Tom 35th anniversary

If you ported the stock intake, replaced the runners, and base with the higher flowing units, how close would it flow to the superram setup? Would the horsepower/torque gains be similar. Just thinking.......

vader86

Nope, wont come near a SR.

tjwong

Not even close to the ball park

Aardwolf

232 vs 240 isn't that far off.

ACCEL......232.53 cfm

Super Ram.....240.24 cfm

Flow Numbers for the bases/runners

Flow Numbers
CFM------Brand
203 Stock runners only
242 Accel runners
199 Stock base
232 Accel base
216 Accel base/stock runners
232 Accel base/Accel runners
243 Accel base, extrude hone Accel runners
181 Stock base, runners
211 Stock base

You want to size you manifold to be roughly 15% more flow than the runners.

Intake..... runner length .... port in...... out
Stock GM Base----- 6.375"------------- 1.47"------- 1.96x1.20
TPIS base------------6.125"------------- 1.75"------- 2.09x1.28
Accel base-----------6.125"------------- 1.75"---------2.09x1.28
Holley base--------- 6.000" ------------ 2.30”-------- 1.90x1.23 (2.337 sq
inches)

Runners
Stock TPI-------- 7.250"------1.470" round(1.70 sq inches)
SLP -------------- 6.625"------1.600" round (2.01 sq inches)
Accel LTR------- 6.625"------1.615" round (2.05 sq inches)
TPiS-------------- 7.625"------1.660" round (2.168 sq inches)
Mini ram --------3.500”
stock MRII with 1204 (AFR 195) ports, 58MM - 265 cfm
stock MRII with 1206 (AFR 220) ports, 58MM - 281 cfm
MRII clean-up, 1206 ports, 58MM - 292 cfm
MRII cut, weld, port, etc, 58MM - 321 cfm
LT1 ----------3.000”

Runners (measured individually)
Stock....203.17 cfm
ACCEL....242.02 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL...275.83 cfm
Super Ram....289.18 cfm
Intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused inlet .....222.45 cfm
Holley stealth ram .......275.00 cfm


Stock intake manifold with runner
Stock.....198.72 cfm
ACCEL.....213.52 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL.....217.11 cfm
Super Ram......220.67 cfm

Holley stealth ram ....275.00 cfm
ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused inlet....251.51 cfm

ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with runner Stock......215.83 cfm
ACCEL......232.53 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL.........243.21 cfm
Super Ram.....240.24 cfm

Extrude-Honed ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused
inlet....275.83 cfm
Extrude-Honed ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with ACCEL runner....266.94 cfm

Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold (Stock).....286.51 cfm
Edelbrock Victor Jr.......275.24 cfm

Note 1: don't ask about the figures from me, they are not measured by me.
Note 2: TPIS runners = ASM LT runners

Stock TPI 7.250 1.470 round
Lingenfelter/Accel 6.625 1.615 round
SLP cast runners 6.625 1.600 round
TPIS large tube 7.625 1.660 round
TPIS siamese large tube 7.625 1.660 round
Lingenfelter/Accel Super Ram* 4.125 1.870x1.970 "D" shape
TPIS Mini Ram 3.500 2.600x1.350 entry
1.960x1.200 exit
Stock TPI Manifold base 6.375 1.470 round entry
1.960x1.200 exit
TPIS Big Mouth base 6.125 1.750 round entry
2.090x1.280 exit
Lingenfelter/Accel 6.125 1.750 round entry
Super Ram base 2.090x1.280 exit
* Runners only

The Edelbrock and TPIS TPI intake base are both made by Edelbrock. TPIS does go
one step further and port matches all the entries and exits on the manifold and
the others do not. Accel makes their own TPI intake base.

Vic'89

The aftermarket TPI would be a torque MONSTER.

I ran this setup with the stock Cam and stock Heads for about 4 years and it was a real Torquey setup.

