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Old 10-22-2004, 03:15 AM   #1
nx-01
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Default Car Painted Polo Green - Darker then before ! Opinion Please

Ok guys...the short version.

My '90 C4 was painted and got the call from the auto body shop to take a look at it on Monday. The factory color is Polo Green Metallic. When I saw the car, it was a DARK color...almost black. Even when I spoke to the receptionist, to her what time I was going to stop by, I said "Yea, I am the owner of the Corvette" which she replied "Oh the black corvette, it really looks nice". I told her it is not black but Polo Green.

I have not paid for the work that was done. The guy that I am working with wants the car out of the shop by early next week (the Greenwood package, front & rear bumpers have to be reinstalled).

I have emailed him pics that I took of the car (taken a few months ago) on Wednesday afternoon to show him the original color.

Also, am I going nuts ?? but the past few days (and the next few days) are going to be cloudy aka no sun. I wonder since the car was parked in the shade and an overcast day....would the color be better viewed in direct sun light?

Ok guys...the long version...(do you have popcorn? go get some)

So my car gets hit by a LONG RV's bumper as he is backing into the parking space where the C4 is parked. Caused a gash about 4" long in the driver's hood near the wheel. His insurance's estimate is close to the body shop's estimate of $1600. I then make a choice to paint the car (which is $$$$ more) since the hood was going to get painted.

I drop the car at the body shop late May. Talk to a great guy (John) at the shop and he is familiar with corvettes. I am happy as I can be. He tell's me that he is going to be working at one of the other body shop's location next week and will be there for at least a month. He is taking the car there so he can over see the work. Where he is taking the car is a longer drive (5 miles Ambler Pa. vs. 10 miles Wayne Pa.) but I am ok with this.

Then my position at work goes away. So with that I place the C4 on the back burner, since losing income not a good thing.

I get a phone call last Friday PM from the body shop. I got home after they closed, so I called them on Monday. The person that I was dealing with does not work with them anymore and that I should call a guy named Jim. But you see Jim does not work at the body shop (Wayne Pa.) that is 10 miles from me....he works at their new body shop which is 30 miles from me (West Chester Pa.). So I call Jim to tell him I will be there at 3 PM Monday. He tells me that the car is painted.

I meet Jim. Nice guy used to own a 1974 Corvette for 10 years. Never drove it in the rain, customized it. Sold it when he get married.

Ok, so here is what I saw...

1. The car is almost black in color.

2. I try to find where the metallic in paint. It is very hard to see it. I even look at the area past the hatch at an angle, real close to the car and it looks like the metallic is buried in the paint meaning it look's like it covered up.

3. I tell him the history of the car and during the conversation I tell him that the previous owner had the glass top replaced with a new glass top since the original had a 6" crack in the glass. I tell him that the owner was nice and got her insurance to pay the $1200 for the new glass top before I bought it. He says "Oh...so it's a new top" Yes, I replied. He then showed me a curved, dual scratch about 4 inches on the glass top on the drivers side. Like something was placed on the top and it was moved and caused the scratch. He said that he would let his glass guy take a look at it on Friday. GRRRRR !

4. There are 2 vertical scraches that I find and he stated that he will see if can buff them out. Scratches on a newly painted car?

We go back to the office and talk about replacing the molding outside of the car. Jim suggests replacing it since the fasteners might not hold if the original moldings are used. Ok so I ask him to get a price and I would through catalogs that I have. Also, he had no paper work from the other guy that left the shop. So I told him that I would fax him the insurance estimate and the estimate from the body shop (Ambler Pa.).

The paint issue was on my mind as I was there and driving back home, but I needed to look at pics that I had taken a few months ago. I mean in my mind I knew the color was wrong, but since I had not seen the car since May, I wanted to double check and make sure I was not going nuts.

I call them on Tuesday to talk to him about the paint. I got a hold of him (12:50 PM) but he was busy with an insurance person. He called at 5:30 PM, left a message, I got home at 6:30 PM (went out to fax him the info at Kinko's), so I called him on Wednesday.

I told him that the car was dark in color. That the color should be Polo Green Metallic. That the car did not look that way when I dropped it off to get painted. I asked him if he sprayed the metallic first then the paint or mixed together. He stated that they mix them both together and that the shop uses factory specifications and weigh's the amount of "silver" that is used to the "hundredths".

I asked if he had gotten a price for the molding. He had not. I told him that I had a rough idea about the amount after looking in a mid america catalog.

During the phone conversation he was still stating that he wants this car out of the shop by early next week.

Also, no reason was given to me on why the car was moved from the Wayne location to the new West Chester location.

I wonder what options I have on the color issue and the glass top issue? Any thoughts/comments?

Thank you very much for reading this stuff...it makes me depressed to think that all I want was the car painted and looking great...

I will take a pictures and post them when I stop by the shop on Friday PM or on Monday PM.

