Viscerl

I've bought and sold **thousands** of dollars of stuff on this and a sister forum, so I suppose it had to happen sometime

From this post, http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...88&forum_id=55 , I went to Ebay and bid on the HRE wheels.

Here's the ad: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4547967948

Well, I thought I was lucky being the winner...

I got the wheels parts very quickly. I'll give Mike kudos for shipping quickly. I had paid via Paypal within an hour of winning the auction.

What I got was obviosly a mess as soon as I pulled it out. Here's what I emailed to Mike:

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5/14
Howdy,

I got the wheels today from FedEx. Thanks for the very quick shipping and the rapid work.
I looked at the wheels after taking them out of the packing, and two of the centers are visibly irrepairably bent. I was under the impression, based on your add, that only one center was beyond repair.
I did purchase this stuff based on an estimate of their repair... which doesnt look quite as cheap any longer. I can provide photos of the warped 2 centers if it would help.

Hopefully we can work something out.

thanks,
Chris
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and a second one a few minutes later:

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5/14
Also, the remaining outer rim isnt totally round. Would have to fixed before I'd race on it.

Sorry :-/

Chris
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His response:

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5/15
Chris,

I tried to list them as accurately as I could according to what I saw first hand. w/o being a tire & wheel guy I had no way of measureing if any of the centers were bent ( beyond the obvious one clearly stated in the auction) or if the 11" had any problems. The car did go "off road" as listed in teh auction and any number of things could have altered the wheels.

For this reason I listed them in the body of the auction as such...

"These wheels were pricey when new $1,115 each for the 11's, $1034 for the 9.5's, $158 each to polish the centers, and $50 each to clear coat them for a total of $5130 from HRE. You could buy this wheel and 3 centers and have them repolished, clear coated, and new inners and outers put on for $2332 according to the HRE website. These are sold as is and could make a GREAT set of race tire wheels w/o the polish and clear and save you over $832 with the standard finish"

If everything that you state is correct, the purchase price of $260 is still an incredible deal when 1 wheel lists at $1,115 and one center at over $750.

With that said, What would make you happy at this point?
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Im pretty hopeful at this point. I figure with the condition of the wheels made obvious, an honest person would see that a refund is in order. So I send...

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5/15
Mike,

Having bought the wheel parts in order to build a set of decent racing wheels for a reasonable price, at this point only one possiblity would make me happy.
Honestly, I'd like to either send these wheels back to you or HRE so you can get a better idea of what the issues are. I'm not a tire or wheel guy either, but I can put a center on a table and look at it from the side... I can roll a wheel along a flat surface to see if it wobbles.
I'm not looking to save $1000 off the price of new HREs. There are several ads both in Ebay and on Corvette Forum for undamaged wheels for less than that. I was looking to repair a set of wheels for what your ad said (2332-832=$1500) and go racing. I can afford $1820 for some great racing wheels. Im not interested in spending $2500+When shipping these back to you,

I'll take care of shipping on my end, but I'd like what I paid (260+60, 320) back.I don't know if there are folks out there looking for a couple good centers and an inner rim, but a better description of the items might result in a pretty happy customer
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It takes him awhile... and I see that he is on Corvette Forum a couple times... so I send him another message.

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5/16
Mike,

Corvette Forum shows you online, so on the assumption that you have gotten my last two emails, I just wanted to let you know that I will be shipping the wheels back tomorrow in the original packaging. If I don't hear from you within 3 days of the initial delivery attempt date, I will file with Paypal for the refund.
I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I need to protect myself here. I would have loved to receive what was advertised in the ad. I have no use for what was delivered. I have pictures showing the bent condition of two of the centers, as opposed to one being bent according to your ad, and the bent outer portion of the rim that was advertised as usable, if you would like to verify that I am not making this up.

Chris
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Well, he finally decides to write me... but no good news here.

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5/17
I just got a chance to catch up on the past e-mails.

I'm not quite sure what you expected purchasing these wheels. I knew the one was bent visually and listed it as such and you in fact said in one of your e-mails that you would need HRE to confirm whether or not the 11" complete wheel needed repair or the second center section. Either way you got one hell of a deal on a wheelset that would normally cost several thousand dollars and would still end up saving you several hundred if not thousands of dollars once completed by HRE.I can't give exact pricing on what this would cost, thats why I gave referrence to HRE's website on repair fees.

This WAS listed in the auction along with the fact that the wheels came off a car that had been "off road" and that the wheels were sold "as is". There was no attempt to mislead but what did you think you were getting for $260 when you bid on what was a wrecked set of $5000 rims??

I have no use for the wheels and do not wish them returned to me. I think you may want to wait and see what the pay-pal filling shows prior to shipping them back to me, you may save $60. Additionally, At $260 I don't feel a partial or full discount is warrented in this situation. My advice would be to sell to the next highest bidder, thats what I have done and would if I were you.
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How lame....! I send a last email....

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Mike,
From the first paragraph of your auction:
"The Item: Item up for auction is a whats left over of my HRE 540 series 3 piece forged 17" wheels. This set was pulled form my 1990 ZR-1 after a brief off road excursion. The inner and outer lips of three of the wheels were beyond repair and have been removed, but the centers of 2 are totally rebuildable for $500 ( $250 inner lip $250 outer lip) + polish & clear fees from HRE. "
The offsets of the 3 centers you sent me, measured at 5 point along the circumference of the wheel:
SN: -8510
1.95
2.23
2.21
2.07
2.19
Variance: 0.28 inches

SN: -8836
2.55
2.11
1.89
1.13
1.82
Variance: 1.42 inches

SN: -9020
2.39
2.28
2.39
2.37
2.31
Variance 0.11 inches

All done with a vernier caliper with .001" accuracy

All 3 centers are bent. The single whole wheel is .2 inches out of round. Explain to me how this matches with the first paragraph in your auction please. Again... "the centers of 2 are totally rebuildable for $500 ( $250 inner lip $250 outer lip) + polish & clear fees from HRE."

