peterbx1

Hi folks,


this is Peter from Switzerland.

You see, we are good with cheese and watches, but when it comes to superchargers, well, at least I prefer american technology.

My ride is a Corvette '69 with a 454 cui engine made '70 with a Holley commander 950 MPFI and is currently pumping out about 550 horses.

Since the fuel prices are going through the roof now, we are about to reach 7 dollars a gallon, uhh, I am currently converting my Corvette to LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) which is a real bargain over here. Since I will have to replace most of the intake parts anyway, this would be the right moment to add a supercharger.... .

So, did anybody here manage to squeeze a centrifugal supercharger underneath the L-88 hood of a BB Corvette C3? I did read the brochures from Vortech and Powercharger, but it is really hard to make out if it would fit at all or which mods would be required. I am only looking for a boost of just 4 to 6 psi to bring me to about 700 horses.

So, if anybody would have some hint, I offer FREE SWISS CHEESE! Thank you very much for any answer.


Cheers


Peter

Corz

http://www.procharger.com/chevy.shtml

stingraymaniac

Are you losing any hp with that convertion?

peterbx1

@Corz,

thank you very much for the link. You see, Vortech has a wide range of superchargers all generally fitting well on the Chevy BB engine, but which one fits into this really crammed engine compartment of a BB corvette make '69? The folks at Prochargers don't seem to be sure themselves and were so kind to send me their brochure, which unfortunately does not give the required details, either. Maybe I should hust remove the hood, hehe...

Cheers


Peter

Corz

Peter, Im sure it would fit, there is a picture of a 64(?) Corvette with the low rise hood and tpi running that blower.

peterbx1

@Stingraymaniac:

Well, naturally aspirated, there would be a powerloss of a little more than 10% compared to gasoline. But: LPG has, depending on the quality which differs from location to location, octane ratings between 97 and 103!

Well, LPG evaporates in the vaporiser, which is heated by the coolant, so there is no intercooling by evaporisation possible after that, anymore.

That's different when running on gasoline, which evaporates somewhere on the way to/in the combustion chamber, you know.

So, LPG has a higher octane rating, but the intake charge gets hotter and less dense, resulting in power loss, and generally LPG contains a little less energy, you simply need more of it, about 15%.


Therefore water injection, for example, seems to be the hot tip to get rid of these negative side effects and beeing able to take full advantage of the higher octane rating allowing higher boost and getting away without any powerloss at all :-)

As I like to say: Pay half the price, get full power, hehe.


Cheers


Peter

peterbx1

Hi Corz,

it really doesn't look bad, I fully agree. The height seems fine, but isn't the C2's engine compartment wider compared to the C3's? And: Whe do have a 400 cui small block on that picture, i got a 454 cui, which is wider and taller, if I am not wrong, but I am not that much of an expert, sadly. On the other hand, the F1 is one the really big superchargers, as it seems, if that one fits there, a smaller could fit here...


Cheers


Peter

Let 'er eat!

I've seen a regular weiand 142 blower with side draft carbs fit. Or just cut a hole like I did
URL: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-2/656511/horg22.jpg

68/70Vette

The L88 hood only adds, I would guess, about 4 to 6 inches (sorry for not talking metric). I've used an L88 hood and the amount of extra clearance isn't that much. You spoke of changing over to gas. and then you spoke about addiing a supercharger (Krompressor). Is the supercharged engine going to run on gas or gasoline? If you're going to spend $1000's of dollars (swiss francs) on a supercharger will it offset the added price of gasoline? If I lived in a world were the price of gasoline was prohibitedly taxed, I would start looking into alternatives. For instance. My Corvettes are not driven that much. Maybe I could just buy zylene and/or tolulene solvents or someother hydrocarbons and then blend them together and arrive at a mixture that was the equivalent of gasoline -- and untaxed-- at with a high octane rating. Buying industrial solvents and other hydrocarbons might be a good way to get around high taxes on gasoline. Anyhow, the liquid hydrocarbons will have a lot more power for your engine than methane/propane/butane gas. I think your delimma will someday be a problem here in the USA. I really think the availabilty of petroleum products will be limited in the future. I'd like to be able to drive my Corvettes 20 years from now. I think it will be a problem to come up with high octane fuel for them in the distant future.

peterbx1

Hi 68/70 Vette,


thank you very much for your comment. The problem you describe is a really tough one over here. On top of the crazy fuel prices, they do everything here to wipe away as many muscle cars off the streets as possible. One way is the mineral oil tax, the other is a motoring tax depending on the displacement of the engine. For a 454 cui engine, this would be about 2500 USD per year just for getting a number plate and beeing allowed to drive around, not including any kind of insurance, which adds up, too! This crazy motoring tax also depends on the level of pollution and engine generates and a chevy big block surely is not the cleanest one.

