Steel Breeze

Man! you guy's are going to have to explain this torque thing to the diesel boy's. I see trucks coming out of the mill here, and there tugging 30 tons of wall board. When they stop, then put it in gear, and take off, just about spins the truck on it's top (Now that's HP ). Pull the guy off the D10-L Cat, and explain it to him. Hey buddy, horse power is whats pushing that giant bolder, while at the same time, digging 4 8' trenches (Now that is horse power ). You may be a redneck if you are?????? Here's Your Sign... Enjoy...

sxyvet

hi again guys,
thanks for all your posts!
well i am either going to buy accel "super ram" kit complete or tpis "mini ram" set up!
they seem to be the go after all this as far as good options to go for!
thanks for all your help/time guys!
cheers
glen
sxyvet
Australia

CentralCoaster

Any engine that makes its power at lower RPM is going to have higher torque values.




Picture yourself on a 10 speed bike. You're in 10th gear, pedaling uphill. You're killing yourself trying to get the bike going, gasping and grunting.

The smart guy in the bike lane next to you is in 2nd gear, and spinning away at the pedals, and keeping up with you. While sipping a margarita.

You're putting down way more torque. But you're both going the same speed, because you're both putting down the same amount of power.

Now, you get to the top of the hill and take a breather. The guy next to you laughs and keeps on going. You yell out to him "You better show me some respect, I'm a torquemonster dammit!"

Aardwolf

But, his huge torque thighs would rub and create electricity with the hair, so he could zap him to a crisp!

raisinbran

Torque tells you everything about how fast the car is! A car will accelerate at the EXACT rate as the torque curve of the engine. At the peak torque, the car is accelerating at its fastest rate (not to be confused with velosity.) Generally you dont figure torque from horsepower....you figure hp from torque.

Why does an LT1 beat an L98 in the 1/4 (assuming they both have 340 peak torque)?? Because the LT1 has a flatter torque curve with the peak occuring later in the power band. This allows the LT1 to take advantage of gearing...whereas the L98 has to shift earlier, and thus suffers torque manipulation. hp is really a redundant measurement that loosely shows the tq curve charateristics....since it is all based of the torque to begin with.

comp

torque is crap we all need 2000cc turbo motors at 30psi boost

hippy

...and those trucks are all done pulling by 2100 rpms. Sure they make 400hp and 1000 lb ft tq but at 2100, I really don't think they are going to win a lot of races. Do you?
I forget again, I guess the L98 is a real tq monster. Even though my mini car beat my L98 car to 60' at the track I guess the L98 is still the king of tq. (Powers on) yea baby yea (Powers off)

CentralCoaster

No. The car will accelerate at the EXACT rate as the torque at the rear wheels after gear multiplication. That is, the torque at the rear tires will drop tremendously as you upshift. As you said, the car that can make the same torque through higher rpms (IE: more power) will win because it doesn't have to shift as much.

A car with constant power will not accelerate at a constant rate. It takes more power to go from 90-100 than from 50-60.


Anyhow, take your torque curve and experiment with shift points. Try to maximize the area under the curve. Guess what the area under the curve is? It's Torque x RPM. Gee, you just calculated power again! The car with the most power between shift points will win, all else being equal, and ignoring torque, since it doesn't matter.

mseven

If moving boulders and digging trenches is the goal, then one should build his car accordingly. If that is what I wanted I'd buy a tractor.
Take that engineering masterpiece off, put on a SR or Mini and see just how much you miss that TPI.

Steel Breeze

Point made, Point taken Just trying to represent the value of TQ. I would believe torque to be valuable off the line...

Razor89

I think everyone knows that there many better choices of intakes out there but!

1. check my dyno. 380 lbs of TQ at 3,800 rpm and I'm still making more than 340 at the 4,500 rpm.

