New bubbles, old paint, huh?
06-16-2010, 05:02 PM
#1
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New bubbles, old paint, huh?
When I painted my 1986 Corvette, the shop sanded the car a little too much on that gorgeous curve where the hood becomes fender above the tires. A year later I had tiny bubbles in those spots anytime it got hot outside.
After talking to twenty pros, someone suggested that they had inadvertently sanded through the gelcoat and exposed some of the fibers in the fiberglass, then unknowingly painted over them. Anytime it got hot out, the air in the fiberglass strands would push the paint making a bunch of tiny bubbles. When it cooled off they went away.
That car got wrecked in 2001 and I replaced it with a 1990 coupe. I could tell the front end had been repainted but it looked and drove well, and I wasn't concerned.
Early last year the paint on the hood began to oxidize. I buffed it repeatedly but the oxidation kept returning. I soon found myself wearing through the clear coat in a few spots and decided to stop. I left Florida in October for business in California, so I put a car cover over it and left it in my driveway.
Three weeks ago I finally uncovered my Vette. I could not believe how badly the paint deteriorated! Most of the clear coat is GONE on the hood, and the oxidation has spread to the quarter panels.
I took a close look at the hood. Right on that same spot as my 1986, I have those same tiny little bubbles pushing up the paint!
It can't be a bad prep job, because the car never exhibited this problem until this year, and I've had it for almost ten years. I intend to have a body shop in Florida paint the top half of the car for me and then I want to ship it to California so I can drive it.
What could cause those tiny bubbles? More importantly, what should I tell the body shop to make sure they don’t reappear after I get a fresh coat?
After talking to twenty pros, someone suggested that they had inadvertently sanded through the gelcoat and exposed some of the fibers in the fiberglass, then unknowingly painted over them. Anytime it got hot out, the air in the fiberglass strands would push the paint making a bunch of tiny bubbles. When it cooled off they went away.
That car got wrecked in 2001 and I replaced it with a 1990 coupe. I could tell the front end had been repainted but it looked and drove well, and I wasn't concerned.
Early last year the paint on the hood began to oxidize. I buffed it repeatedly but the oxidation kept returning. I soon found myself wearing through the clear coat in a few spots and decided to stop. I left Florida in October for business in California, so I put a car cover over it and left it in my driveway.
Three weeks ago I finally uncovered my Vette. I could not believe how badly the paint deteriorated! Most of the clear coat is GONE on the hood, and the oxidation has spread to the quarter panels.
I took a close look at the hood. Right on that same spot as my 1986, I have those same tiny little bubbles pushing up the paint!
It can't be a bad prep job, because the car never exhibited this problem until this year, and I've had it for almost ten years. I intend to have a body shop in Florida paint the top half of the car for me and then I want to ship it to California so I can drive it.
What could cause those tiny bubbles? More importantly, what should I tell the body shop to make sure they don’t reappear after I get a fresh coat?
06-16-2010, 06:11 PM
#3
Drifting
someone recently pointed out to me that there is a paint section here on the forum. It is under general corvette on the drop down menu. You may find more people there that can help you. Good luck
06-16-2010, 06:36 PM
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I wonder if anyone actually reads that section . . .
06-16-2010, 09:28 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
When I painted my 1986 Corvette, the shop sanded the car a little too much on that gorgeous curve where the hood becomes fender above the tires. A year later I had tiny bubbles in those spots anytime it got hot outside.
After talking to twenty pros, someone suggested that they had inadvertently sanded through the gelcoat and exposed some of the fibers in the fiberglass, then unknowingly painted over them. Anytime it got hot out, the air in the fiberglass strands would push the paint making a bunch of tiny bubbles. When it cooled off they went away.
That car got wrecked in 2001 and I replaced it with a 1990 coupe. I could tell the front end had been repainted but it looked and drove well, and I wasn't concerned.
Early last year the paint on the hood began to oxidize. I buffed it repeatedly but the oxidation kept returning. I soon found myself wearing through the clear coat in a few spots and decided to stop. I left Florida in October for business in California, so I put a car cover over it and left it in my driveway.
Three weeks ago I finally uncovered my Vette. I could not believe how badly the paint deteriorated! Most of the clear coat is GONE on the hood, and the oxidation has spread to the quarter panels.
I took a close look at the hood. Right on that same spot as my 1986, I have those same tiny little bubbles pushing up the paint!
It can't be a bad prep job, because the car never exhibited this problem until this year, and I've had it for almost ten years. I intend to have a body shop in Florida paint the top half of the car for me and then I want to ship it to California so I can drive it.
What could cause those tiny bubbles? More importantly, what should I tell the body shop to make sure they don’t reappear after I get a fresh coat?
After talking to twenty pros, someone suggested that they had inadvertently sanded through the gelcoat and exposed some of the fibers in the fiberglass, then unknowingly painted over them. Anytime it got hot out, the air in the fiberglass strands would push the paint making a bunch of tiny bubbles. When it cooled off they went away.
That car got wrecked in 2001 and I replaced it with a 1990 coupe. I could tell the front end had been repainted but it looked and drove well, and I wasn't concerned.
