aqualung

Nathan started a post for me a couple of weeks ago trying to figure out my valvetrain/lifter problems. I thought I would start a new thread because when we took the motor apart, we found a total of 4 Comp R lifters damaged in my motor. The retainers or clips literally came apart. My cam got severe damage as a result.

It seems I am not the only one with Comp R troubles:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...lifter+failure

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...lifter+failure

Comp has stated that the lifter failures are result of severe valve float or incorrect adjustment. Now I am pretty sure I did not have severe valve float because I had no bent pushrods or valves and the springs are fine. I chalk my problems up to incorrect installment/adjustment. But to come apart like that? You think they would be strong and a little forgiving.

Has anyone else had Comp R troubles?

I have lost all faith in Comp R lifters. Is there another alternative besides stock lifters? And if I do go with stock, can they handle a cam with 224/230 duration and around .600 lift?

Corvette Kid

MEGALADON

you will find all kind of complaints on the f-body forums about those.

Everyone is having problems with them!!! and are saying to stay away from them..

FD2BLK

Comp has stated they are only for race motors, what ever that means. I wouldn't want my "Race" motor to bite it due to a faulty retaining clip anymore then my everyday drive. You are definatly not the first with this problem.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Lifter

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...highlight=Comp

Nathan Plemons

We need to be very specific here, are we talking LIFTER failure or the lifter retainer failure? The problems on the camaro forums seem to be with the lifter itself coming apart. The problem you described originally sounds like a problem with the lifter retainer, not the lifter itself.

steve40th

I think the lifter retainer is at fault. Bret Bauer was the person who really found this out and is informing people of it.
Out of the 19 companies I emailed in regards to this, none have had failures. TPIS doesnt think they are worth the money for a motor thats street driven. I think within 2 years they had a new company make them for them, and the retainers are at fault, along with there shady pre load, which is really loose.

Nathan Plemons

Again we may be talking about two parts. The "retainer" which is internal to the lifter itself? Or the "retainer" which holds the two lifters perpendicular to the cam lobes which you re-use your stock ones?

From what I understood of Jody's original problem the lifter didn't come apart, it came out of the retainer somehow and turned sideways.

steve40th

From Comp Cams:
I emailed comp a link to this post and here was the reply i got.

"Any of our "R" series lifters are race lifters. The preload must be
maintained, when the lifter pumps up with oil it acts like a solid.
The people on these message boards complain about only getting 1000 or 3000 miles, turning the motor 6500 + and finding clips in the oil pan and
probably never checked the preload in those 1000 or 3000 miles. How
many pass's down a quarter mile does that equal to?? (750 passes) Most
racers with solid rollers replace or have there lifters rebuilt around 50-100
pass's depending on the application. Let me remind you this is a race
lifter. They are very picky on the .002-.004 of preload if that is not
there the clips comes out. Using a dial indicter when setting this
small amount of preload is the most accurate way. This needs to check
depending on how hard the engine is ran and how often. We will replace the
lifters with new lifters but only after the customer is told this very same
thing. Someone hit it on the head about using an OEM style of lifters
and these should use if the person does not want check or readjust preload
on a regular time frame. If they need a set replaced have them call our
tech line (800-999-0853) and get a return # (RMA). This is limited for a
term of 1 year from the date of purchase. Feel free to post on the board
and have them call our tech dept. when needing help or have questions."

VR'92

I just put a set of those in

Nathan Plemons

Funny, seems like they should change their advertising. Directly from the comp cams catalog

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Cu...ML/279-282.asp

**************************************** *************
Pro Magnum Hydraulic

High Performance Hydraulic Roller Lifters

COMP Cams Pro Magnum Hydraulic Lifters are specifically designed to perform at higher engine speeds. When engines are equiped with a hydraulic roller camshaft, high rpm is limited by the improper position of the internal piston as the lifter inevetiably "pumps up". This improper location results in open valves and therefore leads to lost power or sometimes even engine failure.

