, 1:19 AM 11/9/2003]
11-09-2003, 03:30 AM
#2
Race Director
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Glensgages)
You'd be faster if you had a big block. Wonder why that is?
That's damn good though. Makes me wonder what my car is capable of, with just about the maximum of external bolt ons...
-Steve
That's damn good though. Makes me wonder what my car is capable of, with just about the maximum of external bolt ons...
-Steve
11-09-2003, 07:39 AM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Pacin'California)
You'd be faster if you had a big block. Wonder why that is?
:jester
That's damn good though. Makes me wonder what my car is capable of, with just about the maximum of external bolt ons...
I'm amazed at the number of owners of AMERICA'S ONLY SPORTS CAR who literally 'refuse' to run & race them. If it's a rare, C1/C2 or low-production-number car, fine. But an 'everyday' L-48, L98, etc.?
While in the Staging Lanes, I spoke with the other Corvette owners yesterday, explaining how I'd spoken with track management about forming a 'Corvette-Challenge-Series' next year. They gave me their blessing to do the 'ground-work', to see how-much interest there is in my area.
I had 100 flyers printed-up, and with the help of 'CORKVETTE1', I placed them in auto-parts stores, Post Offices, under those 'pesky' windshield-wipers, etc. That was in early September; we got ZERO response. I had mentioned this to a few local Corvette-Clubs; they weren't interested, either.
At Corvette Shows, you try getting Corvette-owners enthused, and their reactions are:
"RACE? MY car? YOU don't think I'm actually going to RACE my car, DO YOU???", after you patiently listen to them brag about how well their Vette runs after installing their $800/12 HP mufflers, or that their car now 'hooks' once he located Drag Radials for his 17" wheels, paying much more than the price of slicks for a simple 15" rim...
Since the Cross-Fire was only offered 2 production years ('82, and '84), there has never really been much after-market parts available, and from what I can tell, the computer is very primitive, too.
My car currently has just 22,000 miles on it; barring an engine-swap, I fear I'm saddled with a 14-second Corvette.....
[Modified by Glensgages, 8:58 AM 11/9/2003]
[Modified by Glensgages, 11:23 PM 11/9/2003]
11-09-2003, 08:43 AM
#4
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Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Glensgages)
Damn nice improvement with the new gears Glen. Seems your quite happy with them . I Hope to get some times with the new 3.54 gears I installed too but no 1/4 mle track nearby. Have to rely on the old Gtech. I am having one hell of a time with wheel spin plus I am still trying to tune in the 7747 computer to optimize proformance with the new gears.
Glen, If you want to shave off those last .005 or better just go and port the crossfire intake and modify the swirl plates to get more flow. This is a cheap and effective mod you can do yourself with a die grinder. I did it to mine and its does make a difference in proformance.
Ed
[Modified by Eds82, 8:02 AM 11/9/2003]
Glen, If you want to shave off those last .005 or better just go and port the crossfire intake and modify the swirl plates to get more flow. This is a cheap and effective mod you can do yourself with a die grinder. I did it to mine and its does make a difference in proformance.
Ed
[Modified by Eds82, 8:02 AM 11/9/2003]
11-09-2003, 09:12 AM
#5
Drifting
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Glensgages)
Congrats Glen!!
Haven't had a chance to try my 82 w/3.73's yet, but I'm not stock either.
I pulled the crossfire months ago, went carburated. Now I'm thinking about putting on 2-4's. Kinda ironic isn't it? pulled 2- tb's now want 2-4's on it.
Will my obsession ever end!!!???
:cool: :cheers:
Haven't had a chance to try my 82 w/3.73's yet, but I'm not stock either.
I pulled the crossfire months ago, went carburated. Now I'm thinking about putting on 2-4's. Kinda ironic isn't it? pulled 2- tb's now want 2-4's on it.
Will my obsession ever end!!!???
:cool: :cheers:
11-09-2003, 09:49 AM
#6
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Eds82)
Eds82:
Glad to hear from you. I'm assuming you 'got-back' safely?
