Now online: My Trailing Arm rebuild webpage
11-03-2004, 05:42 AM
#21
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Feb 2000
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
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Originally Posted by zwede
Have you noticed this weird thing I saw when greasing the bearings? Both sides did the same thing... set play to 0.001, greased the bearings and suddenly had 0.004. Had to decrease the shim one size and got 0.001-0.0015. I tightened the spindle nut to 100 ft-lbs every time.
In order for the endplay to increase, the distance from the outer faces of the cone’s races increased, or the distance from the inner faces of the cup’s races decreased. The latter is less probable because I assumed you initially installed them fully and squarely, and they were never removed after this. Also, because the entire assembly is never preloaded, there is never a force on the cups which would cause them to move.
Usually the endplay should tighten up once grease is applied due to the extra film thickness on the roller, 4X. Did any grease get squeezed between the spacers? This is hard to control and probably not the cause as 100 lb-ft is a lot of force and would squeeze any grease out resulting in full metal to metal contact. Therefore I also suspect the flatness and parallelism of the shim AND spacer combination. More consistent results could be possible if you marked the relative position of the spacer to shim to bearing, and then lined them up in the same way for every iteration.
Some other questions:
-how easy was to remove the races from the hub?
-what about the outside bearing cone from the spindle?
Last edited by Turbo-Jet; 11-03-2004 at 05:51 AM.
11-03-2004, 11:01 AM
#22
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Solid LT1
I think you should have checked the spindle spacers for parallelisim!
11-03-2004, 11:02 AM
#23
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by WESCH
Hi
Thanks. Great info.
I like grinding out the inner bearing so that it is a light press fit.
Do I get this right? Your grinding the inner race of the bearing, not the spindle itself ?
Thanks. Gunther
Thanks. Great info.
I like grinding out the inner bearing so that it is a light press fit.
Do I get this right? Your grinding the inner race of the bearing, not the spindle itself ?
Thanks. Gunther
11-03-2004, 11:06 AM
#24
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Turbo-Jet
This is very interesting. How repeatable was this? Did you observe just the two instances?
Therefore I also suspect the flatness and parallelism of the shim AND spacer combination.
Some other questions:
-how easy was to remove the races from the hub?
-what about the outside bearing cone from the spindle?
Therefore I also suspect the flatness and parallelism of the shim AND spacer combination.
Some other questions:
-how easy was to remove the races from the hub?
-what about the outside bearing cone from the spindle?
Yeah, I'm getting convinced it was a case of the spacer and/or shim not being parallel.
The races came out fine. Very similar to removing front wheel bearing races.
I used the press for the outer bearing and it came off like expected (no problem). It seems the inner bearing on a stock setup is much tighter than the outer one. This is the reason I feel good about grinding the inner bearing some to lessen the press fit.
11-03-2004, 02:53 PM
#25
Pro
Nice webpage zwede.
I used a slightly different reassembly sequence. After replacing the bearing races and setting up the spacers for proper end play I reassembled the trailing arm except for the spindle and bearings. This included bolting the carrier to the trailing arm and reassembly of the parking brake. It is much easier to torque the carrier nuts and mess with the parking brake with the spindle out of the way. Next I installed the greased outer bearing and seal into the carrier. Then I took my old brake rotor and turned it up side down on the press and set the spindle onto the rotor for support. After placing the trailing arm and carrier over the spindle I used a 6" piece of 1-1/2" galvanized pipe (from home depot) to press on the outer bearing. I used a pipe cap on one end and slightly ground out the inner part of the pipe on the other end to clear the wide part of the axle near the flange. Then I installed the spacer and shim and filled the carrier 80% with grease. Next I pressed on the inner bearing using the previously mentioned pipe and a 2" to 1-1/2" galvanized reducing bushing with the inner threads ground down to clear the axle. Finally I installed the inner seal , dust shield and flange and torqued the flange nut before removing the assembly from the rotor (clamping the old rotor to my work bench made getting to 100 ft. lbs. much easier).
Also, I must have got lucky on the disassembly end because my bearings gave up much easier than yours apparently did.
