Carl Johansson

Yup in the mean time i have my 86 out and running on road courses every week - an as an added bonus my 88 gets to run a Bonneville or elmirage every month.
I know exactly what my time is worth - I know exactly how much I get paid per hour - and for me - messing with a tranny swap didn't play out financially - I could use that time a whole lot better working at what I get paid to do. Those hours I put in at work more than make up the difference! If you calculate out hours spent - I saved a whole lot of money by doing a keisler swap - because I got paid for those hours I would have spent working on the tranny swap! I admit for most people that is not the case, but in my case I am able to get consulting gigs that pay significant hourly rates - and it turns out - for whatever reason, people are willing to pay for my expertise! So me getting bogged down in a project that eats up time costs me real money!

Hows your garage coming? If you ever need help from someone who has actually built their own house - from top to bottom - let me know - oh yah - I forgot - you know it all - I don't know what the hell I'm doing - thats why I throw money at a problem!

It seems to me you spend an inordinate amount of time, inginuity, and elbow grease to save a small amount of money - but thats only my opinion. I'd rather solve the problem - finish the project in a timely manner and move on to my next project!

Carl "solved the tranny 2 years ago - built another vette, now I'm working on a porche - hows your tranny issues working out? " Johansson

JLeatherman

Guys, if the bickering and insults continue this thread will get locked and we'll lose a valuable resource for those who want to complete this swap.

Carl, you've made your point and this is getting a bit ridiculous. Congrats to you for being a satisfied Keisler customer. We all know they make a good trans and it fits into the C4. That's not what this thread is about. This is about doing something different. If you don't have any input for this thread, besides "why are you wasting valuable time instead of wasting valuable money" feel free to post, otherwise start your own thread for touting the virtues of the Keisler kit.

I thank Joe and the rest of the serious contributors, because I for one enjoy modifying my car and I need a new trans, so this thread combines both of those. I hope ProStreet gets that part out to you ASAP so we can all start buying one. I had talked to them about a T56 swap about a year ago, and it ended up being too expensive to get a donor so I gave up on the idea. BTW, did you ask them about doing a modified shifter to include as part of the kit? I can bend/weld it myself, I was just curious for those without the tools.

Also, how is everyone covering the hole in the tunnel left by removing the 4+3 shifter?

JLeatherman

As for clutches, I am running a RAM 10.5" PP and disc after talking with LD85. It's a 3200# PP and an organic disc. Haven't gotten it too far yet, but pedal feel is pretty good and LD85 says it holds real well. I'm glad I can keep my existing RAM clutch, billet/dynamically balanced flywheel, and stock clutch slave.

Nitrofish86

I noticed Pro-street's website is showing the T-5 C-beam adapter. G-force's T-5 hop up kit makes a WC T-5 able to handle 600hp/500ft.lbs. If the first T-5 craps out I'll be doing that upgrade. IMO it's a crapshoot with T-5's from what I've personally seen. I know the good ones are rated for around 320 ft.lbs, but I've seen near stock 302's blow them apart. On that same note, my good friend has been running a 4cyl T-5 behind a blown 347 stroker for over a year now mostly drag duty on ET streets. I'm not counting on this kind of performance. I'm interested in this because it weighs half of what a T56 weighs, it's a super easy swap, and there are parts available to beef it up drastically if needed. To me it's a win/win situation

VtVette

Good info Nirtofish. One thing I've found from researching thridgen.org is the case of the T5 itself can be a weak link. Apparently they are prone to cracking in certain spots with severe abuse. As you said it's a crap shoot some live happily behind 400+hp engines and some have died a quick death behind 302's/305's. I'm researching the case failure issues further and will post my findings once I feel I've found conclusive data.

I still believe this may be the way to go especially with a stock/mildly modified C4. For a drag car I would look towards a T56, TKO or a ZF.

JLeatherman

BTW, for the debates on the price of the Keisler kit (they no longer post a price on their website) the cost for the direct fit kit for a car that already has a 4+3 is well over $3000 shipped to my house (I got a quote from Keisler). I don't know how Carl managed to do the TKO swap for $2200. I found 2 World Class T5s within driving distance for under $300.

ixlor8

KEISLER 5-SPEED

550HP/550FT-LB 5-SPEED TRANSMISSION ASSEMBLY

KEISLER CUSTOM BUILT TKO-500 WITH LOW PROFILE INTERNAL OFFSET SHIFTER,


$3,460.00 that includes shipping charges.

Quoted 10/08/2007

You can replace the T-5 Swap many times for the price of the KEISLER 5-SPEED. If you have 550 HP/550FT - you are very lucky, and likely to have the money to invest into this transmission.

