Go Back   Corvette Forum > C4 Corvettes, 1984 - 1996 > C4 Tech/Performance
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ Vendor Directory
Search
C4 Tech/Performance
L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine Sponsored by
J&D Corvette

Welcome to Corvetteforum.com!
Welcome to Corvetteforum.com.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join Corvetteforum.com today!


Corvette Store
 
 
C7 Parts & Accessories
C6 Parts & Accessories
C5 Parts & Accessories
C4 Parts & Accessories
C3 Parts & Accessories
C2 Parts & Accessories
C1 Parts & Accessories
Wheels & Tires
Sponsored Ads
 
 
Vendor Directory
  
Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-15-2007, 12:52 AM   #1
ZBRA
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
ZBRA's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Lafayette LA
Default Can the C4 ABS system be used as a stand alone system?

Vehicle: 1994 Corvette LT1 6-speed

Say you:

1) Removed the engine computer and harness and went DFI
2) Removed the body control computer
3) Removed the ASR

Can the ABS system then be wired and function properly as a stand alone system.

I know the ASR depends on the ABS sytem to function properly, but does the ABS system also depend on the ASR system?

Here is some information from the 1994 FSMs

Quote:
The EBTCM (electronic brake and traction control module) receives various inputs from the PCM/ECM, wheel speed sensors, and TP sensor module. It outputs information to various devices such as the PCM/ECM, BPM valve assembly and adjuster assembly.

The EBTCM determines when to activate the ASR system and how to do so for the particular situation requiring the ASR response.
Since I will still be using a factory PCM/ECM, I can give the EBTCM whatever PCM/ECM signals it needs.

Any help is appreciated.
ZBRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2007, 12:55 AM   #2
bogus
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Aug 2000
Location: San Pedro CA
Send a message via Yahoo to bogus
Default

wow... I don't think so.

if it was me, I would consider retro-fitting a 1989 ABS computer. That doesn't need any computer.
bogus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2007, 01:23 AM   #3
Vis Croceus
CF Senior Member
 
Vis Croceus's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Default

Try disconnecting the serial data line between the CCM and EBTCM and see if ABS still activates properly.
Vis Croceus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2007, 06:48 PM   #4
ZBRA
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
ZBRA's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Lafayette LA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogus View Post
if it was me, I would consider retro-fitting a 1989 ABS computer. That doesn't need any computer.
Hmmm. Not a bad idea. I wonder if I would only need the 1989 ABS computer or if I would need the 1989 ABS assembly.
ZBRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2007, 06:50 PM   #5
ZBRA
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
ZBRA's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Lafayette LA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vis Croceus View Post
Try disconnecting the serial data line between the CCM and EBTCM and see if ABS still activates properly.
Car isn't currently running. Engine is on a stand, and I'm rewiring everything before I put it back in. I'll be pulling the dash out and all of the under dash wiring in a week.

ZBRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2007, 09:24 PM   #6
ScaryFast
CF Senior Member
 
ScaryFast's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2001
Location: Detroit's West Side MI
Send a message via AIM to ScaryFast
Default

ZBRA, I've been trying to get my ABS running for two years since i removed the ARS and did the same conversion as you're doing. Funny how I keep popping up in your threads

I've had so little luck that I have put it on hold, but it's frustrating losing a few laps while I wait for tires and brakes to heat up and stop as designed. I got tired of flat-spotting $260 Hoosiers.

I have the EBCTM and the accellerometer that was originally located up under the dash intact, as well as all the ABS sensors (expect the one I cut off tonight to replace the rear knuckle). No dice. Not many here have tried to do this from what I could dig up.

Let's compare notes, here or via PM as I'd very much like to get it working again to brake as late in laps 1 and 2 as the f'ing Z06's I run against.

I started tracing every wire last month but I'm going out of town for two weeks so I won't be able to dig back into it until after Mid-Ohio July 14th. After that I have a month of downtime before the next event.
ScaryFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2007, 09:27 PM   #7
ScaryFast
CF Senior Member
 
ScaryFast's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2001
Location: Detroit's West Side MI
Send a message via AIM to ScaryFast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBRA View Post
Hmmm. Not a bad idea. I wonder if I would only need the 1989 ABS computer or if I would need the 1989 ABS assembly.
This seems like a good idea. Even if the hydraulics and EBTCM are different there are a number of cars being parted out over in the FS section that could supply them.

I have a friend that designs ABS for Bosch, and we've talked about using a Ford GT system as a retrofit. However, same as our cars it's tied into the whole vehicle and tuned specifically to that car's dynamics.
ScaryFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 01:03 AM   #8
ZBRA
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
ZBRA's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Lafayette LA
Default

ScaryFast, what year is your car?

I have some interchange information on the early C4 ABS parts:

ABS pump was the same from 1986-1991

ABS computer 14103343 was used from 1986-1989
ABS computer 10223326 was used from 1990-1991

I need to check the cross reference on the hub bearings to see if the ABS wheel sensors from 1989 are the same as 1994.

ASR became standard in 1992, but I don't know what year it was first available.

It looks like 1990 was the first year for a body control computer, so a 1986-1989 system will probably be the way to go if the 1994 system just will not work.

