Is there a such thing as a safe amount of nitrous?
05-19-2006, 09:53 PM
#1
Drifting
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Is there a such thing as a safe amount of nitrous?
I am seriously thinking of getting nitrous. I currently have a 383 stroker with about 430 hp but without getting in to my build I was wondering is there a general safe amount of nitrous? I was thinking of getting a 100 shot but from the builder and the installer they both stated 75 would be safe. I just want to get a general consensus if there is a such thing a safe amount of nitrous with out putting out big bucks for other mods. Just to let you know I plan on having a respected shop do the work including reprograming. Thanks for any info you can give me!
Last edited by vettefast; 05-21-2006 at 06:40 PM.
05-19-2006, 11:30 PM
#3
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i have nitrous on my car. if the pistons arnt forged dont put it on. if they are then i wouldnt put anymore than a 100 shot on it,unless you have big rods and crank too.if you have those then 150 or 175 would work.
05-19-2006, 11:31 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by rick lambert
Yep, your builders are right, above 75 you really need to have a strong bottom end...I have known stockers to run 75...without ant problems.
05-19-2006, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bigwave71
i have nitrous on my car. if the pistons arnt forged dont put it on. if they are then i wouldnt put anymore than a 100 shot on it,unless you have big rods and crank too.if you have those then 150 or 175 would work.
Last edited by vettefast; 05-19-2006 at 11:45 PM.
05-20-2006, 05:22 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by REDC4CORVETTE
Rule of thumb 35% of you base HP you should never have a problem.
50% of the base HP is usually the max to be safe.
50% of the base HP is usually the max to be safe.
I hope you don't mind me asking you where you got that equation from but from that calculation I should be fine! If I find that calculation is to live by I will call and make a appointment in the near future! Please let me know the source! If you can, Thanks!
05-20-2006, 05:45 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by bigwave71
i have nitrous on my car. if the pistons arnt forged dont put it on. if they are then i wouldnt put anymore than a 100 shot on it,unless you have big rods and crank too.if you have those then 150 or 175 would work.
Not to discredit you but your mods on your profile do not show nitrous or forged internals? were these recent mods?
I have been on this forum for a while and I try to take advise from proven members who have gone through the many performance mods that I am asking about? I am not downing your opinon but if I had nitrous and forged internals they would be on the top of my mod list obove what you have now? ( at least on it? )I am just looking for a expearanced answer! Thanks!
05-20-2006, 06:19 AM
#9
Safety Car
I have about 500 links and It would take me a while to find them that referr to this % for nitrous.
Just so you know I have a nitrous pump station.I am the only one here that pumps nitrous.
I tell all the guys what they should run .I can say that rule is almost always right.Everyone I have found that has not followed those rules has had a problem.I can tell you the rules don't apply if the equipment is faulty.I still hold the record for the best and bigest NITROUS explosion at the track.
Oh by the way how is that Jaspers performance transmission holding up?
You should not need any reprograming.I use the MSD6AL and the MSD dial retard box.They said it was not advised but it has been working for me for years.
Your D36 will not hold more than a 75 shot off the line,Don't ask how I know!
You should be able to use a 150 shot if you had a D44.
If you are using aftermarket shocks and not factory you will sheer off the tops and break a ton of motor mounts.
I saw your combo and I would not be worried,Do get the rearend fluid changed ,add 2 bottles of the addative and realigh the rear to the agressive street or Dragracing spects,camber caster in at the bottom by at least 2 degrees.
Just so you know I have a nitrous pump station.I am the only one here that pumps nitrous.
I tell all the guys what they should run .I can say that rule is almost always right.Everyone I have found that has not followed those rules has had a problem.I can tell you the rules don't apply if the equipment is faulty.I still hold the record for the best and bigest NITROUS explosion at the track.
Oh by the way how is that Jaspers performance transmission holding up?
You should not need any reprograming.I use the MSD6AL and the MSD dial retard box.They said it was not advised but it has been working for me for years.
Your D36 will not hold more than a 75 shot off the line,Don't ask how I know!
You should be able to use a 150 shot if you had a D44.
If you are using aftermarket shocks and not factory you will sheer off the tops and break a ton of motor mounts.
I saw your combo and I would not be worried,Do get the rearend fluid changed ,add 2 bottles of the addative and realigh the rear to the agressive street or Dragracing spects,camber caster in at the bottom by at least 2 degrees.
