My 96 Corvette won't crank or turn over
12-08-2014, 04:58 PM
#21
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wires goinf into light
ist code
2nd code
3rd
4th
5th
6th
light in placement to OBDII port
12-08-2014, 05:05 PM
#22
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12-08-2014, 10:35 PM
#23
Race Director
That connector (circled in Yellow) and all of the wires going to it are "Aftermarket" and nothing that came from the factory.
12-09-2014, 01:13 AM
#24
Melting Slicks
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1st question is are you using a factory key fob or is the key fob after market which would indicate
there is an after market alarm which is what the Led is for?
You're not getting a Pass key error code which is good.
CCM C25 = Current code
CCM H25 = History code
CCM DTC 25 indicates something is wrong with the courtesy lamp relay or wiring that turns on the interior lamps.
The CCM monitors the primary circuit of the relay coil. Code 25 indicates the relay primary coil is grounded or open when the circuit should show 12 volts . (Primary Coil is not being activated by the CCM).
To clear code 25 short pin 4 to pin 12 as you did to pull the codes.
After the numbers cycle you should see 1.0
Press Trip/ODO button on the driver information center until you see 1.7
Press the Eng/Met and hold it until ----- is displayed.
Turn the ignition off for a second and then turn the ignition back On.
Verify the C25 and H25 have been erased.
Some after market alarms can control the interior lights which could be what the CCM is detecting.
Below is a picture of the location of the starter enable relay. The CCM grounds the primary relay coil if the key pellet is read properly and the ignition is turned On. Even if the starter doesn't engage you should hear a faint click from the relay when you turn the key to Start.
The relay is located under the driver side of the dash cluster.
All the relays in that area are the same and can be swapped.
If it is an after market alarm the Yellow wire or Purple wire shown in the schematic is probably being interrupted by the alarm system causing the no crank problem.
Follow the wire harness with the Led on it and it should lead you to the mystery black box.
there is an after market alarm which is what the Led is for?
You're not getting a Pass key error code which is good.
CCM C25 = Current code
CCM H25 = History code
CCM DTC 25 indicates something is wrong with the courtesy lamp relay or wiring that turns on the interior lamps.
The CCM monitors the primary circuit of the relay coil. Code 25 indicates the relay primary coil is grounded or open when the circuit should show 12 volts . (Primary Coil is not being activated by the CCM).
To clear code 25 short pin 4 to pin 12 as you did to pull the codes.
After the numbers cycle you should see 1.0
Press Trip/ODO button on the driver information center until you see 1.7
Press the Eng/Met and hold it until ----- is displayed.
Turn the ignition off for a second and then turn the ignition back On.
Verify the C25 and H25 have been erased.
Some after market alarms can control the interior lights which could be what the CCM is detecting.
Below is a picture of the location of the starter enable relay. The CCM grounds the primary relay coil if the key pellet is read properly and the ignition is turned On. Even if the starter doesn't engage you should hear a faint click from the relay when you turn the key to Start.
The relay is located under the driver side of the dash cluster.
All the relays in that area are the same and can be swapped.
If it is an after market alarm the Yellow wire or Purple wire shown in the schematic is probably being interrupted by the alarm system causing the no crank problem.
Follow the wire harness with the Led on it and it should lead you to the mystery black box.
Last edited by Hooked on Vettes; 12-09-2014 at 02:10 AM.
12-09-2014, 12:48 PM
#25
Le Mans Master
I wonder if this is a connection for some type of ignition interlock device or something of this nature. Perhaps a PO had a dui or something? Just a WAG
12-09-2014, 02:05 PM
#26
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Drop the trim panel from under the steering wheel to find the aftermarket alarm module and the slice into the starter interrupt relay. Suggest removing the aftermarket alarm and reconnecting the factory system which is still there...just unplugged. Then if you want to use the auto lock/unlock factory system, will need to obtain the factory remote...which are about $125 each.
12-10-2014, 02:10 PM
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1st question is are you using a factory key fob or is the key fob after market which would indicate
there is an after market alarm which is what the Led is for?
You're not getting a Pass key error code which is good.
CCM C25 = Current code
CCM H25 = History code
CCM DTC 25 indicates something is wrong with the courtesy lamp relay or wiring that turns on the interior lamps.
