How to de-Bose your ’87 and use the factory wiring.
07-18-2006, 12:33 PM
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How to de-Bose your ’87 and use the factory wiring.
I’m sure someone has already figured this out but here’s my version. This past week I totally removed the Bose radio/amps and put in a Pioneer stereo into my wife’s 87 vette while using the factory harness. I didn’t have to tear the car apart to do it….except for the dash and speaker covers.
Disconnect the battery…. In the dash you’ll need to release, cut, and rewire the pins on the factory radio connector. There are two pairs of bare wires with clear shields on two connectors. I cut these back and taped them off. I removed that pin on the connector using a very tiny screwdriver. Be sure you leave a short pigtail on that pin when you snip off the bare wires. You’ll be soldering one of the wires from the process below to it. There’s a small tab that locks the pin in place. Sliding a small screwdriver alongside the pin will release it. To reinstall you may have to bend this pin out a little.
Then it looks like GM/Bose choose to run with a common ground of some type since two other pairs of the speaker wires were on one pin connector. I snipped off one of these wires and soldered it to the previously removed pin from the bare wires above. If you go to http://www.installdr.com you can make sure you end up with the right pins/wire colors in the right connectors. The goal is to make the GM connector look like a regular non-Bose system. I think I had to remove four pins….probably could have gotten away with only moving two if I snipped the correct wire off in the first place. When I was done any standard or aftermarket radio with an adaptor harness would plug into the factory plug and function normally…..expect for the speakers…read on….you’re not done yet.
On the rear speakers I was able to remove and disassemble the Bose speaker/amp module. (The front doors require a little more patience so work on them last) There are four wires coming to each amp module; power, ground, speaker plus, and speaker minus. Cut all four of these before they enter the amp. You won’t need the power and ground. On the rear modules I disassembled the connector and released these two wires leaving only the speaker signals. On the front speakers I wasn’t able to reach the Bose/GM connector so cut all the wires and just taped up the power and ground. In both cases you have only two wires at each location…these are the speaker signals.
All the speaker wires from the dash radio connector will match the colors in the hyperlink above. They change color at the Bose module connector when they transistion from GM to Bose. I chose to reuse the modified Bose connectors and just observed the color on the GM side of the connector. I soldered the Bose connectors’ wires (minus the previously removed power wires for the amp) right to the speakers while keeping the polarity on the speakers in check on all four speakers. I think I made sure to put the Green wire on the negative of every speaker. I suppose you could cut off the factory harness but I did enough damage up to this point.
I left the amps in the front doors, taped off the power leads and wired the speaker signals to my new speakers.
For speakers I purchased some 4” units and made adaptor plates so I could drop them into the same hole of the Bose enclosures. Basically a big circle with a small circle cut in the middle. I didn’t want to mess with disassembling the door so this was an easy solution. Oddly enough the 4” units sound pretty good in the rear as well. Bose did something right with the enclosure they used.
It all sounds messy but it really starts to make sense once you look at the wire colors on the GM connectors and realize some wires need to be soldered and/or re-pinned and that the wires in the dash are the same wires that arrive at each speaker. You need to be good with a soldering iron and must have heat shrink tubing and it helps to be an electrical engineer. It’s about the quickest fix.
Sorry for the long post but I wish someone told me this before I started instead of having to figure it out myself.
RSlater,
RSmike
P.S. I also installed an aftermarket power antenna….$40 later, a few customizations to the factory parts, a split collar, loc-tite, and wiring….whew!!! you can't even tell it’s an aftermarket.
Disconnect the battery…. In the dash you’ll need to release, cut, and rewire the pins on the factory radio connector. There are two pairs of bare wires with clear shields on two connectors. I cut these back and taped them off. I removed that pin on the connector using a very tiny screwdriver. Be sure you leave a short pigtail on that pin when you snip off the bare wires. You’ll be soldering one of the wires from the process below to it. There’s a small tab that locks the pin in place. Sliding a small screwdriver alongside the pin will release it. To reinstall you may have to bend this pin out a little.
