Elliot's Portworks heads question
02-27-2007, 02:22 PM
#1
Instructor
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Elliot's Portworks heads question
Does anyone know what type of numbers people are getting with his LT1-LE1 package? I am thinking about getting that head/cam combo and was wondering if its worth while.
http://www.eportworks.com/lt1.html
http://www.eportworks.com/lt1.html
02-27-2007, 03:04 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Does anyone know what type of numbers people are getting with his LT1-LE1 package? I am thinking about getting that head/cam combo and was wondering if its worth while.
http://www.eportworks.com/lt1.html
http://www.eportworks.com/lt1.html
Do a search over on CZ28.
02-27-2007, 03:30 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
02-27-2007, 06:50 PM
#4
Instructor
There is a man on the ImpalaSSForum that I know. His forum name "Handyman" 96 Caprice 355 ci. has Loyd Elliot LE2 ported heads and one of Loyd's custom cams. 410 rwhp. car has run 11.84 over 113 mph. 1.59 60 ft.
02-27-2007, 10:11 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
Another +1 for LE.
If all you ever did was cruise the corvette forum, you'd think 400 RWHP out of a stock bottom end LT1 was impossible. The Camaro crowd has always made more power than the vette crowd for some reason, so it makes sense to use that resource if you're looking for horse power. LE is pretty well known on the F-body side of the house because he makes a great product at a great price; the heads probably make more power per dollar than any other head out there.
www.cz28.com is a great LT1 site. Just lurk there for a few weeks and you'll see what I am talking about; even though the engines are virtually identical, the vette crowd just doesn't seem to produce the power the camaro/firebird guys do.
If all you ever did was cruise the corvette forum, you'd think 400 RWHP out of a stock bottom end LT1 was impossible. The Camaro crowd has always made more power than the vette crowd for some reason, so it makes sense to use that resource if you're looking for horse power. LE is pretty well known on the F-body side of the house because he makes a great product at a great price; the heads probably make more power per dollar than any other head out there.
www.cz28.com is a great LT1 site. Just lurk there for a few weeks and you'll see what I am talking about; even though the engines are virtually identical, the vette crowd just doesn't seem to produce the power the camaro/firebird guys do.
Last edited by neat; 02-27-2007 at 10:15 PM.
02-27-2007, 10:17 PM
#8
Drifting
Another +1 for LE.
If all you ever did was cruise the corvette forum, you'd think 400 RWHP out of a stock bottom end LT1 was impossible. The Camaro crowd has always made more power than the vette crowd for some reason, so it makes sense to use that resource if you're looking for horse power. LE is pretty well known on the F-body side of the house because he makes a great product at a great price; the heads probably make more power per dollar than any other head out there.
www.cz28.com is a great LT1 site. Just lurk there for a few weeks and you'll see what I am talking about; even though the engines are virtually identical, the vette crowd just doesn't seem to produce the power the camaro/firebird guys do.
If all you ever did was cruise the corvette forum, you'd think 400 RWHP out of a stock bottom end LT1 was impossible. The Camaro crowd has always made more power than the vette crowd for some reason, so it makes sense to use that resource if you're looking for horse power. LE is pretty well known on the F-body side of the house because he makes a great product at a great price; the heads probably make more power per dollar than any other head out there.
www.cz28.com is a great LT1 site. Just lurk there for a few weeks and you'll see what I am talking about; even though the engines are virtually identical, the vette crowd just doesn't seem to produce the power the camaro/firebird guys do.
I think it's just a different approach between the forums.
I'm going with my friend to pick up a Trans Am this weekend, and he has done a lot of research, including talking to Lloyd. From everybody else and my friend's impression this guy does great work.
02-27-2007, 11:18 PM
#9
Does anyone know what type of numbers people are getting with his LT1-LE1 package? I am thinking about getting that head/cam combo and was wondering if its worth while.
http://www.eportworks.com/lt1.html
http://www.eportworks.com/lt1.html
02-27-2007, 11:27 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
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No doubt. You'd also think an XE 230/236 is on the ragged-edge of streetability!