The only other mention is a tech tip which says the following

Pro Magnum Lifters must be installed on an engine with ADJUSTABLE rocker arms and preloaded to .002"-.004". Always set the preload with the engine warmed to normal operating temperatures to allow for thermal growth.
**************************************** ************

Where exactly does it say this is a race only application that isn't suitable for street use? It's ironic how they sell these lifters with no mention of them being "race only" and then want to complain when people use them in street applications.

Oh well, like I said, 32k miles with no problems.

steve40th

I understand it to be the retainer that hold the plunger in, where the pushrod touches, its that little ring in there.

Nathan Plemons

Which is the failure that I personally witnessed on a friend's car that certainly had some rocker adjustment issue's. On Jody's case though he never mentioned the lifter coming apart, he mentioned the lifter turned sideways which is a completely different problem.

aqualung

Nathan, at first we saw the bent spider leg and 2 lifters turned sideways. When we tore the engine apart, we found 2 more lifters with the retainers broken. One of them was broken so bad it caused severe, and I mean SEVERE, damage to one of my cam lobes. My friend gets a kick out of showing how bad the damage is to his mechanic friends at work.

I will take pictures of the damaged lifters and cam and post them as soon as I can (I'm going away for the long weekend). But the broken lifter pictures posted on camaroz28 forum look almost exactly my broken lifters. Read some of their threads. Interesting stuff. People are having some the exact same problems with these lifters

Also, my 2 lifters that turned sideways were also damaged but we assumed that was because they had turned sideways (if that makes any sense).

I think my problems were caused by incorrect adjustment AND poor lifter design and manufacturing by Comp Cams. Some of the Z28 guys believe there was a bad batch of lifters sold by Comp. Others say the old lifters had a C clip design, while the new lifter design doesn't.

I believe Comp is looking closer into this problem than they are letting on.

steve40th

Aqualung, can you possibly send me photos? I just took a valve cover off, and I cant see any retainers? But , I cant remember what they looked like before install

aqualung

Steve,

I can send you photos but the damaged lifters are at my friend's shop about an hour away from me. I am going away for the long weekend, but when I get back I will send you photos.

There is photos of damaged lifters on the camaroz28 forum that look almost exactly like mine.

Also, you are going to have to take your intake off if you want to see the lifters and the "retainers".

I will send you a PM soon.

No Go

I've run a set for 15,000 miles thus far...no issues.

Redline of 6975 rpm...lots of miles up there.

My limited experience/common sense is that if the clip is failing...that part shouldn't be under ANY stress under correct operation...as no load is put on that if the engine has correct valve adjustment and no valve float.

When you throw wrong adjustment in there or valve float...things start getting slack and impacting that little clip for which it wasn't designed for.

Did the tips of your valves show any 'x' ing...witness marks in the shape of x or circular x? This is an indicator of something amiss with valve float or adjustment-I had this on mine when I had sub standard valve springs...

Just an observation...

steve40th

Thanks. I am also looking at what they look like before. The website for Comp Cams has a view of like 5, and they all have different retainers. I can see very clearly on the top of one of my lifters, but I cant see if there is any retainer. I dont remember seeing the thin wire looking ones of the Camaro Z28 forum, from the ones blown up, they looked like little cups.

steve40th

I agree the clip shouldnt be under any stress, but I think the wa Comp Cams tells you to pre load/adjust the lifter does that. This load method allows the lifter to rev higher, I beleive. I am not an engineer, but it seems thta the lighter the pre load, the more it acts like a solid, per se. We have always loaded our motors with 1/4 to half a turn, unlike GMs recommended 1 full turn, which helps the motor get a little higher rpms.
Even the new Rhoads Hydraulic roller lifters tell you Not to adjsut to loose as it cause the plunger to rest against the retainer casuing valve train damage.

steve40th

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394574
Good pics and explanation

Bruce

Damn comp cam R lifter cost more than all other lifter. It supposed to be the best and strongest lifter. While back I almost bought a set during the 383LT1 stroker build up. But I some how decided to stay with the lifter that I bought from LPE when I had my head & cam combo. The LPE lifter is basily about the same as OEM. So far I never have any lifter problem. My cam is extreme energy cam 222/230 @.05 .565/.605 lift. I say stay with OEM lifter will be fine.