Thank you for reading this stuff above...take care...John

P.s. The owner of the shops (4 in total) does high end cars, so I thought I the car would be taken care of. I do not think this happened.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:29 AM   #2
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Good luck. Sounds like you have some issues to deal with. I hope the shop makes it right. So far it doesn't look good.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:47 AM   #3
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good thing you haven't paid for the work, if its not completed to your satisfaction don't pay them , save your $ and take it someplace else. I have done this and ended travelling 200miles to find a body shop who really new vettes, well worth it though.
Good luck with it.
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Old 10-22-2004, 08:40 AM   #4
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There are two Polo greens. Not sure but I think it was in 92 that it changed to the darker version. If you park my 95 next to an older one, there is a very distinct difference. Hence, I'm thinking they used the later color on your car perhaps.
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Old 10-22-2004, 08:53 AM   #5
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Did they paint inside the doors, hood etc? You would see the difference in shades if it was that different.
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Old 10-22-2004, 09:50 AM   #6
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Click the image to open in full size.

post some!
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Old 10-22-2004, 10:29 AM   #7
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Both of the Polo Green's Polo Green Metallic and Polo Green II Metallic are clearly green in color even in dim light. The earlier Polo Green is slightly darker that the 1992 and later Polo Green II Metallic.

Also some books may identify the color code with a different name. The "Polo" is more of a marketing name at Corvette as Caddilac also used the later Polo Green II under a different name. Some books will list the color as Medium Green Metallic as was the case with my car's 45U code.

Did the shop get Bowling Green Metallic by mistake? That color is very dark and the metallic is hard to see and in dim light it does look almost black. At night, that color is hard to tell from black.

Primer color can make a difference in the body color too. Dark primers will darken the base color. GM has used a base coat/clear coat process at the Bowling Green Assembly Plant since it opened in 1981 so the body shop should have used that same process (very few places use a single stage paint for repainting newer cars)

Ask to have the painter show you specifically in the paint code book where he used the correct paint code (91U for 1990) to find the mixing formula. There should be a paint sample in the book for Polo Green Metallic and have him put the sample against your paint job for comparison.

Here's a pic of my 1992 Polo Green II Metallic vert on a cloudy day. It's still a fairly bright color.

Last edited by c4cruiser; 12-24-2013 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 10-22-2004, 10:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c4cruiser



Did the shop get Bowling Green Metallic by mistake? That color is very dark and the metallic is hard to see and in dim light it does look almost black. At night, that color is hard to tell from black.


That's what I was thinking.
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Old 10-22-2004, 11:05 AM   #9
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I hope it works out for you. But if this happens again or to anyone else. Get your price quotes and your color work etc in writing. What I do not understand is why and how they moved your Vette. I would tell them my concerns and try to work it out. They have your car though so they have the upper hand.
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Old 10-22-2004, 11:41 AM   #10
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How much did you pay?
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Old 10-22-2004, 11:42 AM   #11
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How much was the job?
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Old 10-22-2004, 11:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOWRIDE
I hope it works out for you. But if this happens again or to anyone else. Get your price quotes and your color work etc in writing. What I do not understand is why and how they moved your Vette. I would tell them my concerns and try to work it out.They have your car though so they have the upper hand.
Not necessarily. He has "their" money - only it's still his - so they need to do whatever it takes to make it theirs. His car is his car. They can't keep it from him...
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Old 10-22-2004, 12:34 PM   #13
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I'd be very upset-get them to make the top issue right! As far as the color goes-sounds like you've had good responses from the forum. Bottom line-if the colors not right it's going to depend on how far you want to take it. And if the door jams are different-I'd say "fix it". Wait for their response! Just say it's not the right color and I'm not happy! don't say anything else-wait for their response. If you're not satisfied with it-tell them.Good luck-mine supposed to be done next week.
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Old 10-22-2004, 12:44 PM   #14
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I think they got the wrong color, but I'd double check the paint code on your car with another like car just to be sure. Has it been painted before?
In California, we have the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR), if things can't be worked out with a shop. They can intercede with the shop & make life difficult for them. If they screwed up & painted with the wrong paint, they sould make it right. They might be waiting to see if you'll just go away (once you've paid for the work), then they don't have to rework the car.
You need to talk to the owner of the 4 shops after you verify the car color was wrong or whatever, explain what happened and ask what he's going to do about it. Explain to him you shouldn't be held liable for the screwup & the scratches in the new top. Don't get in his face, just be very solid & firm, have someone else witness the conversation between the two of you.
He's telling you to pick it up next week, they get paid and that means you accepted the work & color change. I'd try talking to the owner or a BAR (if neccessary) equivalent before paying on the car, you still have some time. Also, you might try to talk with the insurance company about what happened, they might be able to help. That'll threaten their business account. Insurance adjusters work for a manager that doesn't want to hear about customer problems. Ask them why the car was moved?
I'm also curious why they moved the car without an explanation to you, or a phone call explaining what they planned to do & why.

Last edited by redvtt; 10-22-2004 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 10-22-2004, 12:57 PM   #15
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Its been my expierence that every coat of paint makes the color darker. The hood has some new color over a primer, base coat, but the rest of the body is just a re-coat so it could come out darker. Not to the point of being a different color but being 2-4 shades darker.