For us that have a stock C4's. I can not see spending $3500. The low cost T-5 swap is very exciting possible option for us.

VtVette

I spent quite a bit of time last night on thirdgen.org. Opinions are all over the map regarding the T5. Some have been drag racing with them behind 350+ hp motors with no issues for a year or more, some say they destroy them behind 305's in short order. Those who have experienced transmission failure do admit that they are not easy on them, and will often power shift, side step the clutch on launch, etc.

From all the research I've found it appears the killer of these transmissions is power shifting (shifting without the clutch) particularly into third gear and side stepping the clutch (revving up the engine and releasing the clutch suddenly as in a drag race) which can crack the case of the transmission. Those who avoid these actions seem to have very good luck with the transmissions even behind modified 350s.

anesthes

I started working on a writeup. I have to verify all the measurements, and make some corrections but it's a rough draft.

will add pictures soon.

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/f-car-t5/

-- Joe

VtVette

Again anesthes thanks again for this great post and spearheading the R&D on this swap

Nitrofish86

Great write up on this swap. Almost feels like I'm cheating getting all the answers like this

JLeatherman

Joe,
Does this mean you've actually completed the swap? Pics would be great, especially the shifter modifications. How's the driving feel of the T5? Anything else we need to know? I'm gonna start rounding up the pieces and make this another on my list of winter projects...

VtVette

Inquiring minds want to know! I'm going to start rounding up parts as well as soon as I hear Joe has successfully driven the car down the road and given it his stamp of approval.

86C4CONVERTIBLE4+3

Ditto. I am going to get myself a T-5 and have the beefy updates done by G-Force and have it standing by for when my 4+3 takes a dump.

anesthes

No No No. Just trial fitting things, and some experimentation. PLEASE do not follow the write up until I've 100% triple tested everything. It's just a starter, an outline.

Again, don't modify a THING until I say its DONE.

I'll probably get some pictures up this week. I spoke with Tom about the cbeam adapter, he's done but I wanted to make sure he had the exhaust hanger mount in the right spot. He informed me that due to the position of the T5 tailhousing, the cbeam adapter will bolt right in without having to grind/cut/modify ANYTHING. (unlike the T56 swap which requires redrilling of the cbeam). But I need to test fit it all, and take it over the highway to make sure the pinion angle was not altered.

Give me a few more days guys. I wasn't planning on finishing this thing in the fall, but based on interest I'm putting this ahead of my other projects so I will have it complete before the end of october, so I can road test it a few hundred miles prior to winter.

I've got the hurst shifter on my desk right now, and I did some measurements for the writeup. I need to do some in car testing to make sure
I'm having you guys mod it properly. A friend of mine who did a T5 swap did the shifter mod differently, but it makes the angle a little
strange. I'm thinking method #1 is gonna work best.

-- Joe

86C4CONVERTIBLE4+3

Take your time, and I for one appreciate it. My 4+3 works perfect right now after I removed the switch from the shifter, fixed the broken wires, and relocated it to the console. I gotta park my car soon before the snow hits and it won't see pavement again til around May anyway. Other things need to be done before the tranny. Heads need valve seals, but might as well put AFR's on it while apart, while intake is off might as well do headers, an LT-1 intake swap and on and on it goes!

anesthes

Hey what's this? Is this a prototype cbeam adapter??

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/f-car-t5/cbeam/

-- Joe

CentralCoaster

Cool. What happened to clocking the transmission? Did the bellhousing options prevent that? The shifter is really critical IMO. I've seen some swaps where they spent 99% of the time making it work and 1% of the time making the shifter feel good. But that's the part you touch every time you get behind the wheel, about 100 times per day.


Signed,

JLeatherman

You can only clock the tranny if you use the F-body bellhousing. Then you'd need a different adapter. Also, the shifter would stick straight up (I think) when the transmission is clocked. By bolting it in at 0 degrees at the front it angles the shifter which makes it easier to put a little bend in it and have it come up in the right spot.

anesthes

Clocking the t5 with a fbody bell housing would cause a few problems.

The exhaust wouldn't clear
The tailshaft would be where the cbeam is, making it almost
impossible (if not impossible) to make a cbeam adapter.

I talked to a bunch of folks who put T5's in cars that didn't have T5's to begin with. (jags, 2nd gen fbody's, c3's) and T56's in C4's. Everyone modified the shifter a different way, but nobody has reported any problems with the shifter.

I have learned however (after I bought an fbody shifter) that you can use an S10 shifter BASE with custom hurst stick which puts the **** in the right spot. The S10 base is straight up, and hurst makes sticks bent in all kinds of wacky ways.

Some of the T56 guys prefer to make a custom console cover, because they say "The stock location is too far over towards the driver". I dunno...

-- Joe