(If you can't find a local 1/4-mile strip, you can get a 'rough' idea by visiting an 1/8-mile facility. 'Generally-speaking', if you divide your 1/8-mile ET by .64, you'll be very close to the guesstimated' 1/4-mile ET.
Looking at my final time-slip: 9.562 (1/8-mile) div/by .64 = 14.94 (1/4-mile).
The NHRA uses ' .64 ' as a 'factor' when calculating 1/4-mile info to 1/8-mile equivalents...)
I'm trying to do these modifications 'one-step-at-a-time', as many Cross-Fire owners don't know which mod 'works', and which one is 'BS'. Now that I know the gear-swap netted .7-seconds/4MPH in the 1/4-mile, I will move onto other areas.
In hind-sight, I believe the 3.73s aren't deep-enough for the 1/4-mile; I was 'trapping' at only 4200 RPM in 3rd gear, not even getting into the .7:1 OD/4th. To run the 'same' 90+ MPH in OD, I'd need to install approx 5.38:1 gears, which would make the current 'traction problem' even WORSE!
Even without the 5.38:1 gears, I think I'll be running a pair of 26" x 8" 'stickie-streets' in future drag-testing.
This winter, I plan to do 'something' with the original, stock exhaust. 'Scott', who I met at the track, suggested the MID-AMERICA 2.5" no-cat true-dual kit he (has them on his '87), and a set of free-flowing mufflers (I'm thinking NO mufflers?). Removing the '2 into a single cat out to 2 mufflers for 'true-duals' has to be better.
By chance, I have 2 'spare' Cross-Fire intake manifold base-plates, in addition to the one on the car. I will 'port' one; the other one has been spoken-for. Once I've swapped intake base-plates, a friend, who hand-makes Pro-Stock style sheet-metal intake-manifolds, may 'play' with the one currently on the '82.
Once ET-results are established with the 'new' exhaust, we'll swap to the ported-intake base-plate, test again, then 'tinker' with a shift-kit, '85 fuel pump, 1.6:1 rocker ratios, etc., before eventually getting a higher-stall/lock-up converter for the 700R4, hopefully providing ET-results 'one-at-a-time'.
We are hoping to run 13s without removing such 'un-needed' items like the headlights, dash-board, and spare tire...
5.38:1 gears????? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Glad to hear from you. I'm assuming you 'got-back' safely?
(If you can't find a local 1/4-mile strip, you can get a 'rough' idea by visiting an 1/8-mile facility. 'Generally-speaking', if you divide your 1/8-mile ET by .64, you'll be very close to the guesstimated' 1/4-mile ET.
Looking at my final time-slip: 9.562 (1/8-mile) div/by .64 = 14.94 (1/4-mile).
The NHRA uses ' .64 ' as a 'factor' when calculating 1/4-mile info to 1/8-mile equivalents...)
I'm trying to do these modifications 'one-step-at-a-time', as many Cross-Fire owners don't know which mod 'works', and which one is 'BS'. Now that I know the gear-swap netted .7-seconds/4MPH in the 1/4-mile, I will move onto other areas.
In hind-sight, I believe the 3.73s aren't deep-enough for the 1/4-mile; I was 'trapping' at only 4200 RPM in 3rd gear, not even getting into the .7:1 OD/4th. To run the 'same' 90+ MPH in OD, I'd need to install approx 5.38:1 gears, which would make the current 'traction problem' even WORSE!
Even without the 5.38:1 gears, I think I'll be running a pair of 26" x 8" 'stickie-streets' in future drag-testing.
This winter, I plan to do 'something' with the original, stock exhaust. 'Scott', who I met at the track, suggested the MID-AMERICA 2.5" no-cat true-dual kit he (has them on his '87), and a set of free-flowing mufflers (I'm thinking NO mufflers?). Removing the '2 into a single cat out to 2 mufflers for 'true-duals' has to be better.
By chance, I have 2 'spare' Cross-Fire intake manifold base-plates, in addition to the one on the car. I will 'port' one; the other one has been spoken-for. Once I've swapped intake base-plates, a friend, who hand-makes Pro-Stock style sheet-metal intake-manifolds, may 'play' with the one currently on the '82.
