When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
And just to clarify, when I was forcing the car into gear I wasn't driving, just on my driveway.
This means that (hopefully) only the first-gear synchronizer saw any abuse. If you're lucky, it survived. It's a seriously bad idea to force any manual transmission into gear when the clutch isn't fully disengaging. Seriously. These ZF gearboxes are costly to overhaul, and there aren't many people who are capable of doing it right.
Further on my earlier -- if there is no leakage apparent and the fluid is not low, the problem is either the master cylinder or air in the system. If you replace it, I'd go ahead and replace the slave, too.
Yes absolutely, this is the toy I had bought for my wife so we want minimal future break downs lol.
Originally Posted by Daniel_Mc
kostas86,
Regardless of the mileage the car is still 26 years old. My gut is that the master or slave is gone however I do not agree that you need to replace the parts. The "new" stuff is junk. Have your OEM master and slave rebuilt by Jim at Power Torque Systems it will save you in the long run. http://www.powertorquesystems.com/
The aftermarket slaves have a thicker flange and about 1/2 of an inch longer length this will cause you to remove the 1-4 skip module from the trans to remove or install. The OEM unit will fit no problem. Plus MUCH better quality material. I am servicing a buddies ZR-1 now and the Chinese junk slave rod snapped causing his failure. Also this is not a difficult repair to do yourself. The toughest part is getting under the dash to remove the clip on the end of the rod for the master.
-Daniel
So nothing that currently exceeds the OEM quality after all these years? Do all aftermarket slaves require removal of the 1-4 skip module?
Also do you recommend going with the '91+ slave which I hear has better location for bleed screw?
Originally Posted by maddogwyatt
I've had this where it's not yet bad enough to stop you engaging gear, but within a few seconds the clutch starts to engage and drive the car away even though you still have the pedal to the floor. it's quite exciting!!
Haha, do it before it gets worse.
Originally Posted by SJW
This means that (hopefully) only the first-gear synchronizer saw any abuse. If you're lucky, it survived. It's a seriously bad idea to force any manual transmission into gear when the clutch isn't fully disengaging. Seriously. These ZF gearboxes are costly to overhaul, and there aren't many people who are capable of doing it right.
Live well,
SJW
If the clutch wasn't fully disengaging/engaging wouldn't there be grinding noises when forcing shifter into gear? I heard no unusual noises or grinding
If the clutch wasn't fully disengaging/engaging wouldn't there be grinding noises when forcing shifter into gear? I heard no unusual noises or grinding
The behavior you described is a clear indication of a clutch that is not disengaging. Fix it before you ruin the synchros.
If the clutch wasn't fully disengaging/engaging wouldn't there be grinding noises when forcing shifter into gear? I heard no unusual noises or grinding
Yeah...if you got "past" the synchros. The fact that it's not grinding...and the car is moving, and you can't get it into gear, that is proof that the clutch isn't releasing and also proof that they synchros are working their asses off. Which is why you haven't ground gears yet. Keep at it a bit longer though, and you'll get some grind...that is for sure. And then your synchro will be toast.
Thank you everyone for the feedback. Been a chaotic week/weekend and haven't got to the Vette again. I'll double check, the fluid (I can't recall the color). And just to clarify, when I was forcing the car into gear I wasn't driving, just on my driveway.
Is there a preferred clutch master and slave cylinder that everyone has been purchasing? I have read about tossing in the '91+ slave as the bleed screw is at the bottom (vs older on top) so much easier to bleed. If that's the case and no other modifications are needed, I am assuming better to go this route and reduce the amount of swears and headaches lol.
Yukon Corleone: Unfortunately I do not know any shops or have a preferred one yet for the Vette. When I replaced the waterpump and belt, I took it to the dealer as they only wanted slightly more than everyone else and included loaner.
I was debating on tackling this repair as the master cylinder appears to be fairly straightforward and the slave not too bad also.
Preferred not really since GM stopped making them a while ago however do not buy a Rhino Pac M0408. That one failed me new out of the box. It is made in China however the last GM one I replaced it with last week was made in Taiwan so not much better.
Got mine from Rock Auto, picked a Wagner as this has a sound reputation. Not the cheapest but Wagner has a good reputation. The part came in a Centric box. Who the hell is Centric. Part has no id number but says made in China. Slave was Valeo, also a good name, made in Taiwan. I guess I can't complain as the parts were cheap, they work and they are readily available. My luck finding a remote key fob have not been as rewarding. They are rare and expensive when one is finally located.
