Headers...Shorties VS Long Tubes.
#1
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Headers...Shorties VS Long Tubes.
Whats the real deal here....is one better than the other?....if so why?.
If I ask this question enough I always get a different answer/opinion.
It seams most people are using Hooker LT's...but there are certenly cheeper solutions, especialy in a shortie.
thanks
Dave
If I ask this question enough I always get a different answer/opinion.
It seams most people are using Hooker LT's...but there are certenly cheeper solutions, especialy in a shortie.
thanks
Dave
#3
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Originally Posted by Achilleus07
Long tubes= Better airflow = More power (and in my opinion better sound)
A shortie with 1 5/8 primary and 3" collector Vs a LT of the same dimentions....how much of a difference are we talking about 1cfm 100cfm?
#4
Le Mans Master
Guys, there's a bit more involved.
Here is a quick primer that you might find helpful.
Don't get too wrapped up in some of the voodoo
names and products.
If you want to dive into the deep end, I agree the
book they mention is a good source of information
- ‘The Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake
Systems' by Phillip H. Smith’.
.
Here is a quick primer that you might find helpful.
Don't get too wrapped up in some of the voodoo
names and products.
If you want to dive into the deep end, I agree the
book they mention is a good source of information
- ‘The Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake
Systems' by Phillip H. Smith’.
.
#5
Race Director
In very simple terms, long tubes help scavenge better than short tubes. It's in the design. Better scavenging increases your horsepower potential. BUT this is only in the higher RPM ranges. That's about as simple as I can put it.
There are reasons for shorties as well as long tubes.
Shorties: easier to install, replaces the iron rusty looking manifolds, provides a small increase in flow potential, meets EPA emmissions, and they sound better than the manifolds.
Long tubes: You have to go with new cats (if you need them), provides better flow, sound is better than shorties and most states that are stinkers on emissions don't allow them.
There are reasons for shorties as well as long tubes.
Shorties: easier to install, replaces the iron rusty looking manifolds, provides a small increase in flow potential, meets EPA emmissions, and they sound better than the manifolds.
Long tubes: You have to go with new cats (if you need them), provides better flow, sound is better than shorties and most states that are stinkers on emissions don't allow them.
#6
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It IS all about scavenging. The problem with shorties, is that because of their length, that are "tuned" for an rpm range you can't or won't often use. Therefore, they are of extremely limited value on 90+% of our cars.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
#7
First pull (with 1-5/8-inch JBA shorty headers): 405.1 hp at 6,100 rpm; 396.1 lb-ft at 4,700 rpm
Second pull (with 1-5/8-inch long-tube headers): 407.7 hp at 6,000 rpm; 397.8 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm
Third pull (with 1-7/8-inch long-tube headers): 411.2 hp at 6,300 rpm; 393.6 lb-ft at 5,000 rpm
Second pull (with 1-5/8-inch long-tube headers): 407.7 hp at 6,000 rpm; 397.8 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm
Third pull (with 1-7/8-inch long-tube headers): 411.2 hp at 6,300 rpm; 393.6 lb-ft at 5,000 rpm
Robert Velasco's GS #340
354 RWHP - 352 TQ
Shorty headers and stock GM cats
(Long tubes and no cats pulled 357 RWHP - 342 TQ)
354 RWHP - 352 TQ
Shorty headers and stock GM cats
(Long tubes and no cats pulled 357 RWHP - 342 TQ)
#8
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C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Shortys=5-7
LTs=15 or so on an L98.
LTs=15 or so on an L98.
#9
Le Mans Master
Wow !
On top of 'small ID vs large ID' and 'cats vs no cats',
now we have shorties vs LTs.
I'm going to make myself comfy and jes' set back
a spell ...
.
On top of 'small ID vs large ID' and 'cats vs no cats',
now we have shorties vs LTs.
I'm going to make myself comfy and jes' set back
a spell ...
.
#10
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Hey thanks to you all....
I understood that the different lenghts would move the peeks up and down the rpm range.
thanks steve for the dyno comparison, from the strong opinions that i have heard from LT users i had expected a greater difference. Very surprised that there was only a couple of HP and a couple of foot pounds difference in the 1 5/8 pulls you have there.
thanks again guys.
Dave
I understood that the different lenghts would move the peeks up and down the rpm range.
thanks steve for the dyno comparison, from the strong opinions that i have heard from LT users i had expected a greater difference. Very surprised that there was only a couple of HP and a couple of foot pounds difference in the 1 5/8 pulls you have there.
thanks again guys.
Dave
#11
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Originally Posted by Slalom4me
Guys, there's a bit more involved.
Here is a quick primer that you might find helpful.
Don't get too wrapped up in some of the voodoo
names and products.
If you want to dive into the deep end, I agree the
book they mention is a good source of information
- ‘The Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake
Systems' by Phillip H. Smith’.
.
Here is a quick primer that you might find helpful.
Don't get too wrapped up in some of the voodoo
names and products.
If you want to dive into the deep end, I agree the
book they mention is a good source of information
- ‘The Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake
Systems' by Phillip H. Smith’.
.
#12
Le Mans Master
You don't indicate which engine you have.
Just keep in mind that L98 shorties are built
a bit differently than those ones in the test.
The ones I've seen look like block huggers
and resemble the OEM manifolds.
.
Just keep in mind that L98 shorties are built
a bit differently than those ones in the test.
The ones I've seen look like block huggers
and resemble the OEM manifolds.
.
#13
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St. Jude Donor '04-'05-'06-'07
Originally Posted by steve9899
#14
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The numbers quoted in the chart are interesting, and may help someone win a bar, or a bench racing bet. They are great if you are driving a dyno or never let your rpms wander out of the 4500 to 6500 range. Remember, there is a lot more to a power or torque curve than just the peaks.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
#16
My point of view is why do things twice. Dave is thinking of doing a 383 in the future, or a motor build up. That is why I went with 1 3/4 Hookers. Didnt want to spend money twice. Plus, My L-98 has enough torque allready, Its the higher RPM's that I want to increase.
#17
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Originally Posted by steve9899
Pretty much everything I've read says shorties give more low-end torque, which is what most of us want.
If you have dyno results to the contrary, let's see them.
If you have dyno results to the contrary, let's see them.
RACE ON!!!
#18
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Originally Posted by GrEeNdAyZ
I understood that the different lenghts would move the peeks up and down the rpm range.
thanks steve for the dyno comparison, from the strong opinions that i have heard from LT users i had expected a greater difference. Very surprised that there was only a couple of HP and a couple of foot pounds difference in the 1 5/8 pulls you have there.
#19
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St. Jude Donor '04-'05-'06-'07
Originally Posted by steve9899
Pretty much everything I've read says shorties give more low-end torque, which is what most of us want.
If you have dyno results to the contrary, let's see them.
If you have dyno results to the contrary, let's see them.
#20
So post some dyno results that prove something. In three years of reading "shorties are worthless" all over the place on this forum, I've never seen one shred of evidence posted to support the claim.
The comments about wanting to see the whole dyno sheet are quite valid. I want to see them too. Post some.
Until then, we have some evidence that says the claim is false. It may not be the best evidence, but it's all anybody has offered.
The comments about wanting to see the whole dyno sheet are quite valid. I want to see them too. Post some.
Until then, we have some evidence that says the claim is false. It may not be the best evidence, but it's all anybody has offered.