Da Mail Man

...again, in EVERY CASE that my car wouldn't start, when i changed out the ignition module the car would start and run fine...i have no loose connections, no bad or dirty connections, and the only thing i changed out that was NEVER changed out and was in place and common to all installations of all my ignition modules was the capacitor assembly, which i changed out a few weeks ago....

Stealthvette

I doubt the capacitor is the problem because I put in a whole new distributor and am still having the exact same problem.

Da Mail Man

.....don't know what to tell ya at this point...that was the ONLY thing i had left to replace...but as i said, only time will tell!....good luck..ps, IF the distributor was bought brand new, are you sure the capacitor is "good"....food for thought...

rick lambert

The FSM for my 87 says "Since the capacitor is used only for radio noise suppression, it will seldom need replacement". I really think you guys have another problem that points to the ICM, and Mailman, you've almost confirmed that. Just trying to help, actually looking through the FSM now.

Da Mail Man

....i understand that but, as i said before, in a points car i once had, the cap shorted out and the car woundn't start until i disconected it....that was the only thing left to do in this (88) car....only time will tell and i still carry a spare module!..i have also tried 2 ecm's too...

rick lambert

Have you read the section in the FSM about the ESC? I'm probably grasping, but this is what it says "The controller is a hard wired signal processor and amplifier which operates from 6 to 16 volts. Controller failure would be no ignition, no retard or full retard". I'm just saying I highly doubt the ICM is the trouble. I'm not sure if an ESC could cause an intermittent, but I really think we need to be looking outside the fish bowl, meaning what else could be causing a problem that is interpreted as a bad ICM, or cause an ICM to in fact go bad.

Da Mail Man

...i replaced the esc module already...a long time ago when i thought it was bad..still have teh original....if mine ever takes a dump again, i can tap on the esc and see what happens and, i can put back in teh original esc unit...only time will tell....

Da Mail Man

THE CARNAGE RE-VISITED!

..ok, it happened again!...in mid/late july this year, i replaced the original a/c delco ignition control module and all was cool and car ran fine. three days ago, i went to start car and car would not start (cranks but no start)....i took a wild stab and put in the orig esc module located near/on the heater box and put a 40 amp charge on the battery for 5 minutes and THE CAR STARTED!...now wait, don't draw a conclusion yet!

...today, approx 4 days later, i went out to start car and no start!..i fooled around with 2 known good esc modules and still no start..

...so, after cranking the battery down a bit, i hooked up my 200 amp starter/charger and cranked in the 200 amp start mode with the esc module DISCONNECTED and it appeared to almost want to start..so, to add to my non-sensical thinking of disconnecting things, disconnected the tps sensor and the car, after sputtering a bit, STARTED!..

...i have no codes thrown...what gives?..could a defective esc (not ign cont. mod.) or tps sensor keep the car from starting?...i should have disconnected the maf to see if that could be either the cause (as an intermittent) or a contributing factor....COMMENTS PLEASE!.....thanks!

rick lambert

Well, first disconnect the MAF (I don't think that's your problem, and will usually throw a code) but try it. Second I'd check the TPS .54 volts to approx. 5 volts at WOT, linear, meaning a nice smooth increase without any dips. I think you may have eliminated the esc as a potential problem.

Da Mail Man

.....well, if it doesn't start in the morning, i will unplug the maf and try it and then, sub out a known good maf and try that...i too don't think there are any issues with the maf but, i am running out of places to look!...last time i check the tps, it was in specs and linear but, that doesn't mean it can't take a dump at any time....i too agree that the esc mod is probably not the problem....however, i wonder if the added current from the charger/starter could have aided in the "start"...(yeah, i know, i am grasping at straws!)....

MK 82

I admire your troubleshooting skills. As opposed to the "change the fuel pump relay "crowd. I know this has been a bitch. I know you will get it.