Then it looks like GM/Bose choose to run with a common ground of some type since two other pairs of the speaker wires were on one pin connector. I snipped off one of these wires and soldered it to the previously removed pin from the bare wires above. If you go to http://www.installdr.com you can make sure you end up with the right pins/wire colors in the right connectors. The goal is to make the GM connector look like a regular non-Bose system. I think I had to remove four pins….probably could have gotten away with only moving two if I snipped the correct wire off in the first place. When I was done any standard or aftermarket radio with an adaptor harness would plug into the factory plug and function normally…..expect for the speakers…read on….you’re not done yet.
On the rear speakers I was able to remove and disassemble the Bose speaker/amp module. (The front doors require a little more patience so work on them last) There are four wires coming to each amp module; power, ground, speaker plus, and speaker minus. Cut all four of these before they enter the amp. You won’t need the power and ground. On the rear modules I disassembled the connector and released these two wires leaving only the speaker signals. On the front speakers I wasn’t able to reach the Bose/GM connector so cut all the wires and just taped up the power and ground. In both cases you have only two wires at each location…these are the speaker signals.
All the speaker wires from the dash radio connector will match the colors in the hyperlink above. They change color at the Bose module connector when they transistion from GM to Bose. I chose to reuse the modified Bose connectors and just observed the color on the GM side of the connector. I soldered the Bose connectors’ wires (minus the previously removed power wires for the amp) right to the speakers while keeping the polarity on the speakers in check on all four speakers. I think I made sure to put the Green wire on the negative of every speaker. I suppose you could cut off the factory harness but I did enough damage up to this point.
I left the amps in the front doors, taped off the power leads and wired the speaker signals to my new speakers.
For speakers I purchased some 4” units and made adaptor plates so I could drop them into the same hole of the Bose enclosures. Basically a big circle with a small circle cut in the middle. I didn’t want to mess with disassembling the door so this was an easy solution. Oddly enough the 4” units sound pretty good in the rear as well. Bose did something right with the enclosure they used.
It all sounds messy but it really starts to make sense once you look at the wire colors on the GM connectors and realize some wires need to be soldered and/or re-pinned and that the wires in the dash are the same wires that arrive at each speaker. You need to be good with a soldering iron and must have heat shrink tubing and it helps to be an electrical engineer. It’s about the quickest fix.
Sorry for the long post but I wish someone told me this before I started instead of having to figure it out myself.
RSlater,
RSmike
P.S. I also installed an aftermarket power antenna….$40 later, a few customizations to the factory parts, a split collar, loc-tite, and wiring….whew!!! you can't even tell it’s an aftermarket.
Last edited by RSmike; 07-19-2006 at 12:37 PM.
07-18-2006, 01:26 PM
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Does the 87 Bose have the CDM (tuner) module like the later Delco-Bose Gold Radios did? If so, how did you overcome the wiring junctions there?
07-18-2006, 02:22 PM
#4
Team Owner
Originally Posted by onedef92
Does the 87 Bose have the CDM (tuner) module like the later Delco-Bose Gold Radios did? If so, how did you overcome the wiring junctions there?
That was a better idea starting in 1990.
Personally, I would never use the factory wire... it's junk... and it's so much easier to run new.
07-18-2006, 02:24 PM
#5
Safety Car
Originally Posted by bogus
Personally, I would never use the factory wire... it's junk... and it's so much easier to run new.
I ripped out all the old wire and ran new ones.
07-18-2006, 03:20 PM
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I don't recommend reusing the Bose pre-amp wiring for any sort of higher end stereo system, its a very small guage (22?). (Although most high end systems would probably have a seperate amp anyways).
Also, don't the rear speakers connect together with a single (-) wire, and that runs to the dash? Is it okay to use a common wire for both rear speakers in a stereo setup?
