"Dissing" the LSx/C4 swap misguided?
10-27-2013, 09:00 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
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"Dissing" the LSx/C4 swap misguided?
Those that remember the "Get Smart" TV spoof spy series will recall agent smart often saying, "I came THIS CLOSE...." (to doing that same LSx swap myself).
It seems so often when someone decides to drop an LSx into a C4, suddenly the "practical birds" start chirping loudly - going on and on about how somehow the C4 value is paramount to the decision and dismissed by them as not being "worth it"; "...get a C5 (or C6) instead" seems to be a prevailing theme (by some). Yet, at the same time an LSx transfusion into some hotrod is hailed with all kinds of
and 
talk.
I don't get it. Since when does modifying a Corvette (and a C4 in particular!) fall into the same practical criteria for decision making that might be applied to the the "Family Truckster???" The Corvette is about having fun; practicality be damned!
Adding to the grin factor is the feeling one gets from tackling and completing an engine swap, NOT to mention the seat of the pants reward. And, there is the unique aspect such a project gives the car; no longer a "cookie cutter" Vette. More, (my personal favorite) is the "sleeper" aspect.
Coming to the line with a sneering C5 or C6 driver, or some ricer...and blowing his doors off
is its own reward, I assure you! (I felt the same way about my Vega after dropping a 327 V8 w/ a Powerglide tranny in it I had a heck of a lot of fun in that car - at the expense of many would be antagonists!)
Doing the LSx swap has its share of issues, as does any major variation modification. But, that is part of the fun. It is the fun of figuring it out and DIY that those that simply plunk down $$$ for their thrill rides will never know. Its hard to put a $$ value on personal satisfaction of achievement - something many nay-sayers haven't a clue about.
I came very close to the LSx swap - chose to mod a ZR-1 instead (having my cake and eating it too). But, regardless of whether one goes with a 383 L98, LTx, FI, or LSx, modding a C4 has ample rewards in its own right: "practical birds"... take a load off!
P.
It seems so often when someone decides to drop an LSx into a C4, suddenly the "practical birds" start chirping loudly - going on and on about how somehow the C4 value is paramount to the decision and dismissed by them as not being "worth it"; "...get a C5 (or C6) instead" seems to be a prevailing theme (by some). Yet, at the same time an LSx transfusion into some hotrod is hailed with all kinds of
and talk. I don't get it. Since when does modifying a Corvette (and a C4 in particular!) fall into the same practical criteria for decision making that might be applied to the the "Family Truckster???" The Corvette is about having fun; practicality be damned!
Adding to the grin factor is the feeling one gets from tackling and completing an engine swap, NOT to mention the seat of the pants reward. And, there is the unique aspect such a project gives the car; no longer a "cookie cutter" Vette. More, (my personal favorite) is the "sleeper" aspect.
Coming to the line with a sneering C5 or C6 driver, or some ricer...and blowing his doors off is its own reward, I assure you! (I felt the same way about my Vega after dropping a 327 V8 w/ a Powerglide tranny in it I had a heck of a lot of fun in that car - at the expense of many would be antagonists!)Doing the LSx swap has its share of issues, as does any major variation modification. But, that is part of the fun. It is the fun of figuring it out and DIY that those that simply plunk down $$$ for their thrill rides will never know. Its hard to put a $$ value on personal satisfaction of achievement - something many nay-sayers haven't a clue about.
I came very close to the LSx swap - chose to mod a ZR-1 instead (having my cake and eating it too). But, regardless of whether one goes with a 383 L98, LTx, FI, or LSx, modding a C4 has ample rewards in its own right: "practical birds"... take a load off!
P.
10-27-2013, 09:18 AM
#2
This all goes back to the Hod Rod movement of the 50's. If it's done right, the results can be worth it. So if someone has the ingenuity, money, and talent to tackle a project like this, I say go for it. Someone had to figure out how to get a OHV V8 in a '32 Ford once upon a time and the car is a artistic pallet for some.
I was looking at the LS conversion for my Miata and some vendors out there offer this as a turnkey solution with a factory style build. I couldn't have handled this on my own and the $30k price tag was over my head. Someone has to develop this solution for that platform.
The only downside I can see is that the SBC has lots of potential and the "business case" isn't as good as the guy with a '32 Ford in the 1950's due to the electronic complexity.
I was looking at the LS conversion for my Miata and some vendors out there offer this as a turnkey solution with a factory style build. I couldn't have handled this on my own and the $30k price tag was over my head. Someone has to develop this solution for that platform.
The only downside I can see is that the SBC has lots of potential and the "business case" isn't as good as the guy with a '32 Ford in the 1950's due to the electronic complexity.
10-27-2013, 09:25 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
I've often wondered how my 89 would look with a blower sticking through the hood... Practical, No, but man would it look cool , and Im sure I would have a ball with it..Swimsuit Model optional.....
...WW
"I came THIS CLOSE"
...WW"I came THIS CLOSE"
Last edited by WW7; 10-28-2013 at 07:34 AM.
