MavsAK

He might not with a reground LT-1 cam. But he certainly would with a better cam picked out to start from.

Ported heads, intake, bigger injectors, bigger lph fuel pump isn't stock, no matter how much you want to think it is.

Your car rolled out of GM making 405 ponies, at its highest point.

To get more than that, you're going well past as it came from the factory.
There's no shame in it.

Ported, my L98s heads will support 400 HP NA, the LT-1 heads are a -little- better in that they'll bump up the compression of the engine and get you to about 425hp, pretty readily. Given that the ZR-1 is kind of a Fat ***, he easily makes up the HP delta in weight savings.

My edelbrock lower intake, and factory ported plenum will easily support the same and then some.

So should I say my L98 has Stock Heads, a Stock lower intake, and plenum?

My SLP Runners, all I did was polish em up abit so that they match my stainless long tube headers, and full 3" dual stainless exhaust... those are stock parts too with your logic.

With the Dart 400 and forged internals, being Stock (as in I didn't do any mods to them how they came out of the crate), should I also say I have a stock block and rotating assembly?

Hell ****ing No. Because it isn't.

Should I also claim, that since all I did with my supercharger, is swap a pulley which came from paxton (Thus it's a Stock Part), that since the SC is not truly modded, it too is stock?

And thus I have a Stock L98 with your logic. No seriously it's the exact same thing as your argument.

As far as bowing to the king goes. You better bring something with a little more umph than 500, or even 600 ponies.

Attachment 48365569

pushrod-v8

Why does NASCAR say its stock car racing?

It is just a word and the original point of this thread is to teach people about the ZR-1.

Fact is to get 500 to 550 hp you can do it, NA, with all the stock factory components, less the exhaust. You cannot do that for a 4th gen LT-1 or LT4, L98 or Crossfire.

Factory supplied heads, cams, block, intake, injector housing, etc.

GM was making 450 to 475 hp with the LT-5 back in the '90's before the program was stopped.

End of the day there is somebody faster and I am not worried about that. I do not want to drive a car with a large lopey cam or a whining supercharger. The LT-5 idles smooth and purrs like a kitten.

The best C4 Corvette that Chevy made is the ZR-1, period. The LT-4, LT-1 and L98 cannot touch it. Definitely not the L83 or whatever the Crossfire is called.

Which one of those have done 174.xxx mph for 24 hours?

That may be a hard pill to swallow for some but it is what it is.

So to the original person who started this thread, if you want the ultimate C4 Corvette get a ZR-1.

billy mild

Let me start off with, I dislike corvettes. Okay we are over that part...

I really like the C4 ZR-1. I can't believe I am even typing this statement. I have owned the C4 ZR-1 for over a 1 year as of August. It has been a fun journey. When I first got the car I had never even sat in a C4 or thought about buying one. What caught my eye was the Corvette was listed as a base model, then I saw the LT-5 sitting in the engine bay. I immediately called the owner up and he confirmed it was a ZR-1. When I received the car it wasn't running right, vacuum leaks, injectors were bad, and a few other things that needed attention. After all that was resolved the car ran good. I was surprised how well it ran and pulled. The car never loses power even up on the top end. The LT-5 just keeps pulling.

All this talk about which car is better C5Z or a C4 ZR-1 or C6 is not comparing apples to apples. The LSx guys always talk about CAM ONLY, or HEADS AND CAM only as if that is close to stock. Changing the Cam on an engine is a big upgrade. Requires tuning changes and what not. The LT-5 can make around 500-550 HP with all stock components. Sure it requires some porting, but the Cams don't need to change or the heads. That stays stock.

Is the power potential better with a DOHC engine, absolutely. Is it cheaper to mod, maybe not. There is nothing like hearing that LT-5 hit 7200 RPM down on the track.

You can't directly compare the C4 to a newer C5 or C6. Maybe as an all out drag car that is modded well beyond stock.

MavsAK

They are not stock factory components. Nascar does not use the word Stock, as in factory components. Hell Nascar is so vastly far from stock that you just have to look at the outside of the car, to realize "Stock Car" Stock Car racing, is a class of racing nothing more doesn't mean Stock Dealership Car. What you are confusing is Showroom Stock (which actually was a thing, and by the way the L98 has a better Racing Pedigree than your ZR-1 The L98 C4s were out right BANNED from racing because they were so dominant that no one could even put a car in the top ten with the Corvettes on the field in Escort, and Showroom Stock no other corvette, not even your ZR-1 can say this) .

By your definition, my Long Tube Runner 6.6 liter, mild cammed, supercharged engine is a Stock Engine. After all I'm still running the stock heads, never bored the block, or changed the crank it's all out of the box parts, save for the Heads, which are worked and ported factory heads.

They are extensively worked, and ported components, with regrinds on the camshafts. (Which a Regrind of the camshaft is the exact same thing as buying a new one)

Also no, the LT-5 never made 450 from the factory. It made 405. And it's 1/4 time and trap speeds confirm this.