Vic

bjankuski

The air flow numbers do not tell the whole story. The superram has shorter length runners that will shift the power band up by about 1000 RPM which will increase the amount of power that can be produced with the same amount of air flow. The Superram will make more power.

Kool88vette

I think it would depend on a lot of factors. The stock plenum was made to go on a 305 and is restictive. I understand that you can port a stock plenum and add Arizona Speed's runners and gain 35 HP. So if your running a stock or near stock setup the gains might be about the same for less money. A Super Ram on a stock engine is probably overkill. Then you have to consider future mods. If your planning on a cam, heads and other mods for high output HP I would get the Super Ram.

Aardwolf

Yes, I know about the power band, I was answering the OP about flow.

Kool88vette

I also noticed that the stock GM base flows almost as well as all the aftermakets. No real difference. The restriction is in the plenum, MAF, Throttle body and better runners are needed to gain more HP. I think for a street machine this setup would be good with a ported plenum you would still have good torque and increase HP. I would get a 52mm TB and descreen the MAF. It would be cheap, easy and look stock.
Check out this C4 and the ported plenum with Arizona Speed's runners. This car was setup to flow at just 220 CFM and still turns mid 12s.
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/joe90/index8.shtml

mike43725

if you port the stock tpi and port the heads and use a mild cam there will not be much of a difference in the hp numbers between super ram and tpi on a 350 sb.

bjankuski

I do not really agree with this statement, I was running a 355, 10.2 to 1 compression, 195 TFS heads, ZZ-9 cam (mild cam), Headers, Arizona Speed and Marine large tube runners, 52mm throttle body, ported plenium, and TPIS base and this combination put down 276 RWHP and 350 RWTQ and ran 12.70 at 106 MPH in the 1/4. I then changed to the Superram and made no other changes and the car put down 309 RWHP and 382 RWTQ and ran 12.36 at 111 MPH. To me that was a huge change with the addition of the superram.

Caboboy

So following this logic; if you port the heads, use a mild cam and put on a Superram what would happen? I'd be listening pretty closely to Tom Wong........he does this stuff for a living while the rest of us are merely enthusiasts

vader86

Wrong. Apparently I have to put up a tutorial just to teach people how to read the CFM numbers from my page that Aardwolf posted.

The base flow is pitiful compared to the aftermarkets, but its the combo of stock runners and base that really kills flow (neglecting the runner length).

Kool88vette

Your right Vader. I rechecked my post and the stock base does not flow as well as the after markets. I was thinking a ported stock base flows almost as well as after market but that's not what I wrote.

Kool88vette

I think the poster is interested in building a street machine and is not concerned about 1/4 mile ETs. Here's another link that compares intakes and another c4 turning low 12s with a ported plenum. http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/vad...y.htmlcompares

Tom 35th anniversary

Yes I am building a car for the street. I asked this because I am looking at all options to save money.....I'm such a tight *** when it comes to money!!! But it looks like i will have to break open the piggy bank and just do it!!!

Aardwolf

What HP or track time is your goal? The TPI may still meet it and their cost used is low, plus you can sell the stocker.

sweetsoul

did anyone think of that? a mini ram? i looked on the tpis site,and it says it is worth 75 hp.all the post i have read i have really been leaning toward it.my car is currently in the shop getting 1.7 roller rockers , bigger valve and full port/polish.even the stock tpi . all i could afford right now. but my next step is the crappy intake. i think the mini ram is what i want.he is supposed to get me before and after chassis dyno results. i will be happy with after.when i get the results of the miniram i guess i will know the truth.

BadSS

There are definite flow issues with the stock based TPIs as you start bolting the system together, but the midrange boost from the long runners can compensate for those issues in many applications.

Here's a good link discussing an intake shootout done a while back in Super Rod magazine on a 383. It'll give you an idea of the power difference in the intakes and a couple posts down what the differences in power could mean as far as estimated ET and mph is concerned.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tp...feb-super.html

mseven

that works....but don't be surprised if you don't see a 75 hp by just swapping intakes.