Early last year the paint on the hood began to oxidize. I buffed it repeatedly but the oxidation kept returning. I soon found myself wearing through the clear coat in a few spots and decided to stop. I left Florida in October for business in California, so I put a car cover over it and left it in my driveway.
Three weeks ago I finally uncovered my Vette. I could not believe how badly the paint deteriorated! Most of the clear coat is GONE on the hood, and the oxidation has spread to the quarter panels.
I took a close look at the hood. Right on that same spot as my 1986, I have those same tiny little bubbles pushing up the paint!
It can't be a bad prep job, because the car never exhibited this problem until this year, and I've had it for almost ten years. I intend to have a body shop in Florida paint the top half of the car for me and then I want to ship it to California so I can drive it.
What could cause those tiny bubbles? More importantly, what should I tell the body shop to make sure they don’t reappear after I get a fresh coat?
That is a text book example of what happens when you use a combo of cheap products and a horrible painter.
Everything you described can be explained.
1st: C4's did not use a gel-coat. They are made from a product called SMC fiberglass and are smooth from the manufacturing process. A gel coat would not stick to SMC (well)
2nd: The first sign of something wrong is the changing paint. Paint should not change from hot to cold. Ever! That is a classic example of bad mixed paint. Someone mixed something wrong and your basecoat is still WET. The solvents in the base are eating at the bottom side of the clear coat.
The bubbles are from "solvent pop" It happens with the primer/base is not cured before the clear coat is applied.
The oxidation your talking about is the solvents from the base/primer working their way through the clear coat causing it to break down and look like crap. When you coved the car you put it in a perfect situation to fail.
I feel for whom ever has to paint it. Once they sand the clear and hit the base/primer it is going to turn to gel. The whole car will need to be striped with a chemical striper or the problem will continue even with new paint.
06-17-2010, 04:48 PM
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That is a text book example of what happens when you use a combo of cheap products and a horrible painter.
Everything you described can be explained.
1st: C4's did not use a gel-coat. They are made from a product called SMC fiberglass and are smooth from the manufacturing process. A gel coat would not stick to SMC (well)
2nd: The first sign of something wrong is the changing paint. Paint should not change from hot to cold. Ever! That is a classic example of bad mixed paint. Someone mixed something wrong and your basecoat is still WET. The solvents in the base are eating at the bottom side of the clear coat.
The bubbles are from "solvent pop" It happens with the primer/base is not cured before the clear coat is applied.
The oxidation your talking about is the solvents from the base/primer working their way through the clear coat causing it to break down and look like crap. When you coved the car you put it in a perfect situation to fail.
I feel for whom ever has to paint it. Once they sand the clear and hit the base/primer it is going to turn to gel. The whole car will need to be striped with a chemical striper or the problem will continue even with new paint.
Everything you described can be explained.
1st: C4's did not use a gel-coat. They are made from a product called SMC fiberglass and are smooth from the manufacturing process. A gel coat would not stick to SMC (well)
2nd: The first sign of something wrong is the changing paint. Paint should not change from hot to cold. Ever! That is a classic example of bad mixed paint. Someone mixed something wrong and your basecoat is still WET. The solvents in the base are eating at the bottom side of the clear coat.
The bubbles are from "solvent pop" It happens with the primer/base is not cured before the clear coat is applied.
The oxidation your talking about is the solvents from the base/primer working their way through the clear coat causing it to break down and look like crap. When you coved the car you put it in a perfect situation to fail.
I feel for whom ever has to paint it. Once they sand the clear and hit the base/primer it is going to turn to gel. The whole car will need to be striped with a chemical striper or the problem will continue even with new paint.
Gee, that sounds pretty bad. Thank you for clearing up the SMC panel thing. I've had those terms thrown around but never followed up. At least now I know gel-coat is not something I need to be concerned about.
That said, are you certain the oxidation is from a bad mix? I've had this car for eight or nine years and didn't have any trouble till last year. The previous owner probably had it for three years, and I had the impression it was the original owner who had the front end repainted. Your explanation would fit the bill for my first Vette - it exhibited problems within the first year of being painted, but I've had this Vette a long time and the paint looked really good.
06-17-2010, 05:15 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Gee, that sounds pretty bad. Thank you for clearing up the SMC panel thing. I've had those terms thrown around but never followed up. At least now I know gel-coat is not something I need to be concerned about.
That said, are you certain the oxidation is from a bad mix? I've had this car for eight or nine years and didn't have any trouble till last year. The previous owner probably had it for three years, and I had the impression it was the original owner who had the front end repainted. Your explanation would fit the bill for my first Vette - it exhibited problems within the first year of being painted, but I've had this Vette a long time and the paint looked really good.
That said, are you certain the oxidation is from a bad mix? I've had this car for eight or nine years and didn't have any trouble till last year. The previous owner probably had it for three years, and I had the impression it was the original owner who had the front end repainted. Your explanation would fit the bill for my first Vette - it exhibited problems within the first year of being painted, but I've had this Vette a long time and the paint looked really good.
