Clutch going after under 1 year/2,000 miles? (transmission problems)
10-22-2015, 08:24 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Clutch going after under 1 year/2,000 miles? (transmission problems)
Early this year, I had my 1985 4+3 clutch assembly, slave cylinder, master cylinder, and flywheel replaced with AC Delco parts by a trusted mechanic after the long-squeaking throwout bearing had failed almost completely. The slave cylinder blew again shortly thereafter, and the linkage was adjusted when the slave was replaced. For the first several hundred miles, however, the clutch slipped badly but was broken in and working great by summer and through, when the suspension was rebuilt and I sent the car in for an alignment.
Going to pick it up at the body shop where it was done, I couldn't put it in gear and reverse simply grinded; the next day, I had the car towed down the street to the shop where the clutch was replaced... they told me to come back Monday, when it was working fine even though they hadn't touched anything. I've been driving it daily since then. However, it was only a couple of weeks later when really intrusive clutch chatter began (pulling away in first). It became less pronounced after a while until it got to the point where it wasn't a real concern. Soon after the clutch chatter subsided, the car would intermittently grind going into reverse (sometimes won't go at all, others grinding just a bit, almost always requiring some force). I'd pump the clutch pedal and shift into third and then reverse which helps marginally if at all. Sometimes the car will just slide right into reverse. This worries me because reverse is part of the overdrive, and there has been whine in direct drive (that I now realize is probably from the '85 pre-updated annular thrust bearing) since I bought the car.
Just after the reverse issue, it became very difficult to shift into first gear and somewhat difficult to shift into second gear (other gears to a lesser extent). This might have been because of worn synchros--I'm really not sure--but it seems that way because it is very easy to shift into first when rolling at about 5 mph and not too hard in other gears when rev matching properly. This, surfacing just after reverse issue, was followed by the most recent development: the reemergence of the TOB squeak from the beginning of the entire clutch saga. I noticed a week ago that, like a few months before I had to replace the clutch, there is a squeak something like a slipping belt when I engage/take my foot off the clutch. It has been getting progressively more noticeable just as it did before.
My only theories are faulty clutch, poor installment, failing overdrive, a bad clutch release fork, and maybe bad shifter rods?
Can anyone with any practical knowledge figure any of these issues out? I'd really appreciate any advice. Thanks!
Going to pick it up at the body shop where it was done, I couldn't put it in gear and reverse simply grinded; the next day, I had the car towed down the street to the shop where the clutch was replaced... they told me to come back Monday, when it was working fine even though they hadn't touched anything. I've been driving it daily since then. However, it was only a couple of weeks later when really intrusive clutch chatter began (pulling away in first). It became less pronounced after a while until it got to the point where it wasn't a real concern. Soon after the clutch chatter subsided, the car would intermittently grind going into reverse (sometimes won't go at all, others grinding just a bit, almost always requiring some force). I'd pump the clutch pedal and shift into third and then reverse which helps marginally if at all. Sometimes the car will just slide right into reverse. This worries me because reverse is part of the overdrive, and there has been whine in direct drive (that I now realize is probably from the '85 pre-updated annular thrust bearing) since I bought the car.
Just after the reverse issue, it became very difficult to shift into first gear and somewhat difficult to shift into second gear (other gears to a lesser extent). This might have been because of worn synchros--I'm really not sure--but it seems that way because it is very easy to shift into first when rolling at about 5 mph and not too hard in other gears when rev matching properly. This, surfacing just after reverse issue, was followed by the most recent development: the reemergence of the TOB squeak from the beginning of the entire clutch saga. I noticed a week ago that, like a few months before I had to replace the clutch, there is a squeak something like a slipping belt when I engage/take my foot off the clutch. It has been getting progressively more noticeable just as it did before.
My only theories are faulty clutch, poor installment, failing overdrive, a bad clutch release fork, and maybe bad shifter rods?
Can anyone with any practical knowledge figure any of these issues out? I'd really appreciate any advice. Thanks!
Last edited by C4+3=/=C7; 10-22-2015 at 08:35 PM.
10-22-2015, 08:40 PM
#2
Race Director
Early this year, I had my 1985 4+3 clutch assembly, slave cylinder, master cylinder, and flywheel replaced with AC Delco parts by a trusted mechanic after the long-squeaking throwout bearing had failed almost completely. The slave cylinder blew again shortly thereafter, and the linkage was adjusted when the slave was replaced. For the first several hundred miles, however, the clutch slipped badly but was broken in and working great by summer and through, when the suspension was rebuilt and I sent the car in for an alignment.
Going to pick it up at the body shop where it was done, I couldn't put it in gear and reverse simply grinded; the next day, I had the car towed down the street to the shop where the clutch was replaced... they told me to come back Monday, when it was working fine even though they hadn't touched anything. I've been driving it daily since then. However, it was only a couple of weeks later when really intrusive clutch chatter began (pulling away in first). It became less pronounced after a while until it got to the point where it wasn't a real concern. Soon after the clutch chatter subsided, the car would intermittently grind going into reverse (sometimes won't go at all, others grinding just a bit, almost always requiring some force). I'd pump the clutch pedal and shift into third and then reverse which helps marginally if at all. Sometimes the car will just slide right into reverse. This worries me because reverse is part of the overdrive, and there has been whine in direct drive (that I now realize is probably from the '85 pre-updated annular thrust bearing) since I bought the car.