I used a slightly different reassembly sequence. After replacing the bearing races and setting up the spacers for proper end play I reassembled the trailing arm except for the spindle and bearings. This included bolting the carrier to the trailing arm and reassembly of the parking brake. It is much easier to torque the carrier nuts and mess with the parking brake with the spindle out of the way. Next I installed the greased outer bearing and seal into the carrier. Then I took my old brake rotor and turned it up side down on the press and set the spindle onto the rotor for support. After placing the trailing arm and carrier over the spindle I used a 6" piece of 1-1/2" galvanized pipe (from home depot) to press on the outer bearing. I used a pipe cap on one end and slightly ground out the inner part of the pipe on the other end to clear the wide part of the axle near the flange. Then I installed the spacer and shim and filled the carrier 80% with grease. Next I pressed on the inner bearing using the previously mentioned pipe and a 2" to 1-1/2" galvanized reducing bushing with the inner threads ground down to clear the axle. Finally I installed the inner seal , dust shield and flange and torqued the flange nut before removing the assembly from the rotor (clamping the old rotor to my work bench made getting to 100 ft. lbs. much easier).
Also, I must have got lucky on the disassembly end because my bearings gave up much easier than yours apparently did.
10-03-2011, 05:12 PM
#26
4th Gear
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Nice job Markus. You do excellant work and can tell you put 100% into the things you do.
I use probably the same press you have,20 ton harbor freight? I get some blocking under the bench plates and position the plates under the spindle flange to press out the bearing. The backing plate will get bent but I usually install a new one anyway. Of course, the quality of the replacement plate is no where as good as the original.
I have the tools made for the job which certainly helps. I do not use all of the tools listed in the catalogs,just the spindle knocker to protect the threads when pressing or installing,the setup tool,and the outer bearing puller. I have never used the spindle press or installer. They just sit in the tool box for now.
I think the stock spindles are ok for most of the cars out there. I think the rebuilds quoted all over don't include new spindles. I wasn't too impressed with the new spindles I bought either.Granted, when you start dropping 400+ ft'lb of torque you may have to upgrade things,but I see your point of doing everything since you already have it apart.
Another thing you guys should consider is replacing the studs,either with the stock 7/16-20 or upgrading to 1/2" depending on use and wheels being used.
I agree with you about the poly bushings too. The only poly I use on the cars are the engine and tranny mounts. I like the flare tool you made up. I made one up out of 5/8" steel plate and still need to use a 2' pipe to flare the ends. I'll have to take some pictures for the post on homemade tools.
The last thing I do is hold the front bushing in a vise and clamp on an indicator to check runout. For you guys not familar using an indicator don't trust the magnet alone unless it is super strong. Just leaning on the bench will move it and throw you off.
Again nice job,
Gary
I use probably the same press you have,20 ton harbor freight? I get some blocking under the bench plates and position the plates under the spindle flange to press out the bearing. The backing plate will get bent but I usually install a new one anyway. Of course, the quality of the replacement plate is no where as good as the original.
I have the tools made for the job which certainly helps. I do not use all of the tools listed in the catalogs,just the spindle knocker to protect the threads when pressing or installing,the setup tool,and the outer bearing puller. I have never used the spindle press or installer. They just sit in the tool box for now.
I think the stock spindles are ok for most of the cars out there. I think the rebuilds quoted all over don't include new spindles. I wasn't too impressed with the new spindles I bought either.Granted, when you start dropping 400+ ft'lb of torque you may have to upgrade things,but I see your point of doing everything since you already have it apart.
Another thing you guys should consider is replacing the studs,either with the stock 7/16-20 or upgrading to 1/2" depending on use and wheels being used.
I agree with you about the poly bushings too. The only poly I use on the cars are the engine and tranny mounts. I like the flare tool you made up. I made one up out of 5/8" steel plate and still need to use a 2' pipe to flare the ends. I'll have to take some pictures for the post on homemade tools.
The last thing I do is hold the front bushing in a vise and clamp on an indicator to check runout. For you guys not familar using an indicator don't trust the magnet alone unless it is super strong. Just leaning on the bench will move it and throw you off.
Again nice job,
Gary