2. HP peaks at 300 at 4,600-4,700 rpm.

3. Nice dependable 13.0 sec. car.

Now, if I would have stuck a Mini ram on my stock 350ci with all the same mods I would have lost as much TQ as I would have gained in HP. The big difference would be how high I would have to rev my 85,000 mile block to achieve the same goals of a high12 second car.

I have freinds that have tried this and they had to rebuild their motor the next year because they reved their motor to high.

I have no imediate plans to change to 3.73 gears and to move up to a rebuilt 383 ci stroker. This is why I chose to stay with the TPI so I could drive the car for a few more years. (hopefuly)

I'm starting to save money now so I can possibly build a high reving motor but for some of us we have other obligations that require a tighter budjet.

I'm sure that I will have no problems selling my POS intake setup to someone else when the time comes.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that, I have raced heads up at the track with my POS and have won many rounds against LT1's,LT4's and few LS1 vette's and Camaros/Firebirds and even a LS2 GTO. Yes I have have lost a few rounds to the same type of cars too.
Not bad for a POS TPI car.

Please don't discourage people from some of the options that they have to improve on the performace of their cars.

comp

hippy

I ran a FPOS intake for a few years so I do believe I can speak my piece. If you wanna run an intake that is like a 2 pack smoker above 5000 rpms, go ahead. Personally I don't think 13 second cars all are that spectacular anymore when Neons are doing it.
I'd have to see your dyno in order to check it. I have a few dyno runs myself with the FPOS intake.

Razor89

Check out my sig. Its all there.

You claim to have 340+ hp and about the same TQ. I'd say that we are pretty close in a heads up race.

How about you show your Dyno and your time slip showing your 12.5 second car. Take the 4sale sign off of it and bring it to the Muscle car race Sept. 24th at Rock Falls WI and let's see what you've got. You still live in WI right?

Don't be afraid of the POS TPI that runs out breath at 5k. Your should be able to beat me by a couple of car lengths. I love a good race, even if I loose.

I'm not tying to be a smart **** here, just stickin up for the tpi guys.

I think you should start picking on the Carb guys that are still in the Old School.

cv67

Hippy might just call your bluff, and his car "runs". Hes a for real guy, not an internet racer.

Marine_Marauder

[I have to respectfully disagree. The TPI is a torque monster, and that is what you feel in the seat of your pants. That TQ makes for a great street car. I am going to run the as&m runners, ported plenum, and bigger manifold for my intake. I should have the heads ported as well. Then get to the exhaust. The TPI motor just wants to breath, and when it does, it'll make the TQ you are looking for. Horsepower I have learned is not all there is. It is the torque of the TPI engine that makes it shine... [/QUOTE]

Amen Brother, you see my mods below.
I didn't seem to lose any torque, It just breathes all the way to 6000rpm
Thinking about TPIS headers, (Gotta stay legal here in Cali) not sure if it's worth the money though.

88BlackZ-51

Hippy vs Razor89.

Do it!


BTW Razor your car looks really nice! 300rwhp/380rwtq with those long tube runners isnt bad either. Thats around 350chp/450tq at the crank give or take. Thats some nice tq bud! If you can hook it up. Hippy will have a race on his hands, but then again he is an auto. Auto doesnt take near as much skill.

Razor89

No bluffing here. If he can run a 12.5 with his car he should win by a couple of car lengths. His automatic should give him an advantage because he would be less likely to miss a shift like I tend to do sometimes.

Sorry if it sounded like a hostile calling out, I think the race would be a very good example of the two different setups. I have raced a very similar setups before and lost by just 20 feet.

Come on out and race with guys that are going on the 24th.

hippy

I've raced both setups myself, POS and Mini, I had a 13.1 sec POS car, this car would destroy it.

P.S. You want me to drive clear across the state to prove to you what I have, I don't think so Tim.

Razor89

Win Maybe
Destroy I don't think so

P.S. I was willing to drive over to cheese land. Time slip and Dyno would be enough. Post it on Central Coaster time slip thread.