I do recall the fronts having their own (-) wires, and just tying together at the bose headunit connector.
Also, don't the rear speakers connect together with a single (-) wire, and that runs to the dash? Is it okay to use a common wire for both rear speakers in a stereo setup?
I do recall the fronts having their own (-) wires, and just tying together at the bose headunit connector.
07-19-2006, 09:21 AM
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In the wife's 87...the front AND rear speakers are common but it's done right at the dash connector. All you have to do is take them apart at the connector and you have two unique wires to each speaker. The GM wires are all there. They just need to be put in the right spot on the connector. It helps to have a digital volt-ohm meter to verify.
As for wire gauge. Electrically speaking the most RMS power that you'll get out of any factory amp is about 30 watts. Depends what you use for a system voltage and speaker impedance to do the calculations. It's all about the math. Forget about peak power because it's just a way of fooling people using the math. So 18 gauge wire is more than plenty for 30 watts. Unless the head unit has an RMS rating of 100 watts then 18 gauge will be fine. The guy selling you Munster cable is just trying to make the sale. However you'll want to use larger wire on subs fed by an aftermarket amp.
I've compared good wire to alleged junk wire in an anechoic chamber. Believe me you cannot tell the difference. Only your wallet can. Crusing down the road at 55mph you won't be able to tell if you have 18ga wire or 12ga wire or GM wire or Munster wire. In short use your GM wiring and save the hassel of stringing wire and save some $$. However if you're independently weathly then spend, spend, spend. I used to sell mobile audio equipment. I loved to sell the expensive wire to people that thought it was better because I made more money selling it. Sure the purple or pink wire looks cool but it all sounds the same.
I thought about using the Bose power leads to install an amp in a sub box in the rear. The Bose wire for the amp turn on relay is in the dash as well. It's the single wire....I think it's by itself and pink. There's probably enough current there to run a SMALL sub amp.
As far as spare parts; the factory radio and most of the amps were toast. Intermittant problems on the radio and amps. Bose speakers were also falling apart. Wife also wants to keep a box of 'things from the vette'
Wife is happy since radio now makes noise. She did have a fit when I inserted a torch into the dash to reform the rear area where the antenna radio connector attached.
I also add a small square button between the cup holders to bypass the power antenna. The wife didn't want the antenna going up and down all the time. Who listens to radio anyway?
RSlater,
RSmike
As for wire gauge. Electrically speaking the most RMS power that you'll get out of any factory amp is about 30 watts. Depends what you use for a system voltage and speaker impedance to do the calculations. It's all about the math. Forget about peak power because it's just a way of fooling people using the math. So 18 gauge wire is more than plenty for 30 watts. Unless the head unit has an RMS rating of 100 watts then 18 gauge will be fine. The guy selling you Munster cable is just trying to make the sale. However you'll want to use larger wire on subs fed by an aftermarket amp.
I've compared good wire to alleged junk wire in an anechoic chamber. Believe me you cannot tell the difference. Only your wallet can. Crusing down the road at 55mph you won't be able to tell if you have 18ga wire or 12ga wire or GM wire or Munster wire. In short use your GM wiring and save the hassel of stringing wire and save some $$. However if you're independently weathly then spend, spend, spend. I used to sell mobile audio equipment. I loved to sell the expensive wire to people that thought it was better because I made more money selling it. Sure the purple or pink wire looks cool but it all sounds the same.
I thought about using the Bose power leads to install an amp in a sub box in the rear. The Bose wire for the amp turn on relay is in the dash as well. It's the single wire....I think it's by itself and pink. There's probably enough current there to run a SMALL sub amp.
As far as spare parts; the factory radio and most of the amps were toast. Intermittant problems on the radio and amps. Bose speakers were also falling apart. Wife also wants to keep a box of 'things from the vette'
Wife is happy since radio now makes noise. She did have a fit when I inserted a torch into the dash to reform the rear area where the antenna radio connector attached.