The CCM monitors the primary circuit of the relay coil. Code 25 indicates the relay primary coil is grounded or open when the circuit should show 12 volts . (Primary Coil is not being activated by the CCM).
To clear code 25 short pin 4 to pin 12 as you did to pull the codes.
After the numbers cycle you should see 1.0
Press Trip/ODO button on the driver information center until you see 1.7
Press the Eng/Met and hold it until ----- is displayed.
Turn the ignition off for a second and then turn the ignition back On.
Verify the C25 and H25 have been erased.
Some after market alarms can control the interior lights which could be what the CCM is detecting.
Below is a picture of the location of the starter enable relay. The CCM grounds the primary relay coil if the key pellet is read properly and the ignition is turned On. Even if the starter doesn't engage you should hear a faint click from the relay when you turn the key to Start.
The relay is located under the driver side of the dash cluster.
All the relays in that area are the same and can be swapped.
If it is an after market alarm the Yellow wire or Purple wire shown in the schematic is probably being interrupted by the alarm system causing the no crank problem.
Follow the wire harness with the Led on it and it should lead you to the mystery black box.
there is an after market alarm which is what the Led is for?
You're not getting a Pass key error code which is good.
CCM C25 = Current code
CCM H25 = History code
CCM DTC 25 indicates something is wrong with the courtesy lamp relay or wiring that turns on the interior lamps.
The CCM monitors the primary circuit of the relay coil. Code 25 indicates the relay primary coil is grounded or open when the circuit should show 12 volts . (Primary Coil is not being activated by the CCM).
To clear code 25 short pin 4 to pin 12 as you did to pull the codes.
After the numbers cycle you should see 1.0
Press Trip/ODO button on the driver information center until you see 1.7
Press the Eng/Met and hold it until ----- is displayed.
Turn the ignition off for a second and then turn the ignition back On.
Verify the C25 and H25 have been erased.
Some after market alarms can control the interior lights which could be what the CCM is detecting.
Below is a picture of the location of the starter enable relay. The CCM grounds the primary relay coil if the key pellet is read properly and the ignition is turned On. Even if the starter doesn't engage you should hear a faint click from the relay when you turn the key to Start.
The relay is located under the driver side of the dash cluster.
All the relays in that area are the same and can be swapped.
If it is an after market alarm the Yellow wire or Purple wire shown in the schematic is probably being interrupted by the alarm system causing the no crank problem.
Follow the wire harness with the Led on it and it should lead you to the mystery black box.
12-10-2014, 02:12 PM
#28
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1st question is are you using a factory key fob or is the key fob after market which would indicate
there is an after market alarm which is what the Led is for?
You're not getting a Pass key error code which is good.
CCM C25 = Current code
CCM H25 = History code
CCM DTC 25 indicates something is wrong with the courtesy lamp relay or wiring that turns on the interior lamps.
The CCM monitors the primary circuit of the relay coil. Code 25 indicates the relay primary coil is grounded or open when the circuit should show 12 volts . (Primary Coil is not being activated by the CCM).
To clear code 25 short pin 4 to pin 12 as you did to pull the codes.
After the numbers cycle you should see 1.0
Press Trip/ODO button on the driver information center until you see 1.7
Press the Eng/Met and hold it until ----- is displayed.
Turn the ignition off for a second and then turn the ignition back On.
Verify the C25 and H25 have been erased.
Some after market alarms can control the interior lights which could be what the CCM is detecting.
Below is a picture of the location of the starter enable relay. The CCM grounds the primary relay coil if the key pellet is read properly and the ignition is turned On. Even if the starter doesn't engage you should hear a faint click from the relay when you turn the key to Start.
The relay is located under the driver side of the dash cluster.
All the relays in that area are the same and can be swapped.
If it is an after market alarm the Yellow wire or Purple wire shown in the schematic is probably being interrupted by the alarm system causing the no crank problem.
Follow the wire harness with the Led on it and it should lead you to the mystery black box.
there is an after market alarm which is what the Led is for?
You're not getting a Pass key error code which is good.
CCM C25 = Current code
CCM H25 = History code
CCM DTC 25 indicates something is wrong with the courtesy lamp relay or wiring that turns on the interior lamps.
The CCM monitors the primary circuit of the relay coil. Code 25 indicates the relay primary coil is grounded or open when the circuit should show 12 volts . (Primary Coil is not being activated by the CCM).
