shamdave

So what is the best set up Duel 4's Single 750cfm?, or the TPI soes a carb actually add performance? what are the benefits and or drawbacks to switching from TPI to a carb on a bone stocker with a performance chip?

Deakins

On a stock engine there is no real gain in my opinion (and I have done the swap) and once you get away from the EFI you don't use the chip anymore anyway. As far as what's best on the carb end it depends on the engine and application. For example, a pro stock engine will make great power with a pair of Dominator's atop a sheet metal intake where as a sprint car engine will make the best power with Hilborn fuel injection stacks and there are many other engines that run the best with a single carb like say a comp eliminator drag engine. It's all in the application and the characteristics that the engine needs to exhibit in order to be competitive.

So the benefits on a stock engine are simplicity, low cost, the ability to easily and cheaply add better airflow in that area, and the fun aspect of playing with a carb all the time....

The drawbacks in my opinion are that you loose cold starting and running, efficiency, originality, and you get to play with a carb all the time...

Don't get me wrong, for performance bang for the buck the carb is nice but if the funds are there it's best to go with aftermarket efi that you can tune yourself. The best of both worlds can be found with a Hilborn efi set up; tons of airflow everywhere and the reliability and cold starting of factory injection. Just my .02

calpbs

The drawback for a carb is when the car pushes you back in your seat the bulge in your wallet from all the money you save may make your back a little tender. It is the BEST tried and true way to get performance and eliminate problems.

ekess744

exactly

Or is it that efi goes faster because you have less weight in your wallet?

aklim

That is a one dimensional solution if you are talking about drag racing. In fact, there are more and more EFI solutions coming up every day. For varying conditions, I don't think the EFI is that problematic. Maybe for the old timers who can't get the hang of electronics but for the most part, I would think it solves more problems than it creates.

Master__Shake_

It can solve problems if you have enough money to throw at them.

racebum

EFI isn't too hard to learn but it does require more cash up front. with the price of 92 octane around $4.50 a gallon, one has to wonder how long it will take for 5+MPG you will get on EFI to catch the price of a carb. I rarely see a carbed 92+ car which should tell us something. if you have a decent manifold to start with the urge to carb it falls. i have one of those TPIS minirams on my car, came with it when i bought it. no complaints, issues or lack of airflow in my application. where i could see a carb really being the way to go is in a purpose built drag race or road race car that uses more cam than the factory computer likes to deal with and maximum HP is the only goal.

aklim

I don't think money can solve all problems if you don't know what you are doing with the scanners. Now, if you do understand it, I don't think it is that difficult. I sold the wife's ATV because it was carbed and bought an EFI one. Same thing except EFI. Why? I can go to any altitude and it works. No recarbing necessary. It recarbs itself.

aklim

How would you find a cam that a factory computer does not like to deal with? They are adjustable, albeit with a computer.

65Z01

Umm, why is it that so many of the "big boys" at the strip run EFI???

I don't know about the $$ tradeoff but learning about EFI really isn't that difficult. I began to make the shift from carbs to EFI in '97 with my TPI IROC-Z. Sure it took lots of reading, thinking, and questioning but has paid off well for me.

I don't see how you can beat EFI for all around performance.

If you like to turn wrenches, read the books, buy a scan tool and programming tools and fine tune your own EFI machine.

aklim

I don't think that EFI will make more power than carb or vice versa. However, for the drag strip where they only go WOT, carbs are easier to adjust. Set it and forget it.

OTOH, when you want to have a daily driver where there are different conditions, that is where EFI will shine. It can adapt to the different conditions. I do know of people who have a "summer carb" and a "winter carb" because the summer one would not be the greatest in winter and vice versa.

Yes, there is new technology to master with EFI. It still all boils down to "suck, squeeze, bang, blow". EFI just allows you to make adjustments all over instead of having one adjustment for everything.

racebum

if this were the case stand alone systems would be worthless

AKS Racing

Factory computer did not like 248/254 @ 0.050", 0.670" SR cam. FAST and BS3 are fine with that. Factory computer is designed to cover a certain range of adjustability and the aftermarket steps in to fill those areas beyond the factory range.
Aaron

pr0zac

which factory computer?

calpbs

My earlier reply obviously was sent to envolk some controversy. I have been watching EFI progress for years and it is by far more efficient in the factory engine realm. Aftermarket EFI systems are expensive ($ 3,000.00 plus range) usually require a computer to tune and usually require expensive upgrades (injectors, throttle bodies, etc...) when upgrading the power output. My present set-up has worked through now the fourth power upgrade. Mine is a hot rod street car that was build for fast driving. I have a jeep when I want to go slow. It would/will be nice when EFI gets more affordable and the technology becomes more stand alone and user friendly. I do want to move in that direction. I am not however willing to be the guinnea pig while the EFI companies get it sorted out. With that said I believe a carb gives you the best bang for the buck. The biggest obstacle is hood clearance. I run a torker 2 (Ported) with a 650 Mighty Demon, Drop base air cleaner and there are still some minor carb stud marks on the underside of the hood.

hexane

I chose carb because it is just simpler. I also took out the digidash (currently for sale) and replaced it with a nice set of Auto Meter gauges. No corroded, unreliable 19 year old wiring harness insulation problems to deal with. My stock 89 computer also didn't like my old CC306 cam even in the old, less powerful 383 I had before I hurt it. Since then I have gone more radical and tuning it is never a problem. (Thanks to a wide band O2 sensor.) I would get comparable gas mileage out of this new high powered carbed 383 as I would have on an EFI system. (I just have to prevent my foot from mashing the gas pedal all the way down.)

all show and more go

i've alway wondered what was better. my question is, forget reliability,gas milage and tuning difficulties, which make more power or are they equal. i have an 86 with ported heads and a bigger cam and didnt wonna spend big bucks on a super/mini ram ( i work at advance autoparts so i can get a 750 edelbock carb and performer intake 20% off)

aklim

My REPROGRAMMED computer has absolutely no trouble with my setup. EFI can be reprogrammed for any cam you have IF you know how. If you don't know how, you are stuck. Take a carb. I have no knowledge of carbs and never worked on one but I understand EFI. Would I find carbs as adjustable? Probably not.

aklim

The make the same power. Think of EFI this way. Imagine you have a carb optimized for 1 spot in the curve. As you change the conditions, it is no longer optimized. So, now you have another carb that is optimized for that new condition. Now, think of a million different conditions and assume you have a million carbs all tuned for those exact conditions.

Here is something else. EFI can adjust pulse width and advance that is NOT linear. I can put more timing at a certain spot of the curve and take it away at another. Carbs cannot do that.

AZC4Guy

this is a key point