10-27-2013, 09:44 AM
#4
Instructor
I very much agree. My '84 is a classic in that it has a Crossfire engine only produced in one year of the C3 and one year of the C4. But GM saw wisely that there were too many problems reported and moved on. It may be unique, but I've spent months and $$$ trying to get it to run smoothly and reliably. The only solution for me, a cruiser, is the new engine and a modern transmission to go along with it.
It's been pointed out to me many times over the last six months that my car's value won't increase significantly if I decided to sell it, but I figure I'll drive it for as long as I am able (in my 70's now) and then it's my son's decision what to do with it long after I am able to care.
Frankly, if there was a kit available to put a nice V6 from the Camero line in, I'd consider it, as all I really want to do is drive reliably, but heck, a brute of an LS1 all chromed up excites me more than the girl (above.)
Posted in another thread, this is what I plan to install next month:
It's been pointed out to me many times over the last six months that my car's value won't increase significantly if I decided to sell it, but I figure I'll drive it for as long as I am able (in my 70's now) and then it's my son's decision what to do with it long after I am able to care.
Frankly, if there was a kit available to put a nice V6 from the Camero line in, I'd consider it, as all I really want to do is drive reliably, but heck, a brute of an LS1 all chromed up excites me more than the girl (above.)
Posted in another thread, this is what I plan to install next month:
10-27-2013, 10:02 AM
#5
Banned Loser
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17
I would never "diss" anyones project, but I'm just not overly impressed with an LS swap. You can achieve the same performance from the original powerplant of the C4 with much less time and money involved while keeping all of the functions of the car intact. If I were going to undertake an LS swap, the LS7 would be the only one I would consider, then you would have something. 
JMHO
JMHO
10-27-2013, 01:23 PM
#7
Safety Car
My sentiments exactly Paul. Iy isnt about practicality or cost effective, its about enjoying your car and being proud of what you accomplish. Its the built not bought mentality. If I had a spare $15-20K tho I might think a lot about the LS7.
10-27-2013, 02:28 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Thanks Paul,
If I could only describe the feeling of accomplishment and top it off with the fun factor it would be illegal.
Friday night I followed a group of Mustangs and a Gen5 cammed Camaro to a meet. I was behind the leader a SC 5.0. I was able to keep up when he played hard. If I had my old L98 It would have been a sad and embarrassing night.
BTW the owner of that Mustang is on this forum. He is building a true LSX 446 C4.
If I could only describe the feeling of accomplishment and top it off with the fun factor it would be illegal.
Friday night I followed a group of Mustangs and a Gen5 cammed Camaro to a meet. I was behind the leader a SC 5.0. I was able to keep up when he played hard. If I had my old L98 It would have been a sad and embarrassing night.
BTW the owner of that Mustang is on this forum. He is building a true LSX 446 C4.
10-28-2013, 02:06 AM
#10
Instructor
Thanks Paul,
If I could only describe the feeling of accomplishment and top it off with the fun factor it would be illegal.
Friday night I followed a group of Mustangs and a Gen5 cammed Camaro to a meet. I was behind the leader a SC 5.0. I was able to keep up when he played hard. If I had my old L98 It would have been a sad and embarrassing night.
BTW the owner of that Mustang is on this forum. He is building a true LSX 446 C4.
If I could only describe the feeling of accomplishment and top it off with the fun factor it would be illegal.
Friday night I followed a group of Mustangs and a Gen5 cammed Camaro to a meet. I was behind the leader a SC 5.0. I was able to keep up when he played hard. If I had my old L98 It would have been a sad and embarrassing night.
BTW the owner of that Mustang is on this forum. He is building a true LSX 446 C4.
10-28-2013, 01:12 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
One thing most people seem to forget is that this is a hobby for some of us. I am not and never will be a purist and enjoy modifying my cars.
Imagine telling someone that playing golf or watching your team at the stadium is not cost effective and you will never get your money back. Ridiculous? yes it is and that is how I feel when someone tell me I will never get my money out of my hobby as well.
Another factor is LS engines come in pretty much any V8 car since 1998 now and are a dime a dozen. With all the information and online help that is available now a C4 swap should be cheaper that it ever was. Some of you have spent what I spent on my swap on a set of wheels and tires.
So.. for all you reading this don't be afraid to do it if its what you want to do, after all it's your car and what makes you happy.
10-28-2013, 01:24 PM
#12
Instructor
10-28-2013, 02:29 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
I agree with the posts so far. I think it would be a great swap.
I have never been afraid of mixing and matching drive trains from different cars. I have done about 20 motor swaps including some oddball stuff like a 400 Pontiac from my Firebird into a Buick, a SD 421 Pontiac into my Olds 442, a modified 350 gas motor into my diesel Olds, and a lot of other more "normal" swaps.
The one thing I have never seen is a good accounting for how much it would cost and where to get all the parts. It may be in some of the swap threads, but I didn't notice it or put it together. Usually when I make a swap, I try to figure it out before I do it so that I have the budget for it, or can decide if that is they way I want to go.
