ZD1

I wanted to wait to post this until my builder had more AFR eliminator heads under his belt in terms of flow. But it seems that all of the AFR heads he has gotten are the same...down from flow. In one case the exhaust CNC program wasn't even the same port to port. One exh port had a definite ridge between the areas where the CNC program has its different intersects.

I have not seen brodix heads so I can not say the AFR heads are better or worse. Post flow the AFR seems to match advertised Brodix in intake flow, and excel in exhflow.

Intake (The flow values are the number from the current website minus the down number. Since these are from my notes when I was in Afghanistan). I have since had the chamber and exhaust ports coated.
227 cc comp eliminator heads
0.300" (199) down 15 CFM from advertised (this is the worst hit)
0.400" (246) down 9 CFM from advertised...L98 stock flow
0.500" (295) down 3 CFM from Adv ... beyond most aftermarket head
0.600" (309) down 6 CFM from Adv
0.700" (310) down 10 CFM from Adv (although not a huge problem, it shows the heads stalling at 0.6")

Overall the intake didn't live up to advertised numbers. For a CNC operation this should not be the case. Apparently the flow at 0.700" is more of a stall issue (flow is normally lift limited rather than flow limited). What really urked me was the low flow at 0.3", as a street car it means that the engine wil not be as efficient. The low flow probably was caused by some bad transitions in the port and the large combustion chamber (76cc vice 68cc) covering the valve.

The exhaust actually flowed as advertised, but with a .400" raised hieght it was deemed to flow well. The exhaust side is why I went with this head over competitors (Brodix).

It is a pretty good head, but it is unfortunate that AFR couldn't meet their adv numbers. Within 3% would be okay (0.6+" lift thus would be okay), but the 15 CFM/8% flow hit at .3" will really hurt HP.

Should I done it again I would've never bought a MR (for the 383) and purchased an 18x brodix head and just paid the $500 for the conversion of the intake, I would've been ahead. I also wouldv'e gotten a camshaft that matches the head (longer intake/shorter exhuast). Finally, I wouldn't have had to wait 60 days (they actually delivered when they said they would) for delivery.

88BlackZ-51

So what were the actually flow #'s?

mechguy79

Well, you probably just stirred up the hornet's nest now! There are some rabid AFR fans here.

I am glad you posted this though. I am not at the point of changing heads yet, but real numbers mean much more to me than reputation anyways.

Props for the guts to post this!

88BlackZ-51

But why not post the true #'s.

And yes there are alot of AFR fan's. I have a set of AFR's, but I am a HUGE brodix fan, but there was nothing in the brodix line that really compared for the price.

Timo

How much is true combustion chamber volume of 1031 LT-4 eliminator heads ? 55 cc, 56 cc, 58 cc 74 cc or someting else ??

black_89_vette

How were the exhaust flow numbers?

mseven

I agree w/the assessment of a cnc head producing better overall results or matching advertised numbers that you have outlined (low-mid would be improtant for a street driver, the .700 wouldn't concern me as much). Whether numbers for a product are good or bad I am interested in knowing whats out there. Could you provide a little more info such as: which cylinder head was tested, what method of testing was used and, can you post the entire flow sheet?
Your last comment regarding an 18* head, was this a 23* head?
you made it sound as though going to an 18* cylinder head is an easy/inexpensive swap....

comp

could the flow #'s be that different between test equipment ???

0Tony Mamo @ AFR

What cylinder head....what were the actual numbers....what type of equipment was actually used to flow test the head....was there a clay or radiused inlet entry....was a proper flow tube used on the exhaust....what bore size and type of fixture....what shop was used for the testing, etc., etc....(these are the questions that immediatly come to mind).

Most importantly, why wasnt I (or my company) contacted first as I assume you must know of our presence on this board. Even if you didnt know of our involvement, wouldnt a call to the manufacturer been warranted before a post of this nature? Had you done so and felt we just blew you off then a post of this nature would be more inline and stating that you had contacted us with little or no help (not the case here of course).

You know what happens more times than I can count....the head wasnt flow tested properly.

Here is a report that posts kind of just the opposite picture about our product from one of the largest and most respected names in the business. This guy has seen everything and has been flowtesting heads longer than a fair amount of people reading and posting on this site have been alive....it also includes real world dyno testing to back it up (ultimately the most important facet of their design).

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/tech...er-masses.html

I would encourage the original poster to PM me and better yet call me on Monday at the shop. Hopefully we can resolve the descrepancy and possibly look at the heads in question. The fact they were off a bunch at .300 really leads me to question the results as our heads are extremely un-sensitive at that number and should have been alot closer to our advertised published figures. Note there are big variables in flow benches themselves....even the same type of equipment which is another huge factor in and of itself. If these heads are off as much as described we will stand behind them (but I seriously doubt that is the case).....ultimately we will make it right but must be given the opportunity to do so.

Thanks,
Tony Mamo
(661)257-8124 Ext. 109

jsup

All this means nothing unless we understand the entirety of the build. AFR is a fantastic head for high end applications. If the rest of your build can't support the numbers AFR is capable of it won't mean a dam thing. AFR is too reputable of a company to be far off. I think there's something else going on. But why wrap yourself up in these numbers? I personally don't think simply finding the biggest numbers of a particular characteristic of a particular product means crap. The entire build needs to be considered. You do realize there is a guy here OL' what's his name, went from AFR to Dart and made more power? Not becuase the AFRs didn't flow better, but because the Darts played nicer with his entire build.

More information is required. This information in a vacuum is pointless.

And when you're done, you tell me what you're leaving on the table going from Brodix to AFR, cause nobody else can.

thanks.

cv67

If I have a head flowed I use one of two friend's benches, they both vary by almost 10 cfm no matter which style head is on there. Just like dynos, take it with a grain of salt, they wont all read the same depending on diffferent factors as mentioned above.
Tell your builder to relax.

jsup

A builder should know that.

jsup

Great point. That's all I'm saying. It's not a one size fits all world. Consider budget and what you can do with it.

Great conclusion, I hope others can learn from this too.

BADDUCK

Since you don't know the head he has, and the head he may have chosen, how can you make that statement?

88BlackZ-51

I have no clue where you are going with this. I stated that brodix had nothing to compare to the afr eliminator head, especially for the price.

BADDUCK

I was taking exception with such a sweeping statement with NO way to know the final set-up you might be comparing to and no facts in your post to back your statement it up.
At least the OP stated some facts.

BTW you can do the math on his actual flows by percentage and come up with a number using AFR's advertised flow for the 195's.

It won't make any difference what the OP provides however, he will still get his ***** busted.

jsup

That's not true. Anyway....I take you back to your regularly scheduled thread.

cv67

No reason to bust his *****, hes just repeating what his builder told him. Probably doesnt know that they can differ.

BrianCunningham

10cfm on a 300cfm head is 3%
Given that no two flow benches are calibrated exactly the same, that's pretty close.

I just bought a set of AFR 195 LT4 Eliminators.

I'll have them flowed and post my results here

ZD1

I'm still a fan...just the numbers and hassle didn't live up to the hype. I waited 6 years till I could my hands on a good set of heads.