Last edited by REDC4CORVETTE; 05-20-2006 at 06:34 AM.
05-20-2006, 10:53 AM
#10
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no N2O is the only "safe" way to go. Any number of things can go wrong when spraying and all of them can end badly.
On a stock motor some can spray up 150 without a porblem and some say no more the 100 hp.
If your bottom end is strong you should be safe with up to 100 - 150.
But I would trust your bulder, he knows what's in the motor and what it will take. IHO, 75 hp is not worth messing with and taking the chance.
On a stock motor some can spray up 150 without a porblem and some say no more the 100 hp.
If your bottom end is strong you should be safe with up to 100 - 150.
But I would trust your bulder, he knows what's in the motor and what it will take. IHO, 75 hp is not worth messing with and taking the chance.
05-20-2006, 11:58 AM
#11
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whether you go ''75'' , ''100'', or ''125'' HP is really academic...nobody can predict or control that precisely on a 350+ c.i. engine..
compared to the cylinder pressures generated by ''normal'' detonation (pinging) the nitrous is nothing..
i don't run a bottle now cause its a pita to reload after 30 seconds ''on the button''..you really should do the minimal (around here anyway) paperwork to have your own "filling station"...but the stuff works--used it on boats, street racers, smotormickles 20 years ago when it first came out and nobody, us included, knew how to handle it--we broke a lot of stuff--find somebody who knows to help you avoid problems
DO NOT test the solenoids without the engine running (don't ask how i know)
compared to the cylinder pressures generated by ''normal'' detonation (pinging) the nitrous is nothing..
i don't run a bottle now cause its a pita to reload after 30 seconds ''on the button''..you really should do the minimal (around here anyway) paperwork to have your own "filling station"...but the stuff works--used it on boats, street racers, smotormickles 20 years ago when it first came out and nobody, us included, knew how to handle it--we broke a lot of stuff--find somebody who knows to help you avoid problems
DO NOT test the solenoids without the engine running (don't ask how i know)
05-20-2006, 12:35 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
There was a magazine that placed a stockish SBC on the dyno
and then kept upping the shot until they hurt the motor. It was
interesting to see the level they managed to attain.
If I had a vehicle that was configured for easy engine R&R, I would
consider buying engines from an auto wrecker and just swap them
out as they expired - I think the smiles per dollar expended would
favour this approach over expensive engine mods and the money
saved could be spent on the rest of the drivetrain.
However, under the circumstances, I have decided to avoid nitrous.
Self-awareness tells me that although I might start with a 'safe' shot,
the ease of bumping this up is where potential trouble lies.
Sure looks like fun, though.
.
and then kept upping the shot until they hurt the motor. It was
interesting to see the level they managed to attain.
If I had a vehicle that was configured for easy engine R&R, I would
consider buying engines from an auto wrecker and just swap them
out as they expired - I think the smiles per dollar expended would
favour this approach over expensive engine mods and the money
saved could be spent on the rest of the drivetrain.
However, under the circumstances, I have decided to avoid nitrous.
Self-awareness tells me that although I might start with a 'safe' shot,
the ease of bumping this up is where potential trouble lies.
Sure looks like fun, though.
.
05-20-2006, 02:42 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
There was a magazine that placed a stockish SBC on the dyno
and then kept upping the shot until they hurt the motor. It was
interesting to see the level they managed to attain.
and then kept upping the shot until they hurt the motor. It was
interesting to see the level they managed to attain.
actually find the max HP limit for nitrous on a stockish SBC.
Extreme Squeeze - Chevy Hi Performance
How Much Nitrous Can a Junkyard Small-Block Take?
By Scott Crouse
"Brule pulled the dyno handle and the engine climbed back up to 4,700 rpm
where he again hit it with a 325hp shot of Nitrous Works gas. The
engine literally jumped to the side as it made 655 lb-ft at 4,800 rpm
and an honest 599 hp at the same rpm."
So, 600 HP from a 2-bolt main. At this rate, I could see myself changing a lot of junkwhere he again hit it with a 325hp shot of Nitrous Works gas. The
engine literally jumped to the side as it made 655 lb-ft at 4,800 rpm
and an honest 599 hp at the same rpm."
engines for what similar naturally aspirated crank HP costs to build.