Once ET-results are established with the 'new' exhaust, we'll swap to the ported-intake base-plate, test again, then 'tinker' with a shift-kit, '85 fuel pump, 1.6:1 rocker ratios, etc., before eventually getting a higher-stall/lock-up converter for the 700R4, hopefully providing ET-results 'one-at-a-time'.
We are hoping to run 13s without removing such 'un-needed' items like the headlights, dash-board, and spare tire...
5.38:1 gears????? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
11-10-2003, 01:35 AM
#7
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Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Glensgages)
Here was my best at about 80 degrees.
60--------2.125
1/8-------9.634@72.06
1/4------15.131@88.65
I'm glad you did better, yeah I know, but it's good to hear of the cease fire doing this good... :D
60--------2.125
1/8-------9.634@72.06
1/4------15.131@88.65
I'm glad you did better, yeah I know, but it's good to hear of the cease fire doing this good... :D
11-10-2003, 12:32 PM
#8
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Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Glensgages)
After some math on my part (mostly guesstimations) I'll trade you those 5.something gears I got for your 3.73s. I'll even be a nice guy and won't charge you for it. :lol:
Seriously, good to hear that you have a real passion for these cars. I hope that I can get mine ready to take out for a door slammer night sometime in the next year or two.
I don't plan on getting too serious about racing, but I would definatly like to know what my car is capable of.
Seriously, good to hear that you have a real passion for these cars. I hope that I can get mine ready to take out for a door slammer night sometime in the next year or two.
I don't plan on getting too serious about racing, but I would definatly like to know what my car is capable of.
11-10-2003, 05:38 PM
#9
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Desertdawg)
Here was my best at about 80 degrees.
60--------2.125
1/8-------9.634@72.06
1/4------15.131@88.65
I'm glad you did better, yeah I know, but it's good to hear of the cease fire doing this good... :D
60--------2.125
1/8-------9.634@72.06
1/4------15.131@88.65
I'm glad you did better, yeah I know, but it's good to hear of the cease fire doing this good... :D
As the 'Dawg & I celebrated our 'good-fortune' (bad-luck?) at being Cross-Fire owners, we discussed our identical 15.131-second 'blasts', until we both noticed something strange about our 'IDENTICAL' runs...
In true-American fashion, God created ALL '82 Cross-Fires equal:
EQUALLY PAINFULLY SLOW!!!
The only drive-train option in '82 was (oddly) cars delivered with steel Rally wheels came with 'highway' 2.72:1 gears; all other came with 2.87s.
Both 'Desertdawg' and my car have just 2 modifications done to them: I have chromed the aluminum wheels (no effect on ET), and the 3.73:1 rear-gears, while the Dawg has modded his exhaust (gutted cat & Borla mufflers), and his recent 'Close-Encounters-of-the-Coyote-Kind' (ET benefit unknown).
You would think that between the 2 'major' modifications (my gearing, Dawg's exhaust), that if we'd run the SAME IDENTICAL ET, that I would out-run the Dawg to the 60' & 1/8-mile mark (due to my better gearing), and when my ol' Miss-Fire ran out of RPM, the Dawg's free-flowing exhaust, matched with his 'top-end' gears, would run me down RIGHT at the finish-line, IF we were to run the exact same ET, as we had done.
Strangely, the exact OPPOSITE is true! Below, I'm posting the 60', 1/8, and 1/4 times/speeds, with the Dawg in BOLD, and mine in ITALICS.
60': 2.125 :chevy 2.158
1/8: 9.634@72.06 :chevy 9.668@71.12
1/4: 15.131@88.65 :chevy 15.131@90.69
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
So, HOW did the Desertdawg out-run an identical-but-deeper-geared-Corvette, to the 60' & 1/8-mile mark, and how did MY car out-MPH an identical-with taller-gears-and free-flowing-exhaust-Corvette on the top-end?
His 80* temps, vs. my 38* weather?
It's madness; madness, I tell ya!!!!!