To clear code 25 short pin 4 to pin 12 as you did to pull the codes.
After the numbers cycle you should see 1.0
Press Trip/ODO button on the driver information center until you see 1.7
Press the Eng/Met and hold it until ----- is displayed.
Turn the ignition off for a second and then turn the ignition back On.
Verify the C25 and H25 have been erased.
Some after market alarms can control the interior lights which could be what the CCM is detecting.
Below is a picture of the location of the starter enable relay. The CCM grounds the primary relay coil if the key pellet is read properly and the ignition is turned On. Even if the starter doesn't engage you should hear a faint click from the relay when you turn the key to Start.
The relay is located under the driver side of the dash cluster.
All the relays in that area are the same and can be swapped.
If it is an after market alarm the Yellow wire or Purple wire shown in the schematic is probably being interrupted by the alarm system causing the no crank problem.
Follow the wire harness with the Led on it and it should lead you to the mystery black box.
12-10-2014, 04:42 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
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I do know that the interior lights don't come on when I open the door but they will work if I use the dimmer part of light switch and turn it all the way up to interior light position... the factory security light comes on when I open door and it goes off after a few seconds when I turn the key on? so does that mean it is still hooked up?
Either door open the Security light blinks.
Close both doors Security light goes out.
Insert ignition key turn ignition to On Security light should be out.
CCM grounds primary coil of the Starter Enable relay.
When you turn the key to Start, the relay closes and the output relay contacts provides 12 volts to the Purple wire going to the Starter solenoid.
Even if the starter doesn't engage you should hear a faint click every time you turn the ignition key to Start which is the Starter Enable relay engaging.
If you have a manual transmission a common problem on the early model cars (not the 96) was the clutch safety switch contacts pitting.
You should be able to push start the car.
If you have a auto trans. could be the Neutral Park safety switch is bad. (Try starting in Neutral).
You do need to trace that connector with the LED on it and see where it goes. Someone mentioned it could be the remnants of a DUI ignition interlock device. They do splice into the starter circuit.
The interior courtesy lights won't come on in day light conditions.
There is a ambient light sensor on the Driver Information Center the CCM monitors. If you were to place your finger over the sensor the interior lights should come on when you open either door.
You can run a diagnostic to verify the CCM can control the courtesy lamp relay by doing the following.
Run the diagnostics as you previously did.
At 1.0
Press Trip/ODO until you see 1.4
Press Eng/Met until you see 10
The Courtesy lights should cycle on and off.
The relay will make a clicking sound. (Relay located under the passenger side of dash).
At the bottom of the LCD you should see a 1 when the lights are on and a 0 when the lights are off.
If that works properly delete the CCM codes and verify 25 is gone.
12-12-2014, 06:08 PM
#30
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Normal operation for the Security light is
Either door open the Security light blinks.
Close both doors Security light goes out.
Insert ignition key turn ignition to On Security light should be out.
CCM grounds primary coil of the Starter Enable relay.
When you turn the key to Start, the relay closes and the output relay contacts provides 12 volts to the Purple wire going to the Starter solenoid.
Even if the starter doesn't engage you should hear a faint click every time you turn the ignition key to Start which is the Starter Enable relay engaging.
If you have a manual transmission a common problem on the early model cars (not the 96) was the clutch safety switch contacts pitting.
You should be able to push start the car.
If you have a auto trans. could be the Neutral Park safety switch is bad. (Try starting in Neutral).
You do need to trace that connector with the LED on it and see where it goes. Someone mentioned it could be the remnants of a DUI ignition interlock device. They do splice into the starter circuit.
The interior courtesy lights won't come on in day light conditions.
There is a ambient light sensor on the Driver Information Center the CCM monitors. If you were to place your finger over the sensor the interior lights should come on when you open either door.
You can run a diagnostic to verify the CCM can control the courtesy lamp relay by doing the following.
Run the diagnostics as you previously did.
At 1.0
Press Trip/ODO until you see 1.4
Press Eng/Met until you see 10
The Courtesy lights should cycle on and off.
The relay will make a clicking sound. (Relay located under the passenger side of dash).
At the bottom of the LCD you should see a 1 when the lights are on and a 0 when the lights are off.
If that works properly delete the CCM codes and verify 25 is gone.