You can either take this pile metal back, or I can leave the appropriate feedback, take this up on Corvette Forum, and file a claim with Paypal.

Your ad clearly led me to believe that this stuff could be used, in addition to $2332 to create a usable set of wheels. Based on a conversation I had with HRE today, nothing but the single inner rim and center is usable. Total to replace and repair missing wheels comes to just over $4000.

Please don't try and tell me you think that that's a great deal.

It will be interesting to see how far you will go to try and keep $320. I am obviously not going to sell this pile of metal to anyone else who might have been led to believe what I was. I am not that kind of businessman.

Chris
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So here I am at this junction. I've got a pile of almost worthless metal and the seller thinks I got a great deal. I made a claim with Paypal, per Mike's advice in this post: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...84&forum_id=50 (isn't that ironic?)

I havent left bad feedback for him on Ebay yet... but a few more days with no good news and I've got all the reason in the world. If anyone is interested, I took loads of photos.



I should have just bid on a whole set of wheels:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...973064717&rd=1

VenkmanP

If he'd just listed them as-is, then I'd agree with his "you get what you pay for" response, but his ad states they are rebuildable, and if they aren't, then a full refund is due.

His responses definitely aren't in line with his assurances in the ebay ad:

"You don't get to a 800+ postive feedback rating by doing bad buisness or describing items incorrectly, I'm proud of my feedback and it shows."

78_383_vette

He may not have described them to the best of his knowlege but he did state "These are sold as is"

Anyway, good luck and hope something good turns out from all of this.

BlackbirdZ07

I can see both sides on this one but I agree with the buyer.

Generally if you're bidding on parts that have been damaged and are advertised as "as is", then the burden is on the buyer to ask lots of questions first and accept the risk that there may be hidden damage or damage that the seller did not describe. Bidding on damaged parts is definitely "buyer beware".

However, in this instance I think the seller's description was specific enough that he should refund the money. He claimed that the wheels were repairable, and if they are not then this changes the whole deal. In this instance the buyer thought he was getting a set of repairable wheels; he did not think he was taking the risk that the wheels would not be repairable but the low price was worth the risk.

I hate to see disputes like this because the amount of money involved just isn't worth the damage to the seller's reputation. Why keep someone's money and get the negative feedback on ebay and the negative publicity on the forum? Why not just chalk this up to another $300 damage done while racing, and try to keep it on the track next time!?

toolman44092

Agreed. For $320, Mike should just take them back and avoid all the negativity.

Both sides have a point, but it's just not worth it for this small of a deal. For the record, I side with the buyer. Mike's ad was specific, and the claim wasn't true.

bizaro

ElisTwoCents

I completely agree as well. Its not that much money and the wheels were stated as rebuildable. Yes, the price that the auction ended at is far below the cost of just one wheel but the buyer didnt get what was described (probably honest mistake by seller). The "sold as is" really doesnt apply here because the seller did state they were rebuildable and that is why the this individual bid. Again a refund would be the best way to go by this, JMHO....Good Luck

OzzyC4

are they rebuildable or not, that is the question that will decide if the ad was misleading or not in a court.

Mr Mojo

kwik_ta

Both sides have valid arguements... it's just sad to see things go off like this

Viscerl

I guess I wish I could look back and see there was something different I could have done. The ad was specific enough that I didnt think alot of questions were warranted.

I agree that what was described was a great deal for the $260. But y'all didn't see my max bid. I could have been *really* left out in the cold. What I have is one rebuildable center and an inner rim (I think!). Not a place worth starting in building rims.

I am unfortunately surprised that he wanted to go this far for such little money... but it's a bad sign.

thanks guys.

For the record, I havent left negative feedback yet... I guess in some weird way I still hold out some hope.

ToyC4

Good to know, I'm no longer interested in his DRM coilover kit, I'd hate to go through the same thing if they're tweaked or damaged.

SurfnSun

I know MY name is worth more than $320 or $3,200 and so on....

Viscerl

Well... You have any HRE wheels for sale?

jwt1603

This is why E-Bay just scares the heck out of me. One opinion says "rebuildable" another says "junk". I agree with the buyer here though because it sounds like the seller really knew what the real deal was and intentionally misrepresented what was for sale. When I shopped for my latest vette I went and looked at several "perfect" vettes. Wow, what a waste of time and money on airfare, etc. IMHO E-Bay works for concert tickets and that's about it. Everything else you are taking someone else's subjective opinion on. It will be hard in court to get a clear ruling as opinions are so subjective.

CentralCoaster

Looks like the seller is just happy to have the wheels out of his hair with some money to show for it. What he fails to realize, is that he's creating a WAY bigger headache for himself by leaving you holding the bag.

JB666

Good decision

Bans25

The car did go "off road"


I could be wrong, but weren't these wheels off of a black 90 that flipped over or something? It was a while ago so I could be wrong. I just seem to remember pictures of a 90 w/HRE's heavy wrecked.

Viscerl

My 99 Camaro SS seems to go "off road" every other track day. I like driving 10/10ths I guess. Ive never damaged a wheel yet... but I could see how you could total a car. It does not mean wheels are not rebuildable. I can also imagine how you might go off road so as to destroy all 4 wheels and not total the car. And then again I can imagine how you could destroy all the wheels an stay on the road, too

weelanddeal

if you would like email me at jpamaral@aol.com and i will email you a picture of the car in question as i have a pictures of it,