Da Mail Man

.....yeah, well i am losing ground!....i have no codes thrown and when it runs (that's the buzz word - WHEN") it runs well.....if my troubleshooting skills were any damn good, i'd-a fixed this Bit_h by now!

MK 82

Yeah but none of the geniuses here have figured it out either!

Da Mail Man

...now now...everyone is a genius in some way or with something
re: vettes......i wonder if i may have (again, reaching at straws!) some part of my computer that is thermally intermittant causing this?...i have another good known computer i may substitute and i know that the connections to same are good.....may start ripping things out tomorrow and rechecking everything all over again....

rick lambert

WOW! I kinda think you've some what found your problem. This is what I think. You have a bad connection, wire etc. this is why. You really sent a charge through it with that 40 amp and 200 amp....bridgeing any bad wire or connections. I'd be checking ALL connections, especially the male portion to make sure they were spread apart far enough to make a solid connection, and I'd probably ohm alot of wires involed in those circuits. Just trying to help. I know you've done alot.

Da Mail Man

....yeah, i know and that is what i was thinking, that, with the added "omph" the 200 amps gave it, it could have momentarily "welded" the connecton to close a high resistance circuit...however, where the %#@^^%$&* do i start looking!!??..ugh!...(male portion of what device/sensor)...

rick lambert

I'm not a genious, like some claim they are. We're all here to try and help/suggest some type of remedy or test! Sometimes I think some posters just try to gather stars or whatever! Maybe you should start with checking the connections to the ECM, make sure they're clean and tight. Then move on to the esc and tps, doing the same! Inspect (ground connections) especially the battery connections. I once had a problem, when it finally came down to the end result, I peeled back part of the battery ground connection insulation, just to find for some distance the copper wireing was green (corroded), causing my problem, replaced it...end of MY problem.

Da Mail Man

I'm not a genious, like some claim they are. We're all here to try and help/suggest some type of remedy or test! ***agreed***Sometimes I think some posters just try to gather stars or whatever!***i agree absolutely!*** Maybe you should start with checking the connections to the ECM, make sure they're clean and tight.***already did that twice when i started having problems and all is cool*** Then move on to the esc ***did that the other day and that is cool*** and tps ***will do that again in next day or so***, doing the same! Inspect (ground connections) especially the battery connections ***i have no problem cranking or any lighting, etc and clamps, connections and wires are sound***.
I once had a problem, when it finally came down to the end result, I peeled back part of the battery ground connection insulation, just to find for some distance the copper wireing was green (corroded), causing my problem, replaced it...end of MY problem.***mine seems to be somewhere in the primary (12v)to the distributor (noting that i have 12v to the terminals when i take off the coil cover) but, possibly either "feeding" (primary) the i.c.m. or the output of the i.c.m. . maybe there is a pulse that is being "lost" or similar...

Da Mail Man

......i am re-looking at post #26 however, i wonder if it would still start with it disconnected completely or if due to a bad connection/short, or similar with it connected could be the culprit.......

Da Mail Man

.....A THOUGHT!

......i was sitting here thinking that in every event that i had a "no-start" situation and believed it to be the ignition module and changed it out, what did i have to mess with in doing so?

...remove the electrical wires attached to the coil
...remove some secondary wires attached to the coil (spark plug wires)
...remove cap
...remove rotor
...remove shield on ignition module
...remove screws holding ignition module
...remove bothe connectors on each side of ignition module
...remove module

.......since it is looking like a bad connection at/to/with/from the ignition module,;

...remove the electrical wires attached to the coil
***that would not cause symptom

...remove some secondary wires attached to the coil (spark plug wires)
***could cause symptom but, have a solid 12v at primary input

...remove cap
***cap is fine,button ok, to carbon.that would not cause symptom

...remove rotor
***would not cause symptom. contacts solid and clean

...remove shield on ignition module
***not shorting with anything.would not cause symptom

...remove screws holding ignition module
***would not cause symptom