Either door open the Security light blinks.
Close both doors Security light goes out.
Insert ignition key turn ignition to On Security light should be out.
CCM grounds primary coil of the Starter Enable relay.
When you turn the key to Start, the relay closes and the output relay contacts provides 12 volts to the Purple wire going to the Starter solenoid.
Even if the starter doesn't engage you should hear a faint click every time you turn the ignition key to Start which is the Starter Enable relay engaging.
If you have a manual transmission a common problem on the early model cars (not the 96) was the clutch safety switch contacts pitting.
You should be able to push start the car.
If you have a auto trans. could be the Neutral Park safety switch is bad. (Try starting in Neutral).
You do need to trace that connector with the LED on it and see where it goes. Someone mentioned it could be the remnants of a DUI ignition interlock device. They do splice into the starter circuit.
The interior courtesy lights won't come on in day light conditions.
There is a ambient light sensor on the Driver Information Center the CCM monitors. If you were to place your finger over the sensor the interior lights should come on when you open either door.
You can run a diagnostic to verify the CCM can control the courtesy lamp relay by doing the following.
Run the diagnostics as you previously did.
At 1.0
Press Trip/ODO until you see 1.4
Press Eng/Met until you see 10
The Courtesy lights should cycle on and off.
The relay will make a clicking sound. (Relay located under the passenger side of dash).
At the bottom of the LCD you should see a 1 when the lights are on and a 0 when the lights are off.
If that works properly delete the CCM codes and verify 25 is gone.
12-12-2014, 08:19 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
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I ran the diagnostics again, and followed you steps, and they were very precise thank you... When I got to 1.4 I pressed Eng/Met button till it got to 10 then on the right side of the 10 a 1 and a 0 were switching from 1 to 0 but no courtesy lights came on, and I did not hear the relay click... I did notice that the high beam indicator came on at 5 or 6 when I was going to 10... So I'm thinking by what you said the relay is bad right? Also tried to erase ccm25 code but it would reset..
01 Change oil indicator should light
02 Check gauges indicator should light
03 Fasten seat belt should light
04 Security Light should light
05 High beam indicator should light
06 Chime 1 should ding
07 Chime 2 should ding
08 LCD should blank out
09 Rear defogger relay should energize
10 Courtesy lamp relay should energize
11 Low Oil indicator should light
12 Theft Deterrent relay should energize
13 Delayed accessory bus relay should energize
14 Door ajar indicator should light
15 Horn relay energized
Most likely either the relay needs re-seating or the primary coil of the relay is bad. Should measure 50-80 ohms.
The relay is in the relay retainer which is under the passenger side dash front edge. There might be a plastic covering over them. I posted a picture of a 95 so I'm not positive a 96 is the same. You will notice there are 2 fuel pump relays. The second one was used on the ZR1 which had two fuel pumps. The relays are all the same so you can swap them around. If you look at the color of wires going to the courtesy lamp relay socket you can identify the correct relay. There should be a White wire which goes to the courtesy lamp bulbs, Black wire which is ground a Gray/Black wire which the CCM grounds to energize the relay and an Orange wire which is 12 volts for the primary of the relay coil.
Last edited by Hooked on Vettes; 12-12-2014 at 08:23 PM.
12-12-2014, 09:12 PM
#32
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Yes as you press the Eng/Met button
01 Change oil indicator should light
02 Check gauges indicator should light
03 Fasten seat belt should light
04 Security Light should light
05 High beam indicator should light
06 Chime 1 should ding
07 Chime 2 should ding
08 LCD should blank out
09 Rear defogger relay should energize
10 Courtesy lamp relay should energize
11 Low Oil indicator should light
12 Theft Deterrent relay should energize
13 Delayed accessory bus relay should energize
14 Door ajar indicator should light
15 Horn relay energized
Most likely either the relay needs re-seating or the primary coil of the relay is bad. Should measure 50-80 ohms.
The relay is in the relay retainer which is under the passenger side dash front edge. There might be a plastic covering over them. I posted a picture of a 95 so I'm not positive a 96 is the same. You will notice there are 2 fuel pump relays. The second one was used on the ZR1 which had two fuel pumps. The relays are all the same so you can swap them around. If you look at the color of wires going to the courtesy lamp relay socket you can identify the correct relay. There should be a White wire which goes to the courtesy lamp bulbs, Black wire which is ground a Gray/Black wire which the CCM grounds to energize the relay and an Orange wire which is 12 volts for the primary of the relay coil.