.
05-20-2006, 04:23 PM
#14
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sorry for not keeping my upgrades up to date, yes it is a fairly new upgrade. i put a 100 shot on my motor and about 4 passes later i exploded a piston into several thousand pieces.got a new engine built,everything is stock but the rods and pistons which are forged nitrous pistons. i will try to keep my upgrades up to date. check my updates now thanks for the reminder.
Last edited by bigwave71; 05-20-2006 at 04:52 PM.
05-20-2006, 05:32 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
How much nitrous?
My comments may not sit well with some but I have been running nitrous since 1985 so my experience level is a bit different than many on this forum. I have personally sprayed a 1985 stock Vette with 100, 125, 150, 175 and 200 horsepower and I never any issues. There are some keys to keep in mind if you want them to live long and you need to know when to hit the button and when not the engage it.
Based on 75 to 100 nitrous jetting you should not have any issues at all unless your engine is not in good repair. If you are looking for a margin of safety you should consider the following:
#1. Never overheat your bottle over 1000 psi or you may go lean.
#2. Better fuel when you are going to spray the engine (93+ octane)
#3. Tighten the spark plug gap a bit (depends on how much N20).
#4. Run a slightly colder spark plug (depends on how much N20).
#5. Nitrous likes less timing so remove 3-4 degrees of timing per 100hp.
#6. Don't spray it AT ALL when you're at 1500 to 2000 rpm.
#7. If your engine is really hot, don't spray it period.
#8. Never EVER engage your nitrous system in the waterbox or during a burnout because nitrous makes your engine rev FAST once it engages.
In most cases if you have a problem with a nitrous system it's generally due to excessive bottle pressure or a lean/detonation issue. You CAN spray a cast piston engine to 200+ horsepower if your tune is right. Now...the real question is can the rest of your car take the added power.
Based on 75 to 100 nitrous jetting you should not have any issues at all unless your engine is not in good repair. If you are looking for a margin of safety you should consider the following:
#1. Never overheat your bottle over 1000 psi or you may go lean.
#2. Better fuel when you are going to spray the engine (93+ octane)
#3. Tighten the spark plug gap a bit (depends on how much N20).
#4. Run a slightly colder spark plug (depends on how much N20).
#5. Nitrous likes less timing so remove 3-4 degrees of timing per 100hp.
#6. Don't spray it AT ALL when you're at 1500 to 2000 rpm.
#7. If your engine is really hot, don't spray it period.
#8. Never EVER engage your nitrous system in the waterbox or during a burnout because nitrous makes your engine rev FAST once it engages.
In most cases if you have a problem with a nitrous system it's generally due to excessive bottle pressure or a lean/detonation issue. You CAN spray a cast piston engine to 200+ horsepower if your tune is right. Now...the real question is can the rest of your car take the added power.
05-21-2006, 08:59 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by NitrousSam
My comments may not sit well with some but I have been running nitrous since 1985 so my experience level is a bit different than many on this forum. I have personally sprayed a 1985 stock Vette with 100, 125, 150, 175 and 200 horsepower and I never any issues. There are some keys to keep in mind if you want them to live long and you need to know when to hit the button and when not the engage it.
Based on 75 to 100 nitrous jetting you should not have any issues at all unless your engine is not in good repair. If you are looking for a margin of safety you should consider the following:
#1. Never overheat your bottle over 1000 psi or you may go lean.
#2. Better fuel when you are going to spray the engine (93+ octane)
#3. Tighten the spark plug gap a bit (depends on how much N20).
#4. Run a slightly colder spark plug (depends on how much N20).
#5. Nitrous likes less timing so remove 3-4 degrees of timing per 100hp.
#6. Don't spray it AT ALL when you're at 1500 to 2000 rpm.
#7. If your engine is really hot, don't spray it period.
#8. Never EVER engage your nitrous system in the waterbox or during a burnout because nitrous makes your engine rev FAST once it engages.
In most cases if you have a problem with a nitrous system it's generally due to excessive bottle pressure or a lean/detonation issue. You CAN spray a cast piston engine to 200+ horsepower if your tune is right. Now...the real question is can the rest of your car take the added power.
Based on 75 to 100 nitrous jetting you should not have any issues at all unless your engine is not in good repair. If you are looking for a margin of safety you should consider the following:
#1. Never overheat your bottle over 1000 psi or you may go lean.