The Ultimate C4 imo, is one that is Built preferably by the owner. Because the LT-5 isn't going to be beating any C6s and up. Sure you can keep pace with an LS6 C5 ZO6..but that's where it ends... with an engine that has been out of production for 11 years now. The Ultimate C4, is one that can spank modern cars, not cars that are more than 10 years old, but actual modern ones. Also by the way, I could have made the same power I'm making now, without the blower whine. They make helical cut gears, just for that reason.

Mine idles nice and smooth, and blowerwhine is cool. To me the Ultimate C4 is one with punchy low end torque that could rip a tree out of the ground, sounds like a muscle car, still returns mid 20s on the highway (I get 24 mpg and I live in a hilly and mountainous area), and can spank just about everything on the road.

In other words, Not Stock, and Modified.
Just like the Ultimate of any Corvette Generation. Modified.

Also I'll say this, the ZR-1 is a pale shadow next to the B2K cars. Just a boost regulator swap away, and you'll be making far more hp than the silly ZR-1s 405. Or even a worked ZR-1 that is pushing 500. If we're going to talk about Ultimate C4s, using factory components, the ZR-1 doesn't even enter that equation... it's Callaway, Period.
The 90 Callaway bangs out 190 mph all day long. It unlike the ZR-1s 405 hp, is underrated, as it can even keep pace with a out of the box stock LS7, up to top speed...and by the way it is a tree ripper in torque, that idles glass smooth and returns great mpgs.

FASTAZU

"pologreen1"

I hope you can sort thru all this and actually learn what you were looking for about the ZR-1. It may not be the newest fastest or most advanced Corvette on the block but it is one of the most unique and a large part of Corvette history and advancement that certainly opened the way for all that came after it.

What the ZR-1 achieved in its time will stand in history and just owning a part of that history is what I love about it. I for one feel very fortunate to own one. By the way when the C4 came out I hated them as a die hard C3 guy I said I would never own one.... How times change.

djpatrick35

The ZR-1 is a fantastic and unique car to own. Sure, a stocker may not pack as much horsepower as today's Corvettes, but revving to 8000 has a unique ring to it that no other Corvette can match.


I used to have one and once my C7 Callaway is paid off, I will probably get another one. They are fantastic cars and there's nothing like teaching someone a lesson in a 25 year old car!

pushrod-v8

This is the Gen III LT-5 that GM was working on that never made it to production. I believe that is 500hp on the dyno

The story and the video

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/an-en...as-alive-again


528 hp

pushrod-v8

I believe this is a stock bottom end LT-5. very radical. I could be wrong!

Hide the women and children!!!

pushrod-v8

And a little gear head **** for you guys.

That's how I roll from the factory buddy!

XXX!!!!

1985 Corvette

I had the pleasure of doing a tune up on a 1991 for an owner that let me take it for a spin afterwards. Aftermarket exhaust sounded great and you can feel those secondaries open and it pulls even more which is hard to comprehend when the traditional small block chevy is done around 5,000 rpm, the LT5 is just starting to ramp up.

Unless you're ready to leave a smoking crater in an equity line for a stroker option, it'd probably be best to keep the ZR-1 as is and put a nice exhaust on it. Sometimes it's not about being the fastest. That 375 horse model I drove would've kept me a happy man forever. A ZR-1 in this day and age is more an object of appreciation than source of stupid speed. It can do the stupid speed too, it's just gonna be big bucks compared to doing a pushrod big cube stroker that can give you similar power for a lot less.

It's only money though.

MavsAK

Engines that were never built don't really count, sadly. Otherwise we could count the Sledgehammer (which was a hell of a lot closer to being a package option than the Gen 3 LT-5) as a production vehicle.

pushrod-v8

If you think the sledgehammer was closer to being a option than a gen 3 lt-5 you are crazy.

GM and mercury marine had many versions of the lt-5 they had worked on and built. GM had nothing to do with the sledgehammer and its design. That was all callaway and lingenfelter.

Paul Workman

Just a bit more 'show n tell' comparing torque curves before and after porting. The LT5's initial design was veeeery conservative as you can see.



Things got significantly better with just a little porting (375 vs. 405 hp), and from then on the aluminum chips started flying at a dozen shops around the country. And, the LT5's appetite for more air was not lost on Mercury Marine or Lingenfelter (note the single huge runners instead of the smaller dual runners of the Gen-Is.)

Ah, but to have over 500 stock hp from a 350 cid back in the mid 90s... And, to be left with looking at Ford and Mercedes and Toyota and, and, and... to see what might have been with modern independent intake/exhaust phasing and direct injection...it brings tears to my eyes.

1985 Corvette

I agree. Amazing the airflow and power the LT5 makes....LOVES to breathe. It's my insane opinion that the C8 will be a rear mid design. They're gonna start hitting the ceiling on the front mid platform with the C7. All this rear mid Zora talk and there's no way GM lets that R&D cost go to waste on a limited production Vette only. You might get your chance to see DOHC in a Vette in the next decade.