01 Change oil indicator should light
02 Check gauges indicator should light
03 Fasten seat belt should light
04 Security Light should light
05 High beam indicator should light
06 Chime 1 should ding
07 Chime 2 should ding
08 LCD should blank out
09 Rear defogger relay should energize
10 Courtesy lamp relay should energize
11 Low Oil indicator should light
12 Theft Deterrent relay should energize
13 Delayed accessory bus relay should energize
14 Door ajar indicator should light
15 Horn relay energized
Most likely either the relay needs re-seating or the primary coil of the relay is bad. Should measure 50-80 ohms.
The relay is in the relay retainer which is under the passenger side dash front edge. There might be a plastic covering over them. I posted a picture of a 95 so I'm not positive a 96 is the same. You will notice there are 2 fuel pump relays. The second one was used on the ZR1 which had two fuel pumps. The relays are all the same so you can swap them around. If you look at the color of wires going to the courtesy lamp relay socket you can identify the correct relay. There should be a White wire which goes to the courtesy lamp bulbs, Black wire which is ground a Gray/Black wire which the CCM grounds to energize the relay and an Orange wire which is 12 volts for the primary of the relay coil.
12-13-2014, 07:03 PM
#33
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Will trace wires from that red blinking light thing and also check relay for courtesy lights, your info is very informative.. I bought a Haynes manual for 84 to 96 vettes and there is not a thing about VATS or security lights in it at all, it's not much better than an owners manual.
12-14-2014, 06:08 PM
#34
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Ran the diagnostics again and checked all 15 things, they all worked except the check engine light, it stayed on all the time, and of course the courtesy lights didn't come on.. I cleared the codes like you said and now when I check diagnostics I get a C12 showing up in panel.
There is a check gauges lamp test.
Did you trace the harness with the LED?
When you ran the test for item 10 and you saw a zero and a one in the last digit of the odometer when the test was running you should have heard the courtesy lamp relay click.
When you see a one in the far right digit of the odometer the courtesy lights should be on.
When you see a zero in the far right digit of the odometer the courtesy lights should be off.
12-15-2014, 09:11 PM
#35
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Check engine light wasn't one of indicators checked in the test.
There is a check gauges lamp test.
Did you trace the harness with the LED?
When you ran the test for item 10 and you saw a zero and a one in the last digit of the odometer when the test was running you should have heard the courtesy lamp relay click.
When you see a one in the far right digit of the odometer the courtesy lights should be on.
When you see a zero in the far right digit of the odometer the courtesy lights should be off.
There is a check gauges lamp test.
Did you trace the harness with the LED?
When you ran the test for item 10 and you saw a zero and a one in the last digit of the odometer when the test was running you should have heard the courtesy lamp relay click.
When you see a one in the far right digit of the odometer the courtesy lights should be on.
When you see a zero in the far right digit of the odometer the courtesy lights should be off.
12-16-2014, 05:37 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
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Could be the check gauges bulb is burnt out.
Red arrow points to where it should be.
It comes on for High engine oil temperature, Low oil pressure,
High coolant temp, High or Low battery voltage, Low fuel level
and High automatic transmission fluid temp.
Blue arrow points to the ambient light sensor.
If you shine a flash light on it the LCD lighting should get brighter.
If you place your finger over the sensor the LCD should dim.
If the ambient light is to bright, the CCM will not turn on the interior
courtesy lights.
Red arrow points to where it should be.
It comes on for High engine oil temperature, Low oil pressure,
High coolant temp, High or Low battery voltage, Low fuel level
and High automatic transmission fluid temp.
Blue arrow points to the ambient light sensor.
If you shine a flash light on it the LCD lighting should get brighter.
If you place your finger over the sensor the LCD should dim.
If the ambient light is to bright, the CCM will not turn on the interior
courtesy lights.
12-17-2014, 09:38 PM
#37
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Could be the check gauges bulb is burnt out.
Red arrow points to where it should be.
It comes on for High engine oil temperature, Low oil pressure,
High coolant temp, High or Low battery voltage, Low fuel level
and High automatic transmission fluid temp.
