DJ Dep

Hehehe...here we go....

I have seen many "excuse" posts on here about how "even though the late 70s Corvettes are slow pigs with Caprice motors for power, at least GM/Chevy still attempted to build a performance car."

THAT is a load of manure!!! The mid-to-late 70s Vettes were Chevy's attempt to keep up with "personal luxury cars". That's what was popular in those years. The REAL performance in GM was NOT at the Chevrolet division, but at the ORIGINATOR of the muscle car concept...PONTIAC!!
While Chevy was busily castrating the 454 with pollution controls and detuning, Pontiac Firebird came out with the Super Duty 455. 315 horsepower, and that was the NEW type of horsepower rating, not the old type. Even in 1977 when the 455 was laid to rest, Pontiac still found ways to up the performance on it's 400 engine. The Pontiac Firebird in 1977 turned a 14.90 in the 1/4 mile with the W72 performance package. Talk about a Vette killer!!! That was a STOCK setup WITHOUT the shaker scoop being openned up. Pontiac finally switched to all smallblock power in 1980.

So please save those BS posts about how grateful we should be that Chevy continued to build "performance" Vettes in those years. It simply AIN'T so, no matter WHAT L-number they are.

And if a '79 or older Trans Am with a T/A 6.6 wants to hammer it out with you through the 1/4...better pass. You'll be dead meat.

Dep

redvetracr

DJ, YOU are a brave boy!! I hope your wearing your NOMEX boxers!!
...redvetracr

DJ Dep

LOL red...yeah well...the truth hurts sometimes. I been in the fire before...I can take it. I got sick of reading the BS posts about favorite boom boxes and Mopar-sized crate motors

Dep

CrossedFlags77

The point of this post was too....all I know is that all Corvettes are Corvettes plain and simple.

sharkthehunter77

hey man, we all know that!!! Remember we all saw "Smokey and the bandit" we know its true! The Burt Reynalds TA's are not only great performers for the era but nearly as cool looking IMHO. People whom have "that" much emotional investment into chevy's have more serious issues in their lives besides cars! The truth is if my 77 didnt look as sexy as it does i wouldn't be driving am American car at all. I switched over to older vettes fom the BMW 3 series ( previous generation) and my 77 was dirt cheap at only $6500 ( now i know why) When you factor in the $6500 plus 4 grand for ported ZZ4 w/385HP/410TQ and another K for having it all dropped in,...hell i should have/could have gotten a chrome bumper big block. Oh well live and learn. Most cheevy vette lovers ( atleast those w/ smog blocks) will sqeeze out of your comparison by claming the vette as the fastest two seater of the era, while the pontiac was designed as a pony car with those two vestigial (sp) back seats.
The vette has been given a social status seldom given to American cars. Although that wouldnt help a stock smog block owner whose just been beaten by a stock Burt Reynalds TA feel any better in the ego department. People just sometimes apply status to things for certain reasons ( cars,houses,boat etc etc etc) and ignore everything else . I sometimes hang around ferrarichat.com just to see how the othr half lives and they are often faced with a similair argument. The Z06 runs with the 360 ( depending on who is talking beats it in some catagories of performance) The smog block vette owner would probably do what the Ferrair owner does, tell himself TA's are for rednecks and he has the classier, better looking (true) better handling car and that chicks dig him!!!
As for me i couldn't care less right now. A stock Burt Reynalds fire chicken that was runnig would be great compared to my prettier, classier, blah blah blah vette sitting down in the parking garage with absolutely no electrical power at all. Yep, no radio, no horn,no starter turnover, no nothing except headlights, hows that for class!

standup

....you forgot to add that Pontiac dust tastes good....

JungleCat

What kind of fool would want a late model C3 to race someone with a faster car with out modifying the C3 in the first place?

Jughead

I have to agree with you Dep. I bought a new 1976 4sp 455 TA for the reasons you stated above. It was the biggest engine I could get. Plus there was no Z-28 either.

DJ Dep

"What kind of fool would want a late model C3 to race someone with a faster car with out modifying the C3 in the first place?"

That's my point. You HAVE to modify a late 70's C3 to come CLOSE to the performance of a STOCK Trans Am.

You guys are just too dang agreeable is the problem

As a side note...the Trans Am in Smokey and the Bandit was NOT a Pontiac engine. It was a 403 Oldsmobile engine with an automatic.
That was actually the standard engine in pollution areas like California.
And the cool engine sounds in the audio of that movie are dubbed in from actual NASCAR engines.

You can tell a Pontiac-engined Trans Am from an Oldsmobile engine from the outside by looking at the hood scoop. On Poncho engines it says T/A 6.6. On Oldsmobile engines it says 6.6 LITRE. With the hood up...the Olds engine has the oil fill at the front of the engine.

Dep

isosceles

I remember reading a TA vs Z28 war in Car and Driver in 76. The slower one was turning high 16's and I think it was the TA (was a huge Pontiac fan back then, drooling over my friend's brothers goats).
Funny because that year the Honda Civic was turning low17

jn76vette

Way to much free time, DJ Dep has a good point though, I looked at alot of 70's F-bodies when I was car shopping three years ago. T/A's were the best performers. Chose the Vette because I've always wanted one, it can made a good performer relatively easily, it was cheaper (most important since I was using my own money), and a lot of kids in my class had their parents buy them a F-body (didn't want to be just another F-body).