I also add a small square button between the cup holders to bypass the power antenna. The wife didn't want the antenna going up and down all the time. Who listens to radio anyway?
RSlater,
RSmike
07-19-2006, 05:27 PM
#8
Team Owner
My problem isn't the gauge of the wire, it's the AGE of the wire.
That stuff is now 20 years old, and has tarnished some. I have seen it (not yours, but others). And that tarnish will effect sound and can add to the noise picked up by the system.
I also don't like messing with stiff wire, either.
Finally, even tho I hate bose, I would rather leave the factory harnesses alone, so if the need or desire to return to stock was present, at least it wouldn't require fixing that.
As for common grounds, I hate them. AMC used them from the 70s on, and they were a pain in the ***... left and right common ground, nothing in the aftermarket used common ground, so I got used to rewiring at an early age.
Good 16 gauge isn't that expensive, really. A 100' roll is about $20.00 in bulk. If you think that's a rip off, well, fine, but I think it's a good investment... if only because if something is wrong with the system, at least my wiring can't be blamed.
I don't support the theory that huge wire is the cure-all, and I am aware that wire size at low wattage means nothing... but I do believe in making my life easier, and stringing new wire isn't that hard.
That stuff is now 20 years old, and has tarnished some. I have seen it (not yours, but others). And that tarnish will effect sound and can add to the noise picked up by the system.
I also don't like messing with stiff wire, either.
Finally, even tho I hate bose, I would rather leave the factory harnesses alone, so if the need or desire to return to stock was present, at least it wouldn't require fixing that.
As for common grounds, I hate them. AMC used them from the 70s on, and they were a pain in the ***... left and right common ground, nothing in the aftermarket used common ground, so I got used to rewiring at an early age.
Good 16 gauge isn't that expensive, really. A 100' roll is about $20.00 in bulk. If you think that's a rip off, well, fine, but I think it's a good investment... if only because if something is wrong with the system, at least my wiring can't be blamed.
I don't support the theory that huge wire is the cure-all, and I am aware that wire size at low wattage means nothing... but I do believe in making my life easier, and stringing new wire isn't that hard.
07-20-2006, 09:21 PM
#9
Not to be a smart aleck or anything but this seems like an awfully lot of trouble to go through for a new sound system. I had a new Alpine MP3 CD player installed in my 87. It took the guy 20 minutes and it only cost me around $200.00 and that is with the extra Bose harness. The sound is incredible compared to the old stock system. That is about the only thing on my 87 that is not stock. Just my .02 worth.
07-21-2006, 01:56 AM
#10
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im not 100% positive for your year but i have a 93 bose and also work at circuit city, and we have been trying to find a nice wireing harness and we tracked one down that does work came out few months ago if u want let me know and i will check tomorrow and post brand and modle number plus price or see if the can find one that will work for you.
Myself i think im going to go with the eclipse 4000 since its close to the same orange color and will still work with all orignal wireing. just my two cents...
Myself i think im going to go with the eclipse 4000 since its close to the same orange color and will still work with all orignal wireing. just my two cents...
07-21-2006, 02:28 AM
#11
Team Owner
Sorry i'm not going to read what you wrote, but I will say this. Been there, dont that. Listen to Bogus, I used the factory wiring and yes, my new system worked, but at the cost of sound quality. I ran new wire and it sounds amazing. Its not as easy as it sounds though, but its worth it.
07-21-2006, 08:10 AM
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This whole replacement project in my wife's vette was due to busted head unit and three of the Bose Amps/Speaker either not working or damaged speakers. For $250 and a little patience I think it was a cheap victory versus trying to repair the Bose stuff. If you are lucky enough to have four working amps and speakers then go for the Bose converter. It'll be about a 20 minute install just like Mr. Stargazer sez....
RSlater,
RSmike
RSlater,
RSmike