The Camaro crowd has always made more power than the vette crowd for some reason...
In any case, those LEx packages pull down some pretty impressive numbers for the $ involved, and I've never heard anything negative about Lloyd. As others have said, dig through the LTx forum at camaroz28.com, and you'll find plenty of real-world numbers.
02-27-2007, 11:32 PM
#11
Another +1 for LE.
If all you ever did was cruise the corvette forum, you'd think 400 RWHP out of a stock bottom end LT1 was impossible. The Camaro crowd has always made more power than the vette crowd for some reason, so it makes sense to use that resource if you're looking for horse power. LE is pretty well known on the F-body side of the house because he makes a great product at a great price; the heads probably make more power per dollar than any other head out there.
www.cz28.com is a great LT1 site. Just lurk there for a few weeks and you'll see what I am talking about; even though the engines are virtually identical, the vette crowd just doesn't seem to produce the power the camaro/firebird guys do.
If all you ever did was cruise the corvette forum, you'd think 400 RWHP out of a stock bottom end LT1 was impossible. The Camaro crowd has always made more power than the vette crowd for some reason, so it makes sense to use that resource if you're looking for horse power. LE is pretty well known on the F-body side of the house because he makes a great product at a great price; the heads probably make more power per dollar than any other head out there.
www.cz28.com is a great LT1 site. Just lurk there for a few weeks and you'll see what I am talking about; even though the engines are virtually identical, the vette crowd just doesn't seem to produce the power the camaro/firebird guys do.
mostly. LE is not the incredible bang for the buck that he was a few years ago. His prices have steadily moved upward, and AI has lowered theirs to compete, so the two are in the same ballpark the last time I looked.
02-27-2007, 11:36 PM
#12
I think it's just a different approach between the forums.
02-28-2007, 07:02 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
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No doubt. You'd also think an XE 230/236 is on the ragged-edge of streetability!Well, the IRS doesn't help us in that regard. The Camaro crowd is also pretty willing to make sacrifices (driveability, reliability, fuel economy, etc.) for those numbers.
In any case, those LEx packages pull down some pretty impressive numbers for the $ involved, and I've never heard anything negative about Lloyd. As others have said, dig through the LTx forum at camaroz28.com, and you'll find plenty of real-world numbers.
02-28-2007, 09:42 AM
#14
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Show me some actual flow sheets or first hand dyno sheets and you can make a believer out of me regarding the statement above. I've not seen the new AFR heads so it's not fair for me to commemt, but the prior "as cast" heads from AFR should really be called: "Ready for porting". Anyone whom just bolted on their non-CNC heads really didn't get it!!!
If you have something objective that you can share that does not come from AFR or off their web site, it would be very worthwhile to post for the rest of us. My mind can be easily changed but you need first hand empirical evidence to do so. Not marketing material.
Right now with a 350ci block porting stock castings is by far the best value unquestionably. If you're going for a big stroker motor to get the true potential, you need a head with more material in it to get a larger cross section to go the the extra ci.
Ain't nothing wrong with porting stock castings on stock blocks and in fact........the best choice.
If you have something objective that you can share that does not come from AFR or off their web site, it would be very worthwhile to post for the rest of us. My mind can be easily changed but you need first hand empirical evidence to do so. Not marketing material.
Right now with a 350ci block porting stock castings is by far the best value unquestionably. If you're going for a big stroker motor to get the true potential, you need a head with more material in it to get a larger cross section to go the the extra ci.
Ain't nothing wrong with porting stock castings on stock blocks and in fact........the best choice.
02-28-2007, 09:46 AM
#15
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Like anything you need to read the material and make your own judgements after, not before.
02-28-2007, 09:55 AM
#16
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My personal experience is once you sort out the 16 year olds, the F-body list is technically superior to this list. Especially their advanced section in which a few real SAE people post. Highly recommended and not something to stick you nose up in the air to. I learn from them all the time.