11-10-2003, 05:51 PM
#10
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Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Glensgages)
Strangely, the exact OPPOSITE is true! Below, I'm posting the 60', 1/8, and 1/4 times/speeds, with the Dawg in BOLD, and mine in ITALICS.
60': 2.125 :chevy 2.158
1/8: 9.634@72.06 :chevy 9.668@71.12
1/4: 15.131@88.65 :chevy 15.131@90.69
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
So, HOW did the Desertdawg out-run an identical-but-deeper-geared-Corvette, to the 60' & 1/8-mile mark, and how did MY car out-MPH an identical-with taller-gears-and free-flowing-exhaust-Corvette on the top-end?
His 80* temps, vs. my 38* weather?
It's madness; madness, I tell ya!!!!!
60': 2.125 :chevy 2.158
1/8: 9.634@72.06 :chevy 9.668@71.12
1/4: 15.131@88.65 :chevy 15.131@90.69
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
So, HOW did the Desertdawg out-run an identical-but-deeper-geared-Corvette, to the 60' & 1/8-mile mark, and how did MY car out-MPH an identical-with taller-gears-and free-flowing-exhaust-Corvette on the top-end?
His 80* temps, vs. my 38* weather?
It's madness; madness, I tell ya!!!!!
11-10-2003, 07:05 PM
#11
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Fevre)
Comparing shift points may help shed some light, you might be over reving. With your steeper gear you can shift earlier and be higher in the powerband then dd if he shifted at the same point. Just a thought. :confused:
THIS year, I kicked the shifter @ 4500 RPM on the 1st two runs, but it proceeded to 5000 RPM before engaging the next gear.
(is this a by-product of the mechanical-advantage gained thru the gear-swap?)
For the remaining 4 runs, I 'shifted' at 5000, and it 'engaged' almost immediately afterward.
5000 RPMs.....a 'screaming Cross-Fire'.....who'da thunk it?
11-10-2003, 10:34 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Glensgages)
I think the differences are the weather and the track. It looks as though you were making more hp but the track wasn't hooking as well. It could also be a function of making more hp and the final drive ratio with the 3.73's allowed you to overpower the rear tires thus giving you slower times to about mid track but the extra hp gave the better mph and matched the E.T. If you didn't adjust your tire pressure then I bet you easily have between .05 to .1 to gain just with that.
11-10-2003, 11:17 PM
#13
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (burners)
burners:
I've never, ever, played with these 'computerized' cars before.
If the computer/ECM/ECU/'what-ever' can compensate for the good-or-bad air, keeping the A/F mixture at a constant 14.7:1 ratio (fattening-up in good/leaning-out in bad), is it possible that the 'air' had little to do with the ET improvement? Anybody know about this possibility?
I know for a fact, that traction was an issue due to the cold track surface; the staff @ PRP busted-hump all day long, but with limited success. On all but the final run, the car just didn't 'go'; felt like the back-end was 'sliding-out'. All future runs will be done on the 26" x 8" 'stickies' sitting in my garage (I shoulda used them THIS time.....)
:banghead: :rolleyes: :crazy: :mad
I've never, ever, played with these 'computerized' cars before.
If the computer/ECM/ECU/'what-ever' can compensate for the good-or-bad air, keeping the A/F mixture at a constant 14.7:1 ratio (fattening-up in good/leaning-out in bad), is it possible that the 'air' had little to do with the ET improvement? Anybody know about this possibility?
I know for a fact, that traction was an issue due to the cold track surface; the staff @ PRP busted-hump all day long, but with limited success. On all but the final run, the car just didn't 'go'; felt like the back-end was 'sliding-out'. All future runs will be done on the 26" x 8" 'stickies' sitting in my garage (I shoulda used them THIS time.....)
:banghead: :rolleyes: :crazy: :mad
11-10-2003, 11:24 PM
#14
Team Owner
Member Since: May 2001
Location: Exiled to Richmond, VA - Finally sold my house in Murfreesboro, TN ?? Corner of "Bumf*&k and 'You've got a purdy mouth'."
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St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Desertdawg)
Here was my best at about 80 degrees.
