Steve Straus

First off, the unit itself seems to be fine, as well as the mounts, but the u-joints and shafts going to the steering column are frighteningly pathetic, plain and simple. The biggest problem is this double u-joint connecting the shaft to the column, no matter what angle the support bearing is set at, the steering is going to be sloppy. With the support bearing set so that the shaft and joints are at the most obtuse angle allowed, turning the wheel with any sort of gusto results in banging coming out of the double u-joint as a result of it binding.

What is needed to make this system function properly is constant velocity, which is not achievable gracefully with this system. I took a look at new cars with racks in them, and I noticed that they all have a rag joint still. My toyota tacoma and 4runner have a rag joint right on the rack and a single u-joint about halfway up. This eliminates the side to side slop in the shaft and negates the need for a support bearing.

It seems like even a minor amount of research on this might have yielded superior results. I understand that I have a custom application, but only in the sense that I have headers. I removed my header and found that even under stock conditions, this thing will not perform well.

I have banged up my header trying to get this thing to clear, only to find this out, so shame on me for that. At this point, I have to get a new header (modified for the canfields of course) and design my own steering joint. It will consist of a rag joint that connects to the rack itself, a single u-joint and an extension for the steering column shaft. My lathe arrives tomorrow, soon I will be in a position to manufacture a real steering joint for this system.

I know there are going to be folks here that will chime back with "Mine works just fine." I know this, and I don't doubt this will work fine, but lets be honest how long will a u-joint that binds this badly last, and seriously how many miles a year do you drive your car? I invite you to go spin your steering wheel *very* fast back and forth and don't tell me you don't hear that thing banging away under the hood.

The people at Speed Direct have been very helpful and understanding about this, and even sent me a 10" shaft to play with, but I honestly don't think enough effort has been made in designing a quality steering joint.


Flame away.

turtlevette

pack it up and send it to Norvalwilhelm. He'll redesign it and make it work great.

73sbvert

If you don't want it, I'll take it!! Maybe I can get it to do something! :D

Paul
:cheers:

427V8

I designed my own setup, and you've seen the pics.
My u-joints don't bind, and don't have more than 20 degrees on anyof them.
I doubt they'd work with anyone elses headers or with a 4 speed tho.

I like the ragjoint idea. It could easily be put on the rack, but I think I would still need two u-joints to keep theangles down...

Steve Straus

I never got the pics. Could you send them again?

427V8

I'll post em here so everyone can enjoy their splendor ;)

Clickem to enlargem







[Modified by 427V8, 3:30 PM 2/15/2004]

BBShark

Steve, I agree with you 100%. The u-joint angles are excessive. You will find a number of people who are happy with the Steeroids setup but if you search the archives you will find a similar number of people who are not. I ended up putting a C4 column and steering shaft in mine. The C4 column is shorter where it comes through the firewall (decreasing the angle) and the C4 steering shaft includes a rag joint. The C4 coupling is exactly the same as the Steeroids rack input shaft. You will need to shorten the C4 steering shaft, but if you have a lathe, it should be easy.

mrvette

BBShark, I hear you, but I swear I can't see the problems, and I see that 427v8 there did his with 3 joints.....when all i did was angle my input shaft higher by cutting out the back lower engine mount brace edge to allow input shaft/coupling clearance...and then I collapsed the steering coulumn since there is no direct line way to cause problems in a collision....which I might add follows the lead of Ford, GM, Chrysler, IMports upon junkyard product examination...so that to ME meant it was NOT a problem...so forcing the retracting steering shaft toward the firewall happened to work fine for me...
and too boot I have only two universal joints in my hookup....and sure I have a rag joint, but it's a modern unit with small diameter, and from an unknown car....maybe a Lumina something or other....it's NOT critical to have one there far as I can see, just IS because of the oddball parts I picked up at the right price to work with....hell the system was so damn easy to put together I"M paranoid allready.....I fail to see the problems everyone has.....I can see I THINK, from the pix that steeroids needs make longer shaft on top of the first universal...but if that's been tried and still no solution, I dunno....

GENE

BBShark

Gene, I also cut the edge of the motor mount to turn the pinion shaft up (after reading your post on a previous thread). I think that helps considerably and probably should be the first "fix". Anything that straightens the shaft is good in my book. I think the rag joint is not needed it just dampens vibration a little. The C4 column is even closer to the firewall than the collapsed C3 which helps also (but is not a super easy conversion).