Like anything you need to read the material and make your own judgements after, not before.
Like anything you need to read the material and make your own judgements after, not before.
I agree, I learned alot there prior to building my 96 WS6 TA. In then end I put a CC306 in there, and it was perfectly streetable when combo was complete and made great power. Of course I learned enough to put in 4.10's in the rear and build the combo around my plan.
There is enough info there to really learn alot. I love the forums, for that reason.
Right now I mostly come here, just b/c it's my main interest and in needing to learn more on the C4 and the proposed LSx swap I'm considering. In any event, I've seen near stock LT-1 whip the hinnie off of a similarly moded C4 at my local track. Heck I beat a ZR-1 in the 1/4 with a bolt on 5.0 mustang. Doesn't mean the ZR-1 sucked(was a beautiful car), in fact given another 25ft he woulda chewed me up. But discounting a driver or car just b/c of their ride is a quick way to lose.
also agree about the AFR's. Gotta port them to make the power. As cast, I wouldn't run them. Would they be better than GM cast, sure!
Compared to ported LT-1 castsings by LE, I'd take the LE ported. I know at least from my experiences with him, he takes great pride in his work, and really works hard to find the shapes in the ports he likes for all lift numbers not just .600 like some porters.
If I do my LSx swap, he'll be porting my heads. Heck I learned alot just talking via email to him, that he actually prefers the LS1 castings vs the LS6 and what kind of cam I'll be looking at etc... His knowledge is invalauable in many respects to me.
I've also had great experiences with Patriot heads in my LSx modding, but that's a whole different route. Mass market cnc port versus custom setup. I'm wanting more custom this time, so Lloyd will get my business. I wouldn't hesistate to go with Patriot again though, it's just I want a little more hand holding on this project
thx
John
02-28-2007, 10:21 AM
#17
Racer
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I agree, I learned alot there prior to building my 96 WS6 TA. In then end I put a CC306 in there, and it was perfectly streetable when combo was complete and made great power. Of course I learned enough to put in 4.10's in the rear and build the combo around my plan.
There is enough info there to really learn alot. I love the forums, for that reason.
Right now I mostly come here, just b/c it's my main interest and in needing to learn more on the C4 and the proposed LSx swap I'm considering. In any event, I've seen near stock LT-1 whip the hinnie off of a similarly moded C4 at my local track. Heck I beat a ZR-1 in the 1/4 with a bolt on 5.0 mustang. Doesn't mean the ZR-1 sucked(was a beautiful car), in fact given another 25ft he woulda chewed me up. But discounting a driver or car just b/c of their ride is a quick way to lose.
also agree about the AFR's. Gotta port them to make the power. As cast, I wouldn't run them. Would they be better than GM cast, sure!
Compared to ported LT-1 castsings by LE, I'd take the LE ported. I know at least from my experiences with him, he takes great pride in his work, and really works hard to find the shapes in the ports he likes for all lift numbers not just .600 like some porters.
If I do my LSx swap, he'll be porting my heads. Heck I learned alot just talking via email to him, that he actually prefers the LS1 castings vs the LS6 and what kind of cam I'll be looking at etc... His knowledge is invalauable in many respects to me.
I've also had great experiences with Patriot heads in my LSx modding, but that's a whole different route. Mass market cnc port versus custom setup. I'm wanting more custom this time, so Lloyd will get my business. I wouldn't hesistate to go with Patriot again though, it's just I want a little more hand holding on this project
thx
John
There is enough info there to really learn alot. I love the forums, for that reason.
Right now I mostly come here, just b/c it's my main interest and in needing to learn more on the C4 and the proposed LSx swap I'm considering. In any event, I've seen near stock LT-1 whip the hinnie off of a similarly moded C4 at my local track. Heck I beat a ZR-1 in the 1/4 with a bolt on 5.0 mustang. Doesn't mean the ZR-1 sucked(was a beautiful car), in fact given another 25ft he woulda chewed me up. But discounting a driver or car just b/c of their ride is a quick way to lose.
also agree about the AFR's. Gotta port them to make the power. As cast, I wouldn't run them. Would they be better than GM cast, sure!
