C4 prices
03-12-2013, 07:20 PM
#42
Safety Car
I expect the value of most C4s including mine to continue to depreciate with mileage and time.
The only thing that concerns me is how much I can put down on a new car based on how much I got for my C4. I'm at the point where I can put a few grand into it to restore and add performance - make it the car I want, or ditch it and get that Subaru BR-Z
The only thing that concerns me is how much I can put down on a new car based on how much I got for my C4. I'm at the point where I can put a few grand into it to restore and add performance - make it the car I want, or ditch it and get that Subaru BR-Z
Last edited by Eakster; 03-12-2013 at 07:21 PM. Reason: on topic
03-12-2013, 08:45 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
I expect the value of most C4s including mine to continue to depreciate with mileage and time.
The only thing that concerns me is how much I can put down on a new car based on how much I got for my C4. I'm at the point where I can put a few grand into it to restore and add performance - make it the car I want, or ditch it and get that Subaru BR-Z
The only thing that concerns me is how much I can put down on a new car based on how much I got for my C4. I'm at the point where I can put a few grand into it to restore and add performance - make it the car I want, or ditch it and get that Subaru BR-Z
...with an amendment, I could almost buy a moderaltely used C6 for what what I paid for my LT4 seven years ago.
03-12-2013, 09:10 PM
#44
Instructor
As a Gen X'er, I love my 86. The only reason I am selling it is to buy another 86 that has a 6 speed all ready in it.
I have had no nibbles on my car, and I am asking $ 4,500 OBO for it.
My bank has approved a $ 19,000.00 loan on my car.
If I don't sell it soon, I guess I'll take a loan out and keep my red one as a bone stock cruiser/ sort of daily driver and the blue one I want to get as the Cruise Night/Track Day/Car Show car.
I just prefer a manual transmission.
I have had no nibbles on my car, and I am asking $ 4,500 OBO for it.
My bank has approved a $ 19,000.00 loan on my car.
If I don't sell it soon, I guess I'll take a loan out and keep my red one as a bone stock cruiser/ sort of daily driver and the blue one I want to get as the Cruise Night/Track Day/Car Show car.
I just prefer a manual transmission.
03-12-2013, 10:18 PM
#45
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2011
Location: Holly Springs NC
Posts: 14,371
Received 1,609 Likes
on
1,037 Posts
St. Jude Donor '16-'17,'22,'24
Last summer I decided to return to Corvette ownership. I started looking at lower priced C5s, then quickly decided to look at C4s. I was surprised at the prices of C4s and realized that as far as bang for the buck, the C4 was one of the best buys in the entire muscle car market. Nice LT-1 era cars with less than 80K on the clock were going for $8-10 asking and older C4's somewhat less. I haven't seen much movement from that in either direction since then. IMHO, I don't see C4 prices going any lower. Try going on Autotrader.com and see what you get in the way of a performance car for $6K-$10 K. Not much non-Corvette cars out there that don't need a ton of work.
For personal reasons, I went with a C5 (my wife, who has MS can get into a C5, but not a C4 and I can fit my road bike into the back of a C5 coupe.) I have no illusions about the value of my C5. It's probably going to depreciate, although C5 prices haven't moved much since last summer. But, IMHO, the C5 will bottom out at a higher value than the C4 simply because it has more base performance and performance is what these cars are all about. And the C6 will bottom out higher than the C6 and so on as long as Corvette performance continues to improve.
For personal reasons, I went with a C5 (my wife, who has MS can get into a C5, but not a C4 and I can fit my road bike into the back of a C5 coupe.) I have no illusions about the value of my C5. It's probably going to depreciate, although C5 prices haven't moved much since last summer. But, IMHO, the C5 will bottom out at a higher value than the C4 simply because it has more base performance and performance is what these cars are all about. And the C6 will bottom out higher than the C6 and so on as long as Corvette performance continues to improve.