Thumper76

I've been looking at the set up on 427V8's Vette. I like the heim joint on the steering shaft. Was it necessary for stabilization of the shaft? Or just an extra precaution? My Steeroids set up is still in the box waiting for me to finish cleaning and painting the frame. I'm following this closely so that I can learn from the brain trust here on CF.

:lurk:

page62

Mine too did not work fine -- and had lots of binding -- upon initial install. I had to move the steering column back to keep the ujoints from binding. There is "play" in the steering column mount under the dash to allow this. SO now there is NO binding whatsoever. The only issue I have is the old creaky steering pump can't keep up when I spin the wheel during a parking manuever -- no big deal.

If you've been in touch with Speed Direct I imagine they already suggested this fix. Admittedly, it took some banging and pounding of the steering column mount at the firewall to get that particular portion to move forward. But at the end of the day it did indeed work. I'll be around (I'm always around) if you'd like more detail on my particular fix... :yesnod:

page62

Looking at the posts, I see that some people mention a 3-ujoint solution. So I'm confused because my system has 3 ujoints: 2 ganged at the steering column, and 1 down by the rack & pinion. My system was purchased just before the new year during the group purchase. Have they upgraded the shaft assembly recently? :confused:

427V8

My setup is homebrew, not a steeriods unit.

I used 3 ujoints cause I bought 3. It would probably work with 2 but what the heck, 3 reduces the angles better. BTW, steeroids uses that double unit where I have 2 back to back, II wanted the design flexibility of seperate units.

The Heim joint is required to stabilise the shaft when you have 3 ujoints. without it the shaft would flop all over the place.

Cutting the engine mount to rotate the rack more was not acceptable for me.

Lastly my steering shaft is clooapsed all the way. the splines are 1/8" away from the collumn...much better angles that way.

78 Vette

I know there are going to be folks here that will chime back with "Mine works just fine." I know this, and I don't doubt this will work fine, but lets be honest how long will a u-joint that binds this badly last, and seriously how many miles a year do you drive your car? I invite you to go spin your steering wheel *very* fast back and forth and don't tell me you don't hear that thing banging away under the hood.

The people at Speed Direct have been very helpful and understanding about this, and even sent me a 10" shaft to play with, but I honestly don't think enough effort has been made in designing a quality steering joint.


Flame away.[/QUOTE] :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: This is what happened with mine the steering binds and the joint needs to be replaced now I drive my car every day not once a year this is why so many people say its so great. They rarely drive I think it is poorly engineered when I confronted them with this problem and complained the told me they would sell me a new joint for a 120.00 :mad :mad :mad It will be a cold day in hell.

427V8

That joint is a standard flaming river unit. The singles are ~$60. The doubles are more but not twice!

Or if you want cheaper look for Borgson(sp?) same stuff but not so shiney...

norvalwilhelm

Look very nice 427V8 and if I was going rap and pinion I would design my own like yours.

Steve I see you are getting a lathe. I got mine this fall and love having it in the shop. So easy to make parts. NOw all you need is a mill and you can produce anything.
I am also glad to see you telling it like to see it.

norvalwilhelm

pack it up and send it to Norvalwilhelm. He'll redesign it and make it work great

Thanks turtlevette but if he packs it up and sends it to me he will never see it again. It would probably end up in my vet.
So steve pack it up and send it to me. I will pay shipping gladly.

Steve Straus

A friend of Mine is giving me a 12" Atlas. The bed is in great shape, but I might have to replace some bearings. My dad is going to inspect it for me and show me what to look for. I plan on doing a lot of reading and taking some machinist classes. I have a drill press on the way. A mill may be a little harder to come by. My utility room in my basement is turning into my machine shop :-).

I'm going to make this unit work. I'll probably put up with it the way it is so I can drive it for now, but I'm not going to leave it that way for long.

78 Vette

Thanks for the heads up 427 Vette I will check it out. It is a matter of principal that I don't send theme any more money.

PROSOUTH

I have not started on my steering conversion yet. Also I am not using Steeroids or a home brew version of it. I am using a 2002 Grand Cherokee Power Steering box. It also will need a set of u-joints to correct angles. It will not be nearly as bad as the angles you guys are working with, but I need space between the box and the column. I purchased a good lower C-3 column to alter. Instead of merely collapsing the column I plan on cutting it and replacing the end until it is flush with the firewall. Has anyone tried this? The more space the better to me.
Jim