volkswagens-for-life

Ok, here's a fun question.

Lets PRETEND that we have a c4 z51 with the SAME EXACT horsepower as a c5, c6 or c7....


How would a z51 packaged c4 hold up to any model of newer generations? I'd heard a z51 c4 would kill a c5 base, but not the z06... what about other generations?

PLRX

who told you that a C4 Z51 would outperform a C5?

crowz

Base C5? Yes if its an early generation c4 with the z51 and were measuring skid pad.

volkswagens-for-life

I'm referring to a road race

crowz

To many variables with that.

If its a track that the skid pad comes into play then the early c4 with z51 should win if hp is equal in your fantasy race. But when you said road race that's just to vague.

volkswagens-for-life

Road race; with actual turns involved not just a drag race lol.

MavsAK

C5 Z51 would win, pretty handily if the drivers are equal.

Better brakes, much much stronger chassis. More advanced IRS.
C6 Z51, would be another step up.
C7...even a base C7 would flatten the C4 Z51, even if it had 460 hp like the C7.

pologreen1

You can push the c5 further more comfortably so no.

1993C4LT1

Speaking of handling, I really want a Lotus Elise. Wallet disagrees. But IMO, the C5 would win. Who cares tho, C4's are blast to drive.

Deakins

From a CG standpoint, weight distro, and a bunch of other metrics that road racers tend to look heavily at the C4 isn't as behind as everyone here seems to think....

grandspt

I drove the C5 when it first came out GM Ride and Drive. I was not impressed with the auto or manual that I drove. They set up a course with cones similar to an autocross.
The C6 ZO6 I drove was a different story definitely handled better than my Z51 GrandSport and one of the faster cars I have driven.
C4 disadvantages: 1- short suspension travel if road is not perfectly smooth it gets upset, 2- frame is not stiff.

volkswagens-for-life

Great input guys, but it seems that we have conflicting opinions?

96GS#007

I instruct for a variety of clubs. With even drivers, the C4 doesn't stand a chance. Don't forget, the later generations have way more adjustability when it comes to suspension settings. Once you start modding the C4 and applying rules to limit the C5, it's a moot point. Might as well put Hoosiers on the C4 and flat tires with cords showing on the C5.

volkswagens-for-life

Cool pictures!

I see some crazy videos on youtube of c4s just squashing everything at road races........

mike100

A C4 and a later vette with similar power? yes- I have that in my 91 ZR-1 and my base '08 C6 Z51. Even equalizing the power in the cars to attempt some kind of apples to apples comparison, you will quickly realize how much better and complete the package is on the C5/6's. The chassis and suspension is just sooo much better on the newer car- it just handles crappy roads better and more confidently. The weight distribution, brakes, curb weight difference, larger displacement engine that has torque when ever you touch the gas pedal, and better gas mileage. hmmm, yeah the seats aren't as good- that's about it...

Really the C4 is fun on the street and the newer stuff fun on the track. The limits are too high on the higher end late model cars to use on public roads and everything happens a lot faster. The traditional front engine and trans on the C4 along with the twisty chassis actually lets you know and feel the (lower) limits and is fun to drive because of that.

volkswagens-for-life

Great information! Thank you guys for posting I appreciate it. It's crazy how much technology has changed, yet it's even crazier to see videos online of how well the c4's do competitively in road racing vs other cars in the universe. It's a real eye opener for sure.

96GS#007

Not really. With enough money and time, anything can be made competitive and/or fast. People aren't going to post vidoes of them getting their a$$es handed to them A C4 benefits immensely from the addition of a roll cage to stiffen the chassis and by adding some adjustability to the suspension. However as I mentioned, once you start modding and throwing money at things, all bets are off. You see the pics of my '96 GS above. Looks very stock in the photos, just like any other GS. What you can't see is the 500+hp 383 under the hood, the stickier tires, the upgraded brakes, the modified suspension, the 5pt harness, etc.

Here's my stock as delivered LT4.....




Here's the 500+hp 383....



Don't believe everything you see on YouTube as being "stock"

Of course the other thing is the driver. In the lower run groups, it's not unusual to see a "slow" car passing a faster one because of a disparity in driver skill or simply someone taking it slow while they learn. A few years back I had a student in a Ferrari, running in the beginner run group. The guy was petrified no matter what I tried to get him to do. We got passed by everything from Z06s to BMWs, to a (no kidding) Civic Ultimately he decided a track day wasn't for him and he spent the day riding with me and watching instead of driving. We all have our limits and he found his. Nice guy and we had fun, just not in his car.

volkswagens-for-life

^You have some great knowledge... thank you so much for sharing. And great car, btw.

Aardwolf

Go out to a track day and see for yourself, you'll enjoy it!