MavsAK

The Gen 3 LT5 was no closer to hitting the streets as a production car than the Sledgehammer infact it was even farther as the Gen 3 LT-5 was never tested, or registered onto the road with a VIN! Which the Sledgehammer was.

GM and Lingenfelter and Callaway worked hand in hand on the sledgehammer, as well as development of the normal Callaway cars.

The ZR-2 option, (a high performance 454) was also more likely to happen as it actually made it into a car and tested.

Also the B2K is still the ultimate stock C4. Faster than the ZR-1, and can be made even faster than a 5k to 10k spent ZR-1, with less than a grand in parts. There's a reason you can get ZR-1s for less than 20k all day long, but never find a Callaway in the same price range save for maybe a roller.

pushrod-v8

The b2k option is not the ultimate c4 corvette. It topped out at ~178 to 180mph just like the ZR-1. What it didn't do was 174.xxx mph for 24hours and set a world record.

Callaway even bumped up the power when that ZR-1 came out to try and keep up.

Good try, but try again!

Tom400CFI

This is the road you go down when proven wrong, is it? Name calling, insulting and being condescending? As I said...you really set a good example for the ZR-1 group.



It doesn't matter. It was a made up example to make a point...which you completely missed (BTW, it's LT1 -we're not in the '70's here). The point being, any good liar can port, regrind/change cams, tune ECM's, and on and on and on...then tell people that it's stock, when it most certainly is not. You don't have to be a ZR-1 specific owner to do that. Anyone can misrepresent what their car is capable of, STOCK, by modding it, then lying that it's stock. That was the point and the HP netted by the lied about mods, really doesn't matter. The point was that if I ported my heads, intake, ECM tuned, cam swapped etc., I'd have way more than the LT1's original 300hp...and if I ran around pontificating that my 370, 400 or whatever hp LT1 was STOCK...well, that'd be a lie.



I think we "get that" at this point in the thread. I think we're all "getting" that you're comfortable lying about your car, to make it (or you?) appear better than it really is.



I avoided the comment earlier b/c it was so absurd; both NASCARS use of the word, and you "logic" in using that as a reason to justify your own misrepresentation of the truth. Here is my comment on that: "Stock car racing" is essentially a brand at this point and anyone w/any brains at all, knows that those cars aren't stock. They don't have stock architecture, engines, engine orientation, composition...nothing about them is stock.

But here is the more important point: You're going to cite a completely abused use of a word as sound reasoning for you to lie about your car, "somewhat less"?? The word "stock" has a definition. A stock car, is a car that is as it left the factory. It's pretty clear, pretty simple. If pointing out some racing organizations misuse of the word helps you feel better about misusing it yourself, then ...but it doesn't change the fact, that your car is NOT stock, and no STOCK LT5 makes 550 hp. LT5's made 375 or 405hp...STOCK.

Tom400CFI

No WAY are you that stupid....

EXACTLY! People come on here seeking GOOD, sound advice. I've been one of those people, in the past. I wanted GOOD advice...not BS. If I were looking to learn about ZR-1's, your posts would be extremely misleading! Extremely misleading.

If I knew little to nothing about the ZR-1, and a ZR-1 owner told me you could get 550hp out of the engines STOCK....WOW...that sounds fantastic! Now, even as a ZR-1 nooB, I'd know that STOCK, they were 375-405 hp...not 550, so I'd guess that by "stock" you must have meant that the hard parts were stock (as delivered) and that maybe the 550 hp was achieved w/a tune? Maybe exhaust? I wouldn't know but it sure would sound fantastic (almost unbelievable) that I could buy a ZR-1 and readily have this apparently attainable, 550hp! AWESOME! Sign me up!

Then I'd get the car, and learn that to get the 550 horse, I need to port the top end, install LTH's, exhaust, get a tune, and that "package" from Haibeck costs ~$10,000. SAY WHAT? That's not stock! "I thought these made 550 hp, stock? That's what some ZR-1 owner told me before I bought this thing!"

Who said anything otherwise about any of those engines? What does any of that have to do w/you misrepresntation of the facts?? The ZR-1 does have more potential than other C4 engines mod-for-mod (perhaps not dollar for dollar, however) -I don't think that anyone has disputed that. But alas...the ZR-1 still made 375-405hp...STOCK.

MavsAK

Actually the 90 Callaway had a top speed of 190 mph.

Which no production ZR-1 ever touched.

Maybe you should do some research.
You see, unlike the ZR-1s 405... the 90 model B2k, was actually Under Rated at 405 hp.
Oh, and the B2ks before 90? made more hp than the early ZR-1s did.

And unlike the ZR-1, you could find another 50 to 100hp for less than a thousand dollars.

pushrod-v8

https://history.gmheritagecenter.com...orvette_Option