DJ Dep

Actually, the article is in 1977 and you have to be VERY careful about those comparisons. Here is what they got for results:

Z/28
1/4 mi
16.3 @ 83.1 mph
0-60 in 8.6 sec

Trans Am
1/4 mi
16.9 @ 82 mph
0-60 in 9.3 sec


What they fail to mention is what the cars were equipped with. Pontiac had THREE engines available in that year. Two Pontiac and one Oldsmobile engine. Plus the gearing and transmission are also critical.
Note that magazine tests also depend a LOT on the drivers doing the testing. And don't think for a minute that advertising from auto makers doesn't have an effect on the results.

Dep

JungleCat

That's my point. You HAVE to modify a late 70's C3 to come CLOSE to the performance of a STOCK Trans Am.

I know what you're saying. I just fell in love with the looks of my '80. I figured performance upgrades could come later.

DJ Dep

No sweat. When you fall in love with a car, none of that other stuff matters anyway



My post was aimed more at those who worship at the altar of the Corvette as being the ONLY performance car of that era. It ain't

Dep

lostpatrolman

LOL dep, seems you still cant start a fire...

oregonsharkman

where i live, most 77 trans-ams are driven by mexican field workers, barely run, are rusted out and are worth about $500...........with my new stroker motor and a total invesment of about $10000 my 76 will be running 12's, has nice paint, new suspension, leather interior in perfect shape, and has been completely "frame on restored"..........So bring on your firechicken Besides my $1500 Honda accord commuter car will run 15's with 140,000 miles and no mods and still get 30 mpg.

76REDSTINGER

1. the t/a will never handle like a vette

2. engine mod...by the factory or by the owner is still an engine mod
so chevy got stupid because of gas prices......i can fix that

3. chicks dig vettes

R.

vttedrm

Actually it was Oldsmobile with the 1949 Rockets that started the muscle car wars. No engine was even close at the time. Then, in 1964 the first 442 came with a front AND rear stabilizer bar. It wasn't until 1969 that the first of the other muscle cars (GTO Judge) added this performance piece.

Yeah, the mid-seventies vette's could have had more power. Actually it's there, under all the pollution divises. Remove the restrictive elements and you can make these cars keep up easily with their earlier brethen. And since the suspension components were better by the mid to late seventies than the sixties or early seventies, you can have a car that performance wise is equal or better than the earlier modles. BTW, Corvette's are not muscle cars, they are sports cars, and while the chrome bumper cars are very good looking, the soft noses are beaut's as well. IMO

DJ Dep

Ah HA!!! The "excuse boys" finally showed up!!!
I knew I could count on them to throw some kindling on the embers. So let's see....

"where i live, most 77 trans-ams are driven by mexican field workers"

Here we have a nice ethnic slur. Someone looking to be banned I assume

"barely run, are rusted out and are worth about $500"
Yes, they DO rust. They are made of metal. The ones that aren't rusted out and/or have been restored are worth a consider chunk MORE than your plastic contraption

"with my new stroker motor and a total invesment of about $10000 my 76 will be running 12's, has nice paint, new suspension, leather interior in perfect shape, and has been completely "frame on restored"..........So bring on your firechicken"

Which, of course, emphasizes my point that the mid-to-late 70s Corvette/Caprices in stock condition are luxury non-performance pigs. Thanks for the confirmation

"1. the t/a will never handle like a vette"

Actually totally incorrect. The T/A competed in Trans Am racing quite successfully back in the early 70s. It can be made to handle VERY well.
Even stock T/As with the right factory suspension options handle very well. Since you said "NEVER" in that statement, that would have to include the newer Trans Ams. You know, the ones they picked to replace the Z-28 at IROC racing


"2. engine mod...by the factory or by the owner is still an engine mod
so chevy got stupid because of gas prices......i can fix that"

ROFL!!!! OH BROTHER!!!! Try selling THAT line next time you race at an NHRA track, or ANY track for that matter. If you are willing to believe that line of poop, then you will be competing against some VERY hot cars. I don't think your Vette is anywhere near as fast as that statement would suggest. Wanna run heads-up against some Pro-Comp cars? I mean, since an engine mod is an engine mod by your definition, that would put them in YOUR class!!!

"3. chicks dig vettes"

Welllllll...if you need a car to pick up a girl...cripes...what can I say?
You must be one FUGLY-looking dood!!!

Dep

DJ Dep

Well, most authorities credit the 1964 Pontiac GTO as being THE first muscle car. Especially since the term wasn't coined until the late 70's.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...finition.shtml

You are correct that the Corvette is a "sports car" and not a muscle car. And certainly, the mid-to-late 70's Vettes HAD NO MUSCLE anyway.

But you are full of horsefeathers if you think just removing the pollution control junk is gonna suddenly "wake up" a Vette with tremendous power. It will take a LOT more than that to get it to keep up with earlier incarnations of it's type. Just roll plastic bumper Vette on a scale if you don't believe me

Sports cars. Maybe LUXURY sports cars is a better description

Dep