Outside the car maybe a lighter shade body shops are black caves.
To make the shade "color" right the car will have to be repainted. Body shop personal don't stay with anyone very long its the nature of the business.

Painters are the worse for moving around.
Don't take the car till its right and you'll find another job.
Good luck with both.
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Old 10-22-2004, 01:08 PM   #16
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Hey John, if I were you: I'd write the paint shops company name on the next check in your check book. Then I'd call the bank and put a "stop payment" on that check a day or two before picking up the car. When you get to the shop, fill in whatever the amount is and date it. I'd also be sure to mention your dis-satisfaction. Then I would go ahead and file a small claims suit and have them served. Or if you want, you can wait until they file a suit, and counter theirs. At least this way you can get your car back with and no worry about trying to get your money back from then later. Personally buddy, they already had their chance with your car. They used the wrong paint, scratched your top, and scatched your new paint. I would not want to give them a second chance to get it right! What else will they damage on the second try? There really is no excuse for the mis-match on the paint being that the actual paint code is stickered right on your door, as well as being widely available through paint shops.
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Old 10-22-2004, 01:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwing76
Its been my expierence that every coat of paint makes the color darker. The hood has some new color over a primer, base coat, but the rest of the body is just a re-coat so it could come out darker. Not to the point of being a different color but being 2-4 shades darker.
Another issue here is if they used a cheap paint. The cheaper the paint, the more transparent & worst to use for a color match.

If the car was prepped correctly, the paint shouldn't be that transparent. If they made the primer or sealer coat uniform (all one color) then the color coat goes down evenly.

An example of cost & quality:
I'm currently painting a 79 Blazer 2WD, Competition Yellow - a very transparent paint. I'm using PPG for the base coat, with PPG clear outside, but OMNI clear inside. The gallon of PPG clear costs $156. The gallon of OMNI costs $45. The total costs of this project for materials & paint to color change, w/o labor, is running close to $1000. The base color alone was $380, because it has a red pigment. So does any green.
Sikkens is the best for color matching, also a high quality paint. (some will agree/disagree, but is an average agreement with the painters I spoke with)
With paint, you definitely get what you pay for, unless you know someone!
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Old 10-22-2004, 01:44 PM   #18
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Gentleman,

Thank you for the all of the messages that are posted above.

I will send personal messages to all thanking for your time and help.

I am going to the shop this afternoon to take pics and ask how they painted the car, what color code was used, show me the paint book and the color that was used to paint the car, whom is the company that made the paint that they use.

I am a calm person and I will see what occurs this day. If they used the wrong paint, I have a positive feeling they will re-paint the car.

I will post later this night what occurred.

Also, something that someone indicated about the door jams. I remember opening the door to the passenger side (on Monday) and looking at the door jam. I saw black paint, like someone used masking tape, made a square-ish template and painted it black. When I saw this I said to myself "Oh, ok they have have not finished painting the car". But during the conversation on Wednesday PM (on phone) he told me that the car was painted after I said this, "maybe the clearcoat would/might bring out the color more". I will look into the other jam on the driver's door and talk to him about it.

Thank you again to all and speak to you guys soon...John
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Old 10-22-2004, 02:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nx-01
Gentleman,

Thank you for the all of the messages that are posted above.

I will send personal messages to all thanking for your time and help.

I am going to the shop this afternoon to take pics and ask how they painted the car, what color code was used, show me the paint book and the color that was used to paint the car, whom is the company that made the paint that they use.

I am a calm person and I will see what occurs this day. If they used the wrong paint, I have a positive feeling they will re-paint the car.

I will post later this night what occurred.

Also, something that someone indicated about the door jams. I remember opening the door to the passenger side (on Monday) and looking at the door jam. I saw black paint, like someone used masking tape, made a square-ish template and painted it black. When I saw this I said to myself "Oh, ok they have have not finished painting the car". But during the conversation on Wednesday PM (on phone) he told me that the car was painted after I said this, "maybe the clearcoat would/might bring out the color more". I will look into the other jam on the driver's door and talk to him about it.

Thank you again to all and speak to you guys soon...John
The jams should not have any overspray of any kind, as you probably know. I don't understand why they'd do that, unless it was a sticker that was taped off & came up with the tape.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:23 PM   #20
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It sounds to me like you are going to end up in small claims court.

I'd go down happy as a lark, pay by credit card for the service rendered then contact your credit card company about the problem and have them stop payment then take him to small claims court for resolution.

He's got you by the ball with your property in his possession. The more you attempt to have him resolve without adjudication the less likely you are (IMHO) you are to recieve complete relief.

It seem hard for me believe that you can get "marco" polo green mixed up with a dark color.

If you have pictures of your top without the scratches that may help...sounds to me like you're being played in the ole shell game, shifting responsibility being nice, talking strong and scaring the consumer into paying for something other than what was agreed to.

Good luck...keep us informed!

This really hits close to home, cause I own a 1990 that was rearended and is in the shop as I type...getting a fresh paint, GM weather stripping all around...if that paint isn't emmaculate, then there's gonna be some furniture moving goin' on if you know what i mean.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:23 PM
 
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