Anyone Use Freeze 12 in A/C?
05-07-2008, 10:30 AM
#1
CF JASOC Member
Thread Starter
Anyone Use Freeze 12 in A/C?
05-07-2008, 10:38 AM
#2
Race Director
All C4's are designed to handle R134a well. Go to an auto parts store and buy the kit to convert over. There is really no advantage to running Freeze 12, AC shops usually charge extra for serviceing it.
05-07-2008, 11:47 AM
#4
I just did the same post a week ago. If you are currently running R12 and have no leaks or problems just go to a shop that is still authorized to service R12 and have them check your system and give it a recharge. No sense changing there is still plenty of places who will service your A/C. This is what I am deciding to do after my research on this forum. just my 2cents.
05-07-2008, 12:44 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Feb 2005
Location: Sebastian Florida
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St. Jude Donor '06
2nd, the r134 compressor is bigger than the r12; not sure why this is, but it is bigger.
Check w/Suncr for more indepth info, he is the expert in this forum.
05-08-2008, 10:27 AM
#7
Instructor
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ive used freeze 12 and its fine and i have converted alot too. i converted my 85 to 134 and it has no problems, just get your system evacked and you will be good to go
05-09-2008, 02:44 AM
#9
Race Director
I converted my 84 to R134A in 2000. Replaced compressor, accumulator/drier, O-rings, and orifice tube. Vacuumed system, charged with PAG oil and R134A to 80% of R-12 rating. Took me an afternoon in my garage. Blows 43 degrees at the vent. How much colder would you want it?
In the 8 years since the conversion, I've added one can of R134A. I see no reason not to convert.
In the 8 years since the conversion, I've added one can of R134A. I see no reason not to convert.
05-09-2008, 05:23 PM
#10
Freeze 12 is not a good replacement for r-12, more like a bandaid. I don't recommend it but a lot of people use it. The fact is that there is no real replacement for r-12. R-134 uses different components because its....different, smaller molecules, can leak through the old hoses, isn't as effecient as R-12, etc.
05-09-2008, 06:22 PM
#11
Racer
Why not buy R-12 as the system was originally designed for at GM?
Or do what Frizlefrak did and replace all the components and do the conversion the right way.
If you want to be able to legally purchase R-12 refrigerant you'll have to get certified.
Go to http://macsw.org/certification.php
and get certified for $15. Online, open book test! Print out your certification online when you pass and they also mail you a wallet card and wall size certificate.
Shops do still recharge and auto parts stores carry R-12 refrigerant. Most auto parts stores carry the 12 or 14 oz. small cans and sometimes the 30# cylinders.
Full retail at Auto Zone and O'Riley's auto parts here in Houston is $30-$38 for a 12 oz. can.
Just don't use any Freeze 12 or mixture/add in type refrigerants. They are not SNAP approved by the EPA even though they are sold all over the place. The Freeze 12 is a mixture and is NOT good for your system.
Read up on the details from here:
http://www.macsw.org/pdf/CertmanualENG.pdf
And for the best auto AC forum:
http://www.autoacforum.com/categories.cfm?catid=2
Blend refrigerants (Freeze12)contain more than one refrigerant, and have a bubble and dew pressure values that affects A/C controls. This bubble and dew characteristic of blends results in a temperature difference across the evaporator and condenser known as “glide.” The auto industry doesn’t design
automotive A/C systems to use blend refrigerants. Installing blend refrigerants with the original A/C system refrigerant controls (expansion valves, pressure controls) could cause system performance problems. The automotive industry has always used single composition refrigerants such as R12 and R134a.
From the
Certification Training Manual
Refrigerant Recycling & Service Procedures
For Automotive Air Conditioning Technicians
*approved by US EPA for technician training requirements under section 609 of the Clean Air Act.
Download the manual here:
http://www.macsw.org/pdf/CertmanualENG.pdf
From the
Certification Training Manual
Refrigerant Recycling & Service Procedures
For Automotive Air Conditioning Technicians
*approved by US EPA for technician training requirements under section 609 of the Clean Air Act.