#2. Better fuel when you are going to spray the engine (93+ octane)
#3. Tighten the spark plug gap a bit (depends on how much N20).
#4. Run a slightly colder spark plug (depends on how much N20).
#5. Nitrous likes less timing so remove 3-4 degrees of timing per 100hp.
#6. Don't spray it AT ALL when you're at 1500 to 2000 rpm.
#7. If your engine is really hot, don't spray it period.
#8. Never EVER engage your nitrous system in the waterbox or during a burnout because nitrous makes your engine rev FAST once it engages.
In most cases if you have a problem with a nitrous system it's generally due to excessive bottle pressure or a lean/detonation issue. You CAN spray a cast piston engine to 200+ horsepower if your tune is right. Now...the real question is can the rest of your car take the added power.
My points to the original poster - your engine builder likely has a vested interest in you NOT running N20 as he doesn't want word getting out that one of their engines came apart . . . if it did. I have talked extensively with NOS and Nitrous Works with previous cars and both told me I could put 150 hp in ANYTHING as long as all of the items Nitrous Sam mentioned are addressed. If you have forged internals, I believe is 200 is a no brainer - again, if your ignition is working well, and you have your fuel system sorted out.
There really is no right answer as every engine is going to have a different breaking point. But, you need to separate the advice you get from those who've sprayed and those whose experience is limited to magazines.
05-21-2006, 09:32 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by redrose
whether you go ''75'' , ''100'', or ''125'' HP is really academic...nobody can predict or control that precisely on a 350+ c.i. engine..
compared to the cylinder pressures generated by ''normal'' detonation (pinging) the nitrous is nothing..
i don't run a bottle now cause its a pita to reload after 30 seconds ''on the button''..you really should do the minimal (around here anyway) paperwork to have your own "filling station"...but the stuff works--used it on boats, street racers, motorcycles 20 years ago when it first came out and nobody, us included, knew how to handle it--we broke a lot of stuff--find somebody who knows to help you avoid problems
DO NOT test the solenoids without the engine running (don't ask how i know)
compared to the cylinder pressures generated by ''normal'' detonation (pinging) the nitrous is nothing..
i don't run a bottle now cause its a pita to reload after 30 seconds ''on the button''..you really should do the minimal (around here anyway) paperwork to have your own "filling station"...but the stuff works--used it on boats, street racers, motorcycles 20 years ago when it first came out and nobody, us included, knew how to handle it--we broke a lot of stuff--find somebody who knows to help you avoid problems
DO NOT test the solenoids without the engine running (don't ask how i know)
05-21-2006, 01:42 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by REDC4CORVETTE
Oh by the way how is that Jaspers performance transmission holding up?
05-23-2006, 05:15 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by LT-4 CE
But, you need to separate the advice you get from those who've
sprayed and those whose experience is limited to magazines.
sprayed and those whose experience is limited to magazines.
at me.
While I agree that it is fair comment, I'm a bit puzzled because:
Originally Posted by NitrousSam
I have personally sprayed a 1985 stock Vette with 100, 125, 150, 175
and 200 horsepower and I never any issues.
and 200 horsepower and I never any issues.
Originally Posted by LT-4 CE
...both told me I could put 150 hp in ANYTHING as long as all of the items
Nitrous Sam mentioned are addressed. If you have forged internals, I
believe is 200 is a no brainer - again, if your ignition is working well, and
you have your fuel system sorted
Nitrous Sam mentioned are addressed. If you have forged internals, I
believe is 200 is a no brainer - again, if your ignition is working well, and
you have your fuel system sorted
Originally Posted by Magazine
When we hit the button our 200hp shot leaned on the Mouse motor
to crank out a trouble-free 587 lb-ft of torque at 4,600 rpm and 521 hp
at 4,900 rpm.
to crank out a trouble-free 587 lb-ft of torque at 4,600 rpm and 521 hp
at 4,900 rpm.
on stock parts if applied properly? The conclusions in the article don't
seem to me to differ much from what NitrousSam or your advisors
recommend.
I was only offering the article and my take on the use of nitrous as
additional information to consider. Sorry if anyone read my comments
as a recommendation, I had aimed to be clear about my lack of first
hand experience but must not have been successful.
.