Blue arrow points to the ambient light sensor.
If you shine a flash light on it the LCD lighting should get brighter.
If you place your finger over the sensor the LCD should dim.
If the ambient light is to bright, the CCM will not turn on the interior
courtesy lights.
Red arrow points to where it should be.
It comes on for High engine oil temperature, Low oil pressure,
High coolant temp, High or Low battery voltage, Low fuel level
and High automatic transmission fluid temp.
Blue arrow points to the ambient light sensor.
If you shine a flash light on it the LCD lighting should get brighter.
If you place your finger over the sensor the LCD should dim.
If the ambient light is to bright, the CCM will not turn on the interior
courtesy lights.
12-18-2014, 07:43 PM
#38
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no crank
is there anyway you can send this to me as i have a 94 nocrank and sure its a vats related issue. Thanks.
You must have used a code reader to pull the two codes you posted for the PCM. I doubt your code reader can pull CCM codes.
SYS flashing in the speedometer LCD indicates a CCM error.
(Module 1)
With a paper clip or piece of wire short pin 4 to pin 12 and turn the ignition on. Look at the speedometer LCD. Verify if any codes are set for the CCM Module 1.
DTC 51 Invalid key detected
DTC 52 Passkey detection circuit shorted to ground
DTC 53 Passkey detection circuit open or shorted to B+
A common problem is the two stranded wires from the ignition key cylinder break or make an intermittent connection.
SYS flashing in the speedometer LCD indicates a CCM error.
(Module 1)
With a paper clip or piece of wire short pin 4 to pin 12 and turn the ignition on. Look at the speedometer LCD. Verify if any codes are set for the CCM Module 1.
DTC 51 Invalid key detected
DTC 52 Passkey detection circuit shorted to ground
DTC 53 Passkey detection circuit open or shorted to B+
A common problem is the two stranded wires from the ignition key cylinder break or make an intermittent connection.
01-27-2015, 09:31 PM
#39
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Yes as you press the Eng/Met button
01 Change oil indicator should light
02 Check gauges indicator should light
03 Fasten seat belt should light
04 Security Light should light
05 High beam indicator should light
06 Chime 1 should ding
07 Chime 2 should ding
08 LCD should blank out
09 Rear defogger relay should energize
10 Courtesy lamp relay should energize
11 Low Oil indicator should light
12 Theft Deterrent relay should energize
13 Delayed accessory bus relay should energize
14 Door ajar indicator should light
15 Horn relay energized
Most likely either the relay needs re-seating or the primary coil of the relay is bad. Should measure 50-80 ohms.
The relay is in the relay retainer which is under the passenger side dash front edge. There might be a plastic covering over them. I posted a picture of a 95 so I'm not positive a 96 is the same. You will notice there are 2 fuel pump relays. The second one was used on the ZR1 which had two fuel pumps. The relays are all the same so you can swap them around. If you look at the color of wires going to the courtesy lamp relay socket you can identify the correct relay. There should be a White wire which goes to the courtesy lamp bulbs, Black wire which is ground a Gray/Black wire which the CCM grounds to energize the relay and an Orange wire which is 12 volts for the primary of the relay coil.
01 Change oil indicator should light
02 Check gauges indicator should light
03 Fasten seat belt should light
04 Security Light should light
05 High beam indicator should light
06 Chime 1 should ding
07 Chime 2 should ding
08 LCD should blank out
09 Rear defogger relay should energize
10 Courtesy lamp relay should energize
11 Low Oil indicator should light
12 Theft Deterrent relay should energize
13 Delayed accessory bus relay should energize
14 Door ajar indicator should light
15 Horn relay energized
Most likely either the relay needs re-seating or the primary coil of the relay is bad. Should measure 50-80 ohms.
The relay is in the relay retainer which is under the passenger side dash front edge. There might be a plastic covering over them. I posted a picture of a 95 so I'm not positive a 96 is the same. You will notice there are 2 fuel pump relays. The second one was used on the ZR1 which had two fuel pumps. The relays are all the same so you can swap them around. If you look at the color of wires going to the courtesy lamp relay socket you can identify the correct relay. There should be a White wire which goes to the courtesy lamp bulbs, Black wire which is ground a Gray/Black wire which the CCM grounds to energize the relay and an Orange wire which is 12 volts for the primary of the relay coil.