Do you have any pictures of the damage? If I can see it I can prob tell you what happened, Although somewhat possible, I highly doubt it was caused by a bad mix like I said earlier. Not after 8 years. I originally thought you where saying it was painted 8 years ago and has looked bad ever since.
It is possible that it was just time for the paint to go. 8 years from a paint job is not bad, But not real good either. If they used cheap materials, 8 years would have been good. But if they used high end materials then something else went wrong.
Are you sure they used a base coat/ Clear coat and not a single stage?
Single stage paints will loose their luster quickly if polished and form a white haze over it if it is not polished about every 6 months.
If it is a metallic color then it is not possible for it to be a single stage and polished. Because You cant polish single stage metallic colors because it will expose the metallics.
Also what did you use to cover the car? Ive seen the blue tarps leave a haze over clear coat even years after they where painted. I'm not real sure why the plastic tarps do this, maybe something in the manufacturing or possibly trapped heat and moisture. I don't know.
Try and get me a picture and I will see what I can tell.
06-17-2010, 07:07 PM
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I'll see if I can't get my tenant to snap a photo for me. I didn't think about that when I was there because I was busy packing up my belongings to move a tenant into the house.
The current paint job is probably 12 years old. I've had it for eight years and the previous owner had it for three. He thought the owner before him painted it. The paint is blended in with the factory paint which would be as old as the car (20 years). It's GM Quasar blue which is a blue metallic pearl, and yes, it's base coat clear coat. I'm thinking the paint was just getting old, and perhaps the bubbles I saw are just the clear coat separating from the base.
The cover I used is a breathable fitted "cloth" cover I bought from Performance Corvette's catalog for about $120. In Ohio the cover was perfect. In Florida it was a disaster. It was OK when I used it to cover the car for a week or two, but this time it was on there for eight months. There was a very very fine layer of sand on the entire car. I'm guessing superfine sand soaked through the breathable fabric. It looked like someone had taken 1000 grit sand paper and gently brushed the top half of the car with it. To make it look even worse, mold had started growing on the rear window and deck.
The current paint job is probably 12 years old. I've had it for eight years and the previous owner had it for three. He thought the owner before him painted it. The paint is blended in with the factory paint which would be as old as the car (20 years). It's GM Quasar blue which is a blue metallic pearl, and yes, it's base coat clear coat. I'm thinking the paint was just getting old, and perhaps the bubbles I saw are just the clear coat separating from the base.
The cover I used is a breathable fitted "cloth" cover I bought from Performance Corvette's catalog for about $120. In Ohio the cover was perfect. In Florida it was a disaster. It was OK when I used it to cover the car for a week or two, but this time it was on there for eight months. There was a very very fine layer of sand on the entire car. I'm guessing superfine sand soaked through the breathable fabric. It looked like someone had taken 1000 grit sand paper and gently brushed the top half of the car with it. To make it look even worse, mold had started growing on the rear window and deck.
06-17-2010, 07:59 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
I'll see if I can't get my tenant to snap a photo for me. I didn't think about that when I was there because I was busy packing up my belongings to move a tenant into the house.
The current paint job is probably 12 years old. I've had it for eight years and the previous owner had it for three. He thought the owner before him painted it. The paint is blended in with the factory paint which would be as old as the car (20 years). It's GM Quasar blue which is a blue metallic pearl, and yes, it's base coat clear coat. I'm thinking the paint was just getting old, and perhaps the bubbles I saw are just the clear coat separating from the base.
The cover I used is a breathable fitted "cloth" cover I bought from Performance Corvette's catalog for about $120. In Ohio the cover was perfect. In Florida it was a disaster. It was OK when I used it to cover the car for a week or two, but this time it was on there for eight months. There was a very very fine layer of sand on the entire car. I'm guessing superfine sand soaked through the breathable fabric. It looked like someone had taken 1000 grit sand paper and gently brushed the top half of the car with it. To make it look even worse, mold had started growing on the rear window and deck.
The current paint job is probably 12 years old. I've had it for eight years and the previous owner had it for three. He thought the owner before him painted it. The paint is blended in with the factory paint which would be as old as the car (20 years). It's GM Quasar blue which is a blue metallic pearl, and yes, it's base coat clear coat. I'm thinking the paint was just getting old, and perhaps the bubbles I saw are just the clear coat separating from the base.
The cover I used is a breathable fitted "cloth" cover I bought from Performance Corvette's catalog for about $120. In Ohio the cover was perfect. In Florida it was a disaster. It was OK when I used it to cover the car for a week or two, but this time it was on there for eight months. There was a very very fine layer of sand on the entire car. I'm guessing superfine sand soaked through the breathable fabric. It looked like someone had taken 1000 grit sand paper and gently brushed the top half of the car with it. To make it look even worse, mold had started growing on the rear window and deck.
Your prob right about the bubbles. I have a place on my door where the clear is separating and I bet their is 50 to 100 little tiny bubbles in that one section where the rest of the door is fine.
My car is from Texas, I figure the bubbles are from heat.
Fiberglass cars have a much different effect on paint then metal or urethane. The paint can do some crazy things over time.