03-14-2013, 10:14 AM
#46
Le Mans Master
It takes more than rarity to increase value. Ford Pintos are rare. Chevettes are rare. There is no way that the C4 Corvette will ever see the demand that the previous generations saw. Prices will most likely come up from where they are now (let's face it, they can't really go down), but nowhere even remotely close to C1/C2 levels.
This is simple, emotionless math. The argument of value most relevant is cost in relation to the inflated value in today's dollars. For example, the base price in 1985 was $24,878... by inflation alone it would be over $52k today. A '96 is the equivalent of $54k today. Current values of even the BEST examples are nowhere even remotely close to those numbers.
In contrast, a '67 stickered somewhere around $4,500 - $5,000 depending on trim which translates to $30-$40k in today's dollars. Obviously prices are all over the place depending on trim and condition but it is safe to say that the value of a '67 is ABOVE inflation.
Even the ZR1 is not even close. A '90 with a sticker of ~$60k would today need to sell for $103k. A '95 with a sticker of ~$68k would need to sell for $101k.
You can argue about the value of cars and prices going up all day long, but the simple fact is that unless it meets it's inflated cost, it has depreciated over it's life span.
Not even considering future inflation, how long do you think it will take for an '85 Corvette to be worth $52k? How long before ZR-1s are selling for well north of $100k? Until that happens, the C4 is not even in the same discussion as the previous cars in terms of value.
As for comparing to the C5, as has been said a few times in this thread, C5 prices... specifically the Z06 have been trending up for the last few years, not at a large rate, but up nonetheless. It wasn't long ago that a nice C5 Z06 could be had for $17k. Now you are lucky to find a beat up high mileage car for that much. Until the performance of the "normal" Corvette greatly surpasses the C5/C6, they will not take the dive that the C4 took. Someone on a budget can EASILY take a C5 and build it to C6 performance levels with minimal money. Hell, the C5Z will out perform any of the narrow body C6s straight out of the box. Obviously as cars get to be in worse shape with higher mileage, those examples will continue to come down in price.
Like it or not, the same cannot be said for the C4. Even if you do manage to squeeze the power out of it, you are still nowhere near the C5/C6 in terms of suspension, brakes, etc. By the time you actually get it there... you could have bought a newer car to begin with. Yes, there are those on here who love the C4, love the way it feels, love the hood, and a whole bunch of other opinion based features, but unless you fall into the category of wanting it for 1 of those unquantifiable reasons, there is absolutely no reason that anybody would ever buy a C4 over one of the newer cars. Like it or not, it is true. The C4 is not even close to being a "classic" and will NEVER be in the same realm as the older generations due to the technology, elecronics, etc. It is the generation that falls right in the middle of "classic" and "modern". It will never have the appeal of the simple, elegant classic and it will never have the performance of the newer cars.
They are a great bargain. Buy them, use them, enjoy them... but if you are counting on it as an investment, you might as well invest in Enron.
This is simple, emotionless math. The argument of value most relevant is cost in relation to the inflated value in today's dollars. For example, the base price in 1985 was $24,878... by inflation alone it would be over $52k today. A '96 is the equivalent of $54k today. Current values of even the BEST examples are nowhere even remotely close to those numbers.
In contrast, a '67 stickered somewhere around $4,500 - $5,000 depending on trim which translates to $30-$40k in today's dollars. Obviously prices are all over the place depending on trim and condition but it is safe to say that the value of a '67 is ABOVE inflation.
Even the ZR1 is not even close. A '90 with a sticker of ~$60k would today need to sell for $103k. A '95 with a sticker of ~$68k would need to sell for $101k.
You can argue about the value of cars and prices going up all day long, but the simple fact is that unless it meets it's inflated cost, it has depreciated over it's life span.
Not even considering future inflation, how long do you think it will take for an '85 Corvette to be worth $52k? How long before ZR-1s are selling for well north of $100k? Until that happens, the C4 is not even in the same discussion as the previous cars in terms of value.