I have the FSMs for 1994. I can scan the wiring diagrams, but that doesn't really help in figuring out what is necessary and what isn't. It would also be helpful to have the diagram for the 1989 ABS computer to compare.
ZBRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 01:13 AM   #9
bogus
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Aug 2000
Location: San Pedro CA
Send a message via Yahoo to bogus
Default

the thing is, the ABS/ASR computer uses a GM spec data stream... so that is an issue.

ASR was standard in 1992, it's first year of availablity.
bogus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 11:20 AM   #10
ZBRA
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
ZBRA's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Lafayette LA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogus View Post
the thing is, the ABS/ASR computer uses a GM spec data stream... so that is an issue.
The DFI that I plan to use, uses a GM computer (16188051 94-95 F-Body) and could even use stock tuning. I'll also be using the stock wheel speed sensors and vehicle speed sensor. I don't see why I wouldn't be able to give the ABS computer the information that it is looking for.
ZBRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 11:59 AM   #11
ScaryFast
CF Senior Member
 
ScaryFast's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2001
Location: Detroit's West Side MI
Send a message via AIM to ScaryFast
Default

Mine's a 1993. I have successfully eliminated all computers except the ECM (Obviously) and the EBTCM, although it's not plugged in to anything right now. The hardest part is removing the CCM as everything is tied to it. Several new PROM attempts were made before the VATS, etc. were gone.

I have the FSM for my year, my guess is that it's the same for '93 and '94. I found that a few of the wires to the EBCTM were cut during my interior gutting, but I've since replaced them, as well as the accel. What I have NOT done yet is plug in a service tool and check what codes are active in the EBCTM. That might give me some additional insight.

ZBRA have you done this yet?
ScaryFast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 02:06 PM   #12
bogus
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Aug 2000
Location: San Pedro CA
Send a message via Yahoo to bogus
Default

what I don't know is if the data stream is modified by the CCM. What data does it need? How is it formatted?

another thought would be to retrofit an ABS from an F-body... but I don't know that systems programming, as far as how the vehicle works.

I am doing an LT1/4L60E conversion in bastet44's (my wifes) 87 Vette. The ABS is stand alone in that car, and to kill the serial data line, and eliminate a lot of codes, I had TJ Wong drop an F-body tune on the PCM. Problem solved (I hope, I will let you all know once it is running again).
bogus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 10:48 PM   #13
ZBRA
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
ZBRA's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Lafayette LA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogus View Post
I am doing an LT1/4L60E conversion in bastet44's (my wifes) 87 Vette. The ABS is stand alone in that car, and to kill the serial data line, and eliminate a lot of codes, I had TJ Wong drop an F-body tune on the PCM. Problem solved (I hope, I will let you all know once it is running again).
Please let me know what wiring you have to do to get the ABS working properly with your swap. What harness and ECM are you using with your swap?

ZBRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 09:04 AM   #14
Vis Croceus
CF Senior Member
 
Vis Croceus's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBRA View Post
The DFI that I plan to use, uses a GM computer (16188051 94-95 F-Body) and could even use stock tuning. I'll also be using the stock wheel speed sensors and vehicle speed sensor. I don't see why I wouldn't be able to give the ABS computer the information that it is looking for.

The FSM shows the EBTCM talking to the CCM not the PCM.
Vis Croceus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 10:38 AM   #15
ZBRA
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
ZBRA's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Lafayette LA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vis Croceus View Post
The FSM shows the EBTCM talking to the CCM not the PCM.
I'm removing the CCM along with all of the interior wiring not related to the ABS system.
ZBRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2007, 10:25 AM   #16
Vis Croceus
CF Senior Member
 
Vis Croceus's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBRA View Post
I'm removing the CCM along with all of the interior wiring not related to the ABS system.
Which is why I mentioned it...
Vis Croceus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2007, 01:50 PM   #17
-=Jeff=-
CF Senior Member
 
-=Jeff=-'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 1999
Location: Bartlett Illinois
Default

Not sure if this will help..

in my 89, I have the 89 EBCM (EBTCM has traction control)

I also have a 91 CCM and ECM in the same car. I get NO codes from the CCM since there is no Serial line from the 89 unit going to the CCM.
-=Jeff=- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2007, 01:50 PM
 
Go Back   Corvette Forum > C4 Corvettes, 1984 - 1996 > C4 Tech/Performance
Reload this Page Can the C4 ABS system be used as a stand alone system?
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
1994, abs, ars, body, bpm, c4, computer, corvette, delete, lt1, performance, stand, standalone, standaloneabs, system, valve, wiring


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Click for Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More '92 NO START 36Volt C4 Tech/Performance 50 10-16-2014 10:53 AM
FS: 99-01 Corvette PCM/ECM Computer MT0911 C5 Parts for Sale/Wanted 8 01-27-2014 05:12 PM
The "paperclip method" - it does more than you think, even on '96 cars! LouisvilleLT4 C4 Tech/Performance 59 10-16-2013 01:31 PM
ZR1 boost gauge in 2005 ??? Dragracer_Art C6 Tech/Performance 4 08-24-2013 08:30 PM
Fuel Gauge Bulletin Finally Released ZL-1 C6 Corvette General Discussion 28 06-18-2005 02:09 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:05 AM.


Emails & Password Backup