Just after the reverse issue, it became very difficult to shift into first gear and somewhat difficult to shift into second gear (other gears to a lesser extent). This might have been because of worn synchros--I'm really not sure--but it seems that way because it is very easy to shift into first when rolling at about 5 mph and not too hard in other gears when rev matching properly. This, surfacing just after reverse issue, was followed by the most recent development: the reemergence of the TOB squeak from the beginning of the entire clutch saga. I noticed a week ago that, like a few months before I had to replace the clutch, there is a squeak something like a slipping belt when I engage/take my foot off the clutch. It has been getting progressively more noticeable just as it did before.
My only theories are faulty clutch, poor installment, failing overdrive, a bad clutch release fork, and maybe bad shifter rods?
Can anyone with any practical knowledge figure any of these issues out? I'd really appreciate any advice. Thanks!
Going to pick it up at the body shop where it was done, I couldn't put it in gear and reverse simply grinded; the next day, I had the car towed down the street to the shop where the clutch was replaced... they told me to come back Monday, when it was working fine even though they hadn't touched anything. I've been driving it daily since then. However, it was only a couple of weeks later when really intrusive clutch chatter began (pulling away in first). It became less pronounced after a while until it got to the point where it wasn't a real concern. Soon after the clutch chatter subsided, the car would intermittently grind going into reverse (sometimes won't go at all, others grinding just a bit, almost always requiring some force). I'd pump the clutch pedal and shift into third and then reverse which helps marginally if at all. Sometimes the car will just slide right into reverse. This worries me because reverse is part of the overdrive, and there has been whine in direct drive (that I now realize is probably from the '85 pre-updated annular thrust bearing) since I bought the car.
Just after the reverse issue, it became very difficult to shift into first gear and somewhat difficult to shift into second gear (other gears to a lesser extent). This might have been because of worn synchros--I'm really not sure--but it seems that way because it is very easy to shift into first when rolling at about 5 mph and not too hard in other gears when rev matching properly. This, surfacing just after reverse issue, was followed by the most recent development: the reemergence of the TOB squeak from the beginning of the entire clutch saga. I noticed a week ago that, like a few months before I had to replace the clutch, there is a squeak something like a slipping belt when I engage/take my foot off the clutch. It has been getting progressively more noticeable just as it did before.
My only theories are faulty clutch, poor installment, failing overdrive, a bad clutch release fork, and maybe bad shifter rods?
Can anyone with any practical knowledge figure any of these issues out? I'd really appreciate any advice. Thanks!
The following users liked this post:
C4+3=/=C7 (10-22-2015)
10-22-2015, 08:46 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
It was a new dual mass flywheel. As for the pilot bearing, I wish I knew for sure whether or not that was replaced... the friend who did the replacement said that he could get a good deal on the AC Delco parts so I didn't end up ordering them myself. I don't know what all was included in the AC Delco clutch kit I'm afraid. Sorry for not having the specifics but thanks for the help.
10-22-2015, 09:02 PM
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
Amotoxracer, it seems that the 4+3 clutch kit PN is ACDELCO 381223, which does contain a new pilot bearing. I'm assuming it does have a new one in that case.
I have full stroke and disengagement, so maybe this winter will be a good time to take a closer look. This should help to narrow down the problem. Thank you.
I have full stroke and disengagement, so maybe this winter will be a good time to take a closer look. This should help to narrow down the problem. Thank you.
Last edited by C4+3=/=C7; 10-22-2015 at 09:04 PM.
10-22-2015, 09:07 PM
#5
Race Director
It was a new dual mass flywheel. As for the pilot bearing, I wish I knew for sure whether or not that was replaced... the friend who did the replacement said that he could get a good deal on the AC Delco parts so I didn't end up ordering them myself. I don't know what all was included in the AC Delco clutch kit I'm afraid. Sorry for not having the specifics but thanks for the help.
I'm not ready to say the input shaft bearing is damaged .... yet.
I guess it does not matter since if the pilot bearing is messed up then the trans is coming back out anyway ...
10-22-2015, 09:08 PM
#6
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
I doubt that they put a DM FW in an '85. Probably a new single mass FW. It sounds like youre hydraulics are not functioning correctly. If it grind and/or won't go into reverse, or any other gear, the clutch isn't releasing. What releases teh clutch? The Master, slave, fork and Throw out bearing.
The following users liked this post:
C4+3=/=C7 (10-22-2015)
10-22-2015, 09:18 PM
#7
Race Director
Amotoxracer, it seems that the 4+3 clutch kit PN is ACDELCO 381223, which does contain a new pilot bearing. I'm assuming it does have a new one in that case.
I have full stroke and disengagement, so maybe this winter will be a good time to take a closer look. This should help to narrow down the problem. Thank you.
I have full stroke and disengagement, so maybe this winter will be a good time to take a closer look. This should help to narrow down the problem. Thank you.
Ok. Assuming its new and was actually replaced during install process then there's not really any good way to determine what's going on without disassembly and carefully inspecting all the parts. If the installer was some jackass that used an impact gun to draw the trans and the bell housing together then he easily could have damaged the clutch disc, the input shaft, or the pilot bearing and possibly some of the trans internals. Regardless of our speculation, it sounds like the trans is coming back out.
10-22-2015, 09:38 PM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
I doubt that they put a DM FW in an '85. Probably a new single mass FW. It sounds like youre hydraulics are not functioning correctly. If it grind and/or won't go into reverse, or any other gear, the clutch isn't releasing. What releases teh clutch? The Master, slave, fork and Throw out bearing.
Ok. Assuming its new and was actually replaced during install process then there's not really any good way to determine what's going on without disassembly and carefully inspecting all the parts. If the installer was some jackass that used an impact gun to draw the trans and the bell housing together then he easily could have damaged the clutch disc, the input shaft, or the pilot bearing and possibly some of the trans internals. Regardless of our speculation, it sounds like the trans is coming back out.