As for comparing to the C5, as has been said a few times in this thread, C5 prices... specifically the Z06 have been trending up for the last few years, not at a large rate, but up nonetheless. It wasn't long ago that a nice C5 Z06 could be had for $17k. Now you are lucky to find a beat up high mileage car for that much. Until the performance of the "normal" Corvette greatly surpasses the C5/C6, they will not take the dive that the C4 took. Someone on a budget can EASILY take a C5 and build it to C6 performance levels with minimal money. Hell, the C5Z will out perform any of the narrow body C6s straight out of the box. Obviously as cars get to be in worse shape with higher mileage, those examples will continue to come down in price.
Like it or not, the same cannot be said for the C4. Even if you do manage to squeeze the power out of it, you are still nowhere near the C5/C6 in terms of suspension, brakes, etc. By the time you actually get it there... you could have bought a newer car to begin with. Yes, there are those on here who love the C4, love the way it feels, love the hood, and a whole bunch of other opinion based features, but unless you fall into the category of wanting it for 1 of those unquantifiable reasons, there is absolutely no reason that anybody would ever buy a C4 over one of the newer cars. Like it or not, it is true. The C4 is not even close to being a "classic" and will NEVER be in the same realm as the older generations due to the technology, elecronics, etc. It is the generation that falls right in the middle of "classic" and "modern". It will never have the appeal of the simple, elegant classic and it will never have the performance of the newer cars.
They are a great bargain. Buy them, use them, enjoy them... but if you are counting on it as an investment, you might as well invest in Enron.
03-14-2013, 10:44 AM
#47
Racer
Member Since: Oct 2010
Location: Providence RI
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few of you have gotten off point. All I'm saying is I am going by the market where I am and the c5s are at the lowest asking prices I have ever seen including the zo6, and the c4s seen to be on there way up, not that there getting the asking price, I could care less, but just my observation.
what's amazing is..the passion..these damn cars create, regardless of the generation. Love em, hate em, leave em..cry when you don't have one...it's all great! The Corvette Mystique.
Best, Derek
03-14-2013, 04:22 PM
#48
Melting Slicks
The argument that the car is a poor investment as compared to a '67 only holds water if you bought the cars new. I paid $5300 for my '86; if I hold on to it for 20 years, I guarantee you I will outpace inflation.
03-15-2013, 09:08 AM
#50
Le Mans Master
the 1999 and 2000 FRC (fixed roof coupe) will always draw top dollar and will raise in price after prices get stable...all Z06 vettes are FRCs but not all FRC are Z06s. 1999 and 2000 ,one could buy a FRC base coupe,,keep your eyes on those..not many other than C-5 folks know that.
03-15-2013, 10:09 AM
#51
Le Mans Master
ZR-1 (especially Anniversary Edition and 95 with Dunn heads), Callaway, Grand Sport (especially convertible), any LT4, Pace Cars, 84 with Z51, Challenge Series, 88 Anniversary Edition, and any Z07 if kept nice and original and low miles are all destined to appreciate. Granted, cars generally perform poorly as investments but any appreciation sure beats losing a ton of money when the time to sell comes. Practically everyone (buyers and sellers) is concerned about where prices are headed.
The older pricier Corvettes are stylish and certainly appealing until you try to drive one in today's environment. C1 and C2 prices are high because of high antique collector car value now. Though it once did, I don't know if the musclecar aspect is what still makes them desireable because even the highest HP options are now modest by today's standards and some are being topped by imports. Combine that with the way they drove having ladder frames, passenger car suspension, stiff springs, little shocks, skinny tires, drum brakes before 65 and gigantic steering wheels before 1969 I don't think it would make a good daily driver. A ZR-1 or a 96 with an LT4 would drive and handle a whole lot better and it will be far more civilized. A C2 absolutely will look nice in your garage though.