Download the manual here:
http://www.macsw.org/pdf/CertmanualENG.pdf
Page 26 of manual quote:
System Changes
Changes were required for HFC-134a systems to assure performance equal to systems using CFC-12.
Changes include new hose and seal materials which are compatible with the new refrigerant and lubricant. This includes new hose construction to reduce hose leakage, and a new desiccant material in the accumulator or receiver/dryer for reduction of moisture level in the system.
The most noticeable change, however, is the increased condenser capacity, or increased air flow, to reduce system pressures at low speed operation and city traffic conditions. In general, condenser performance has been increased by approximately 30%, which results in comparable performance for HFC-134a systems as experienced in CFC-12 systems.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/609.html
Or do what Frizlefrak did and replace all the components and do the conversion the right way.
If you want to be able to legally purchase R-12 refrigerant you'll have to get certified.
Go to http://macsw.org/certification.php
and get certified for $15. Online, open book test! Print out your certification online when you pass and they also mail you a wallet card and wall size certificate.
Shops do still recharge and auto parts stores carry R-12 refrigerant. Most auto parts stores carry the 12 or 14 oz. small cans and sometimes the 30# cylinders.
Full retail at Auto Zone and O'Riley's auto parts here in Houston is $30-$38 for a 12 oz. can.
Just don't use any Freeze 12 or mixture/add in type refrigerants. They are not SNAP approved by the EPA even though they are sold all over the place. The Freeze 12 is a mixture and is NOT good for your system.
Read up on the details from here:
http://www.macsw.org/pdf/CertmanualENG.pdf
And for the best auto AC forum:
http://www.autoacforum.com/categories.cfm?catid=2
Blend refrigerants (Freeze12)contain more than one refrigerant, and have a bubble and dew pressure values that affects A/C controls. This bubble and dew characteristic of blends results in a temperature difference across the evaporator and condenser known as “glide.” The auto industry doesn’t design
automotive A/C systems to use blend refrigerants. Installing blend refrigerants with the original A/C system refrigerant controls (expansion valves, pressure controls) could cause system performance problems. The automotive industry has always used single composition refrigerants such as R12 and R134a.
From the
Certification Training Manual
Refrigerant Recycling & Service Procedures
For Automotive Air Conditioning Technicians
*approved by US EPA for technician training requirements under section 609 of the Clean Air Act.
Download the manual here:
http://www.macsw.org/pdf/CertmanualENG.pdf
From the
Certification Training Manual
Refrigerant Recycling & Service Procedures
For Automotive Air Conditioning Technicians
*approved by US EPA for technician training requirements under section 609 of the Clean Air Act.
Download the manual here:
http://www.macsw.org/pdf/CertmanualENG.pdf
Page 26 of manual quote:
System Changes
Changes were required for HFC-134a systems to assure performance equal to systems using CFC-12.
Changes include new hose and seal materials which are compatible with the new refrigerant and lubricant. This includes new hose construction to reduce hose leakage, and a new desiccant material in the accumulator or receiver/dryer for reduction of moisture level in the system.
The most noticeable change, however, is the increased condenser capacity, or increased air flow, to reduce system pressures at low speed operation and city traffic conditions. In general, condenser performance has been increased by approximately 30%, which results in comparable performance for HFC-134a systems as experienced in CFC-12 systems.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/609.html
04-09-2010, 08:34 PM
#12
If im not mistaken freeze-12 is partially R-22.. as ive found with all the drop-in R12 replacements that contain R-22 it is not kind to General Motors compressors..
I cannot remember which compressor the 85-Vette uses but I think it is the GM R-4 compressor (little pancake compressor).. these drop ins almost always spell disaster for that radial compressor.....
I cannot remember which compressor the 85-Vette uses but I think it is the GM R-4 compressor (little pancake compressor).. these drop ins almost always spell disaster for that radial compressor.....