Compared to ported LT-1 castsings by LE, I'd take the LE ported. I know at least from my experiences with him, he takes great pride in his work, and really works hard to find the shapes in the ports he likes for all lift numbers not just .600 like some porters.
If I do my LSx swap, he'll be porting my heads. Heck I learned alot just talking via email to him, that he actually prefers the LS1 castings vs the LS6 and what kind of cam I'll be looking at etc... His knowledge is invalauable in many respects to me.
I've also had great experiences with Patriot heads in my LSx modding, but that's a whole different route. Mass market cnc port versus custom setup. I'm wanting more custom this time, so Lloyd will get my business. I wouldn't hesistate to go with Patriot again though, it's just I want a little more hand holding on this project
thx
John
Like you I started with a 97 SS with 306 cam and 4:10 gears. Great combo regardless of what others think.
This should also make you feel better.........One of the guys in Lloyds shop put a LSx in his Mustang. A LSx in a C4 would be killer!! Much easier to make power and GM is better their future on the LSx design including having Warran Johnson help design a new LSx racing block.
Lloyd is one of the nicest, most honest people you ever meet. He puts his heart and sole into what he does and will openly tell ya, he learns something new every day.
02-28-2007, 10:25 AM
#18
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John
Like you I started with a 97 SS with 306 cam and 4:10 gears. Great combo regardless of what others think.
This should also make you feel better.........One of the guys in Lloyds shop put a LSx in his Mustang. A LSx in a C4 would be killer!! Much easier to make power and GM is better their future on the LSx design including having Warran Johnson help design a new LSx racing block.
Lloyd is one of the nicest, most honest people you ever meet. He puts his heart and sole into what he does and will openly tell ya, he learns something new every day.
Like you I started with a 97 SS with 306 cam and 4:10 gears. Great combo regardless of what others think.
This should also make you feel better.........One of the guys in Lloyds shop put a LSx in his Mustang. A LSx in a C4 would be killer!! Much easier to make power and GM is better their future on the LSx design including having Warran Johnson help design a new LSx racing block.
Lloyd is one of the nicest, most honest people you ever meet. He puts his heart and sole into what he does and will openly tell ya, he learns something new every day.
.Not saying there are not as good or even better porters out there, but I don't think your going to find one who takes time to explain as much as Lloyd will, OR offer you the bang for the buck that he will as well
02-28-2007, 10:34 AM
#19
The other thing about that place is that it is well moderated, and the LTx forum is just for engine posts, so there is a lot less crap to wade through.
02-28-2007, 12:13 PM
#20
Show me some actual flow sheets or first hand dyno sheets and you can make a believer out of me regarding the statement above. I've not seen the new AFR heads so it's not fair for me to commemt, but the prior "as cast" heads from AFR should really be called: "Ready for porting". Anyone whom just bolted on their non-CNC heads really didn't get it!!!
If you have something objective that you can share that does not come from AFR or off their web site, it would be very worthwhile to post for the rest of us. My mind can be easily changed but you need first hand empirical evidence to do so. Not marketing material.
Right now with a 350ci block porting stock castings is by far the best value unquestionably. If you're going for a big stroker motor to get the true potential, you need a head with more material in it to get a larger cross section to go the the extra ci.
Ain't nothing wrong with porting stock castings on stock blocks and in fact........the best choice.
If you have something objective that you can share that does not come from AFR or off their web site, it would be very worthwhile to post for the rest of us. My mind can be easily changed but you need first hand empirical evidence to do so. Not marketing material.
Right now with a 350ci block porting stock castings is by far the best value unquestionably. If you're going for a big stroker motor to get the true potential, you need a head with more material in it to get a larger cross section to go the the extra ci.
Ain't nothing wrong with porting stock castings on stock blocks and in fact........the best choice.