dizwiz24

My starter is acting weird.

sometimes it will crank, the other times it will click.

if i wait a min or two, it will then crank

key on/engine off batt voltage shows 12.2 v - so batt isnt the problem

I want to experiment with this more before saying for sure have an issue.

that said, any reason i cant bump start (ie. Park on a hill, turn key on, roll the vehicle, then release the clutch in 1st (usually 2nd is best/ smoother) , and then the engine magicallt starts?

ive done this on other cars (ex. 4 banger toyota and honda), but never my c4

would it hurt anything?

ajp01

I can only think of one thing and it's mostly unique to our clutch / flywheel situation in the ZF6 cars. When you bump the car, the drivetrain will send a clutch input shock that is opposite to the normal stresses on your dual mass flywheel. In other words, it will stress the rubber mass in the flywheel but in the opposite direction to normal. Since these flywheels are no longer made new, I would hesitate on treating mine this way. It may speed up the deterioration of the elastic mass in the DMF, which is eventually where they die anyway when that rubber and packing loses its grip on the friction mass surface.

Anyone else got any ideas on this or other downsides?

Tom400CFI

I don't think that's a down side. It's no different than down shifting w/o rev matching....and letting the clutch out.

Plus, I think the damper in the flywheel is a steel cold spring, isn't it?

I've roll started my car a bunch of times...some times I just do it, to do it. 203k miles....no issues yet.

ajp01

If it works for you then cool.

dizwiz24

yes! I like how you do it just to do it.

ill never forget in high school, we saw my friends brother in a dodge omni (it was 1992), oddly stuck out in the middle of the school parking lot.

we didnt know it at the time, but his batt was dead.

we thought it would be funny to push the car, he had his foot on the clutch trying to start it.

To our amusement, the car began to roll and he must have ‘panicked’ and released the clutch

The car started. He drove away. We figured we annoyed him and he started the car/left.

he later on told us what had happened (batt dead) and that we somehow started him up. He was kind of amazed (not a real car savvy guy)

that was my first experience

Tom400CFI

Definitely a nice option to have. With an auto, when you're dead....you're dead.

topfuel67

For your starter issue, the solenoid in it is going bad. It will get to the point where it won't start unless you smack it with a hammer and then that won't even help. New starter time.

Chris44m

I cant see how it would hurt anything, I roll started every manual vehicle i owned at one time or another. Hell if my Battery was dead, my buddies and i would push the thing on a straight, and id jump in and throw it in gear and dump the clutch.

we were fearless in those days. drive it around with a dead Battery, just park the thing on a grade.

dizwiz24

yeah, im going to follow the FSM fo see wht all i need to do to find out whats wrong

WVZR-1

Do you believe that the starter is the original OR do you know it's been replaced before?

If there's a starter/alternator shop that maybe does 'local' fleet maintenance they would have parts and be able to do a proper 'load-test' to evaluate yours. A DIY for the solenoid plunger and contacts is pretty straight forward and inexpensive. That DIY makes most functional. At this age if it is original, brushes and other internal maintenance might be suggested. A proper 'load-test' might do well for diagnostics.

If you decide the DIY solenoid and contacts try to buy locally. There's a couple plunger lengths and actually the copper washer contact on the plunger can likely be purchased locally also.

dizwiz24

Would you guys roll-start in first or second?

for some of the 4 bangers ive done it on, with real low (high numerical) 1st gears, ive roll started them in 2nd

im guessing since our first gear isnt super high numerically, we’d do it in first

(2nd, the rpm would be so low it’d be bogging and wanting to stall out)

topfuel67

The way my 92 feels with a zf6 and 3.45 rear I would (if I were to) use first and push the clutch pedal back in once it starts. I agree that these are geared really low numerically in first. It is a 2.66 first gear in the tranny. So it is very close for its first gear ratio as an auto trans (3.0x first) with 3.07 rear end gears. Most other 6 speeds start with a 3:1 first gear or better. I don't know why GM went with such a numerically low first with this 6 speed.

Tom400CFI

LOVE IT!!! I used to have a CJ5 that fit that bill. In that case, IIRC it was a bad starter. I drove it all summer that way, one year. Occasionally, I'd forget and park it on a flat. Then do the push real hard....run, push, jump in, gear, clutch VROOOM! Off I'd go.

rocco16

Then experiment by trying a fully-charged battery.
A fully-charged battery should show at least 12.8VDC.
It's possible that your charging system is not allowing the battery to reach full charge, but the symptoms you describe tell me "low battery".

64Scout

I had the same issue, and the solution (for me) was to replace the copper contacts in the solenoid. I saw no reason to replace a good Delco starter with a $150 chinese one. My cost was $5 for parts.

WVZR-1

While this makes most 'denso starters 'functional' it's maybe a bit less than perhaps best advised with a higher mileage/older starter. Granted that for anything other than the LT5 a starter is a relatively 'simple' removal.

ajp01

If your original OEM 'Denso starter is not all corroded to hell and hasn't been in harsh conditions all its 150K life, then the solenoid contact rebuild is an option. But if the starter is all jacked up then a good rebuild is best.

belairbrian

My 92 had the same issue until i rebuilt the solenoid. Here are some side by sides of what i found

this is the kit i used
That was 4 years ago and not a problem since.

WVZR-1

Not actually 'rebuilt' but serviced with the typical parts that return a typical 'denso to service.

Those parts including the bolt for the contact(that I doubt was included) are likely available 'locally' for similar $$$ or maybe less. There's been issues with plunger length mentioned in the past and the washer/contact on it is likely available.

dizwiz24

tell me more.

where is this solenoid located and how difficult / what instructions did you use to replace these parts