I think the end result could be something a little different that really performs great. Those that have done it should take pride in what they built.
I have never been afraid of mixing and matching drive trains from different cars. I have done about 20 motor swaps including some oddball stuff like a 400 Pontiac from my Firebird into a Buick, a SD 421 Pontiac into my Olds 442, a modified 350 gas motor into my diesel Olds, and a lot of other more "normal" swaps.
The one thing I have never seen is a good accounting for how much it would cost and where to get all the parts. It may be in some of the swap threads, but I didn't notice it or put it together. Usually when I make a swap, I try to figure it out before I do it so that I have the budget for it, or can decide if that is they way I want to go.
I think the end result could be something a little different that really performs great. Those that have done it should take pride in what they built.
10-28-2013, 02:42 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
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One thing most people seem to forget is that this is a hobby for some of us. I am not and never will be a purist and enjoy modifying my cars.
Imagine telling someone that playing golf or watching your team at the stadium is not cost effective and you will never get your money back. Ridiculous? yes it is and that is how I feel when someone tell me I will never get my money out of my hobby as well.
Another factor is LS engines come in pretty much any V8 car since 1998 now and are a dime a dozen. With all the information and online help that is available now a C4 swap should be cheaper that it ever was. Some of you have spent what I spent on my swap on a set of wheels and tires.
So.. for all you reading this don't be afraid to do it if its what you want to do, after all it's your car and what makes you happy.
You hit the nail of the head perfectly!!
Now and then I see one of those hot rod programs where a team does a frame-off resto for some Hollywood celeb who has commissioned them to build their ride. They produce a marvelous car and always have the celeb there for the un-veiling.
On QUEUE, the celeb proceeds to gush all over the place, like he/she has a friggin clue what they're looking at!!
In spite of how nice a job the shop does, I sorta feel sorry for the celeb that shows up and simply takes delivery of the car. You can tell by their phony acting most have NO real appreciation for what it took to produce it or the individual effort contributed.
AND TOO, so it is with those that plunk down cash to buy the latest and greatest Corvette - and then sneer at former generations as being somehow less. They may have bought it, but they'll never truly OWN it, and never love it for what they produced.
Last edited by Paul Workman; 10-28-2013 at 02:49 PM.
10-28-2013, 03:29 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
I agree with the posts so far. I think it would be a great swap.
The one thing I have never seen is a good accounting for how much it would cost and where to get all the parts. It may be in some of the swap threads, but I didn't notice it or put it together. Usually when I make a swap, I try to figure it out before I do it so that I have the budget for it, or can decide if that is they way I want to go.
The one thing I have never seen is a good accounting for how much it would cost and where to get all the parts. It may be in some of the swap threads, but I didn't notice it or put it together. Usually when I make a swap, I try to figure it out before I do it so that I have the budget for it, or can decide if that is they way I want to go.
10-28-2013, 04:59 PM
#16
Instructor
One thing most people seem to forget is that this is a hobby for some of us. I am not and never will be a purist and enjoy modifying my cars.
Imagine telling someone that playing golf or watching your team at the stadium is not cost effective and you will never get your money back. Ridiculous? yes it is and that is how I feel when someone tell me I will never get my money out of my hobby as well.
Another factor is LS engines come in pretty much any V8 car since 1998 now and are a dime a dozen. With all the information and online help that is available now a C4 swap should be cheaper that it ever was. Some of you have spent what I spent on my swap on a set of wheels and tires.
So.. for all you reading this don't be afraid to do it if its what you want to do, after all it's your car and what makes you happy.
10-28-2013, 11:38 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
I read all 26 pages of your thread.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...x-my-swap.html
Really nice job of documenting what you did. It looks like a pretty big project. To me it seems like the mechanicals of the swap are pretty straight forward, but the wiring harness seems like it caused quite a bit of time/trouble to figure it out and extend the wires.
I like the swap and the LS should be great in the C4.
How do you like it now? Opinions/Impressions compared to original L98 and modified L98?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...x-my-swap.html
Really nice job of documenting what you did. It looks like a pretty big project. To me it seems like the mechanicals of the swap are pretty straight forward, but the wiring harness seems like it caused quite a bit of time/trouble to figure it out and extend the wires.
I like the swap and the LS should be great in the C4.
How do you like it now? Opinions/Impressions compared to original L98 and modified L98?
10-28-2013, 11:56 PM
#19
Drifting
10-29-2013, 12:09 AM
#20
Racer
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Well I'm afraid I have to disagree with some of the above. I'm not talented enough to tackle a swap on my own. Apparently most of you feel that only DIY guys truly enjoy or appreciate the mods. Speaking only for myself, I enjoy the hell out of my '92 with its LS3 "Hot Cam" crate engine. While I did not do the work, paying through the nose for it certainly was not painless and I'm constantly going to shows and proudly showing off the finished product. I wanted a unique C4 and that's what I planned for, paid for, and got. So please, don't think that all of us who paid for the swaps as opposed to doing it ourselves, do not appreciate what we have. Just my 2cents!