The behavior you described is a clear indication of a clutch that is not disengaging. Fix it before you ruin the synchros.
Live well,
SJW
Absolutely, not planning on driving it until fixed.
Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
Yeah...if you got "past" the synchros. The fact that it's not grinding...and the car is moving, and you can't get it into gear, that is proof that the clutch isn't releasing and also proof that they synchros are working their asses off. Which is why you haven't ground gears yet. Keep at it a bit longer though, and you'll get some grind...that is for sure. And then your synchro will be toast.
In the transition process of neutral and forcing the shifter into gear is where it would try to just slightly move forward. Once finally forced into gear with clutch in, no more of that movement.
Originally Posted by Goldcylon
Preferred not really since GM stopped making them a while ago however do not buy a Rhino Pac M0408. That one failed me new out of the box. It is made in China however the last GM one I replaced it with last week was made in Taiwan so not much better.
Originally Posted by 73n95
Got mine from Rock Auto, picked a Wagner as this has a sound reputation. Not the cheapest but Wagner has a good reputation. The part came in a Centric box. Who the hell is Centric. Part has no id number but says made in China. Slave was Valeo, also a good name, made in Taiwan. I guess I can't complain as the parts were cheap, they work and they are readily available. My luck finding a remote key fob have not been as rewarding. They are rare and expensive when one is finally located.
I heard that Sachs is a good slave cylinder and have noticed some using the Wagner clutch master and some going with AMS Automotive.
So nothing that currently exceeds the OEM quality after all these years? Do all aftermarket slaves require removal of the 1-4 skip module?
Also do you recommend going with the '91+ slave which I hear has better location for bleed screw?
I would say Jim's rebuilt OEM's are far better quality than anything else. He hand does each one so I would say better than the OEM was new. The OEM parts are repainted to look new as well. It is a little easier to bleed the later model but, to me, not a big deal either way. If you do send to Power Torque you will get the same parts back after being rebuilt. I will try and get a photo of the Chinese part next to Jims redone part tonight.
I would say Jim's rebuilt OEM's are far better quality than anything else. He hand does each one so I would say better than the OEM was new. The OEM parts are repainted to look new as well. It is a little easier to bleed the later model but, to me, not a big deal either way. If you do send to Power Torque you will get the same parts back after being rebuilt. I will try and get a photo of the Chinese part next to Jims redone part tonight.
-Daniel
Good to know, thanks. How long did it take for you to get back the rebuilt parts?
Took me longer to get around to snapping the photos. Below you can see the difference. The rebuilt unit from Jim at Power Torque was a used unit that he rebuilds. Hope this helps.
Small update.
Just haven't been able to devote time to the Vette so I sent it to a buddy's shop that works on old American cars. With summer winding down here in Chicago, I'd prefer to have it on the road again sooner than later.
Got a call that the owner of the shop was able to pump the clutch numerous times and all the gears engaged and he was able to drive the car around normally after that. He's inspecting the master, slave and clutch and will keep me posted on his findings.
I am thinking with the transmission/clutch apart, might as well toss in a new rear main seal. Also debating about tossing in a new clutch even if original still has plenty of meat left.
able to pump the clutch numerous times and all the gears engaged and he was able to drive the car around normally...I am thinking with the transmission/clutch apart, might as well ....
What makes you think that the trans is out of the car?
Culprit was the slave cylinder and soaked clutch with gear oil according to shop.
New slave cylinder, heavier duty clutch and rear u joint going in. I'll ask for the the original slave cylinder back in case I ever want to rebuild it in the future. He said RMS was good and no leaks so didn't recommend I change it. Should have the car back soon.
Picked up the car last night and couldn't be any happier with the shop and results. Shop specializes and builds lots of muscle cars and they are very passionate about their work. Installed a $300 full cast iron slave cylinder (forgot name) which he considers the best and should last forever and LUK clutch assembly kit.
Car has never felt better (crisp, more responsive, smoother, list goes on).
Yukon Corleone: I'll PM you their info. Highly recommend them.
It's not just clutch dust, dirt, grit , moisture contaminants etc. Also if the clutch master seal is already compromised.. More crap gets and looks exactly like the fluid in this video
LOVE your video- very informative !
specifically..my 92'c4 62k mi. sits...then when I go to drive will NOT go into gear... I get determined and finally muscle it in...its hard to shift the first few shifts, but then after driving for a while( warms up ??) and then shifts 'normal'.
It started this about 2000 mi ago..and now does it pretty consistently ???? where should I look first
Thanks in advance !
Val
07-18-2016, 01:22 PM