I plan to use my ride as a daily driver, who knows for how long this will be possible over here.

This idea of using LPG as a fuel only makes sense if you drive a lot and need loads of fuel. Like me. The good thing is, I can switch from gasoline to LPG with a switch on the dashboard while driving and the power advantage produced by the supercharger is very helpful when running on gasoline, too.

To move the gas tank behind the seats and put the large 110l LPG tank into the place where normally the gasoline tank sits was a real pain. On the other hand, I not got a real big tanker :-)


Cheers


Peter

Guru_4_hire

You could look into a whipple twin screw 2.3L kit. that should fit under your hood, and since they are rear entry, and set up for EFI you could retain your EFI.

That "should" fit under your tall L88 hood as its about 10" tall.

here is a link
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1161

MassVette

Whipple is a good choice for the BBC.
I think it will fit, but without the intercooler. The max height allowable from the front china wall of the block (the front underside of the intake manifold) to the underside of the C-3 L-88 hood is 10.5 inches.
The main problem with the roots or screw type blowers on the C-2 or C-3 is that the front crossmember has to be notched to accomodate the lower drive pulley.

P.S.
Someone on here (the C-3 forum) was working on a centrifugal supercharger kit for these cars- can't remember who...........

peterbx1

Sounds nice, the whipple thing. But are you sure the rear entry one will not collide with the distributor? By the way, could I just bolt on my Holley MPFI throttle body and where would my 8 injectors go, can you help?


Cheers


Peter

MassVette

You need to talk to Whipple and get the specifics-
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com
A couple of the guys have used them and LOVE them!

Twin_Turbo

I don't like LPG at all, LPG causes burned valves, hammered out valve seats, usually a car will run good on LPG or gas but not on both. LPG meas you have to have a big *** tank somwhere as the mileage is a lot less than when running gas. The biggest drawback is the butt ugly evaporator you get installed under the hood.

It's your car so more power to you, I just wouldn't do it. I don't think there is a realistic time frame in which you will be able to recoup the investment needed for the entire LPG setup with a vehicle that is only driven o nice sunny days.

peterbx1

Hi Twin_Turbo,


I like your avatar, hehe. Well, I think you can set up an engine to run very well on LPG AND gasoline, but surely it's not plug and play. Since I had to rebuild my engine completely anyway, it was easy for me to prepare my engine with slightly higher compression ratio, thermo barrier coating by camocoat on the piston crowns, combustion chambers, valves, etc. plus a powerfull ignition and other nice gadgets to run my engine that type of 'refinery-waste'.

If it makes sense in money terms really depends on how much you drive, I drive, yes I got the pleasure, to ride my Corvette for 50.000+ miles per year, no kidding. Gasoline is about 7 dollars per gallon over here, LPG about 1.40 to 2 dollars depending on the source.

Well, this makes a difference, but I fully agree that this is a very european thing where people crawl around in micro-cars with micro engines. Look at that SMART engine: 3 cylinders, 698 ccm, that is 43 cui, turbo, nice sweing machine, arrgghh.

No, I won't go there. But, I just can't afford running my Big Block 50.000+ miles per year on gasoline. So, LPG is my saviour, although this big black bottle containing the 88 litres of LPG sitting right behind me makes me a little nervous....

But my LPG dealer told that there is no need to worry. He never ever had a single complaint from anybody who's LPG tank exploded. I got no doubt about that

Oh, a nice link about LPG:

http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesa...cs/jtb_lpg.pdf


Cheers


Peter

ZD75blue

Can your 427 become a 396?

Thats horrible! Tax ya by cubic inches.

Fevre

Sounds like you need to get a 454 small block and tell them it is a 302.

peterbx1

Thank you very much for all your responses. I have just called Whipple and they told me that here is no way the blower would fit underneath a L-88 hood, of a C3. They tried hard, the engineer told, but it simply would be impossible. If you let it stick out of the hood, it would be no issue at all.


Well, this is oh so civilized europe, you see. No big cubes engines, no loud pipes, gasoline 7 Dollars per gallon and nothing beeing allowed to look out the hood like a supercharger or even an air intake of some size. Too dangerous, they say. Somebody you run over with the car might roll over your hood and get hurt, by rolling over the hood

Man, where am I


Cheers


Peter

Ken Lally

Peter you crack me up!