60--------2.125
1/8-------9.634@72.06
1/4------15.131@88.65
I'm glad you did better, yeah I know, but it's good to hear of the cease fire doing this good... :D
60--------2.125
1/8-------9.634@72.06
1/4------15.131@88.65
I'm glad you did better, yeah I know, but it's good to hear of the cease fire doing this good... :D
In december we will run again and see if we can get the Dawg in the 14.9's.
11-10-2003, 11:28 PM
#15
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (BSeery)
In december we will run again and see if we can get the Dawg in the 14.9's.
:cuss
Thanks a bunch, Bryan.......
11-11-2003, 11:39 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Glensgages)
Glen, the air temperature was a significant factor between the two runs (yours and Desertdawg's). While the computer can adjust for optimum A/F mixture the difference is the density of the air. If you are talking a 50 or 70 degree difference in temperature then that can easily account for a 5 to 10 percent difference in power output. You were making more hp that day and that is why your mph is higher that his.
11-11-2003, 12:31 PM
#17
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (burners)
burners:
Thanks; I expected as much myself...
A friend, equally-as-stupid-as-I about these EFI/computer-controlled cars, thought if the ECM could factor-in elements to keep the A/F ratio @ 14.7:1, it might also be using density altitude, too. I doubted the '82 had THAT kind of technology, but I had to ask.
I didn't use my 'weather-station/ET-prediction calculator' during either the '02, or recent test-n-tune; I left it sitting in the Z28. If I had taken it along, I might be able to 'factor-out' the equation of the 'DA', and get a more 'factual' ET-improvement result.
Currently, traction is THE big concern; I've got a pair of tires, fresh-off a 12-second, '72 Chevelle, with just 6 runs on them, 'waiting' for next season.
My '82 wouldn't 'run-12s' if it was dropped out of a B-17 from an altitude of 1320'...
P.S.: either-way, I'm STILL very imprssed with Desertdawg's ET/MPH figures
[Modified by Glensgages, 11:33 AM 11/11/2003]
Thanks; I expected as much myself...
A friend, equally-as-stupid-as-I about these EFI/computer-controlled cars, thought if the ECM could factor-in elements to keep the A/F ratio @ 14.7:1, it might also be using density altitude, too. I doubted the '82 had THAT kind of technology, but I had to ask.
I didn't use my 'weather-station/ET-prediction calculator' during either the '02, or recent test-n-tune; I left it sitting in the Z28. If I had taken it along, I might be able to 'factor-out' the equation of the 'DA', and get a more 'factual' ET-improvement result.
Currently, traction is THE big concern; I've got a pair of tires, fresh-off a 12-second, '72 Chevelle, with just 6 runs on them, 'waiting' for next season.
My '82 wouldn't 'run-12s' if it was dropped out of a B-17 from an altitude of 1320'...
P.S.: either-way, I'm STILL very imprssed with Desertdawg's ET/MPH figures
[Modified by Glensgages, 11:33 AM 11/11/2003]
11-11-2003, 01:56 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2003
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Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (BSeery)
In december we will run again and see if we can get the Dawg in the 14.9's.
11-12-2003, 12:57 AM
#19
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St. Jude Donor '09
Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Corvette_fetish)
Trying to catch up to my 14.8X eh?
I will pencil the 12th of Dec. on my calender. hope I can make it.... :thumbs:
11-12-2003, 02:06 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
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Re: E.T. results of a stock '82 Cross-Fire with 3.73:1 gears (Desertdawg)
Trying to catch up to my 14.8X eh?
Dan, did you go run your vette already???? I didn't know you went.
I will pencil the 12th of Dec. on my calender. hope I can make it.... :thumbs:
Dan, did you go run your vette already???? I didn't know you went.
I will pencil the 12th of Dec. on my calender. hope I can make it.... :thumbs:
Erase the 12th of Dec. Yesterday when I looked at the Firebird Street Drags schedule for December it showed Fri. the 5th & Fri. the 12th. Today it just shows Fri. the 5th, so I assume they cancelled the 12th. I guess we could shoot for the 5th? Or there's always Speedworld?