The older pricier Corvettes are stylish and certainly appealing until you try to drive one in today's environment. C1 and C2 prices are high because of high antique collector car value now. Though it once did, I don't know if the musclecar aspect is what still makes them desireable because even the highest HP options are now modest by today's standards and some are being topped by imports. Combine that with the way they drove having ladder frames, passenger car suspension, stiff springs, little shocks, skinny tires, drum brakes before 65 and gigantic steering wheels before 1969 I don't think it would make a good daily driver. A ZR-1 or a 96 with an LT4 would drive and handle a whole lot better and it will be far more civilized. A C2 absolutely will look nice in your garage though.
Last edited by Greg Gore; 03-15-2013 at 01:30 PM.
03-15-2013, 09:13 PM
#54
Racer
Member Since: Oct 2010
Location: Providence RI
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03-17-2013, 02:04 PM
#55
Race Director
A low mileage (around 10,000 miles) late model C4 convertible in like new condition, history shows selling prices remain between $15,000 - $20,000. If you think that price is high, try to restore a 1994 - 1996 convertible to like new condition and remain below that amount.
03-17-2013, 04:28 PM
#56
Safety Car
From my observations over a 3 year time span, I'd say that cleaner 6 speed c4's are being advertised with a little higher asking price- like about $2000 higher from say 2010-2011 pricing.
It is just getting harder to find a lower mileage one as time passes. ZR-1's are showing some sign of slightly higher asking prices, but maybe it would be more accurate to say that there is slightly higher buyer interest and maybe it is taking less time to unload a ZR at a fair price than it did a year ago.
It is just getting harder to find a lower mileage one as time passes. ZR-1's are showing some sign of slightly higher asking prices, but maybe it would be more accurate to say that there is slightly higher buyer interest and maybe it is taking less time to unload a ZR at a fair price than it did a year ago.
03-17-2013, 08:13 PM
#57
Team Owner
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in Mo
Posts: 73,434
Likes: 0
Received 31 Likes
on
27 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09-'10, '14
A few of you have gotten off point. All I'm saying is I am going by the market where I am and the c5s are at the lowest asking prices I have ever seen including the zo6, and the c4s seen to be on there way up, not that there getting the asking price, I could care less, but just my observation.
Like Red said, the C5/LS1 can be increased to 405 easily. Headers, intake, and exhaust and your over 405 on an LS1. And that makes them desirable to people.
It's like having 450 HP and never using it but you know it's there. Well with the LS1 it's like having 450 to 500 HP and never using it as well, but it's doable easily. That's what's making the C5 desirable.
Folks I had a C4 you know that and I will always have a soft spot for them. I like them a lot and know what they brought to the table.
And I never thought I would admit it, but the C5 is a better car in every way. They have their BS issues like everything, but you can't deny the potential of an LS.
All cars will go up in value as red/Brian stated and I have said the same thing in the past using the C3 as an example. Actually a C3 at 12 to 15K is still a loser in actual economics, and the C4 has a long ways to go as they were the most expensive vette in history, IIRC.
Last edited by RetiredSFC 97; 03-17-2013 at 08:16 PM.
03-17-2013, 11:57 PM
#58
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I love the FRC & Zo6 body styles, best c5's built imo and I think you got a hell of a deal on yours.
Last edited by kimmer; 03-18-2013 at 12:09 AM.
03-18-2013, 08:10 PM
#59
Pro
c4s are kinda right in the middle of the restoring vs performance Corvettes. It's a sweet spot because you can pick up a decent c4 for low money yet you have a car that's a lot of fun without breaking the bank. For the most part, you can enjoy the car without fear that soccer mommy will make you trade it in for a new Tahoe or Suburban. The c5 is a better car but is going nowhere because it's not as good looking as the c4 (it has been referred to as the fat *** Corvette)(and the c5 is just a car on the way to a c6 or 7) and now you are entering the performance arena which is the c6. I believe most c5 owners would rather have the c6. The c5 is like Corvette purgatory. I would say that a C6 will be my next big thing, hopefully the 2008 or newer, with the 435 hp engine, but I don't see selling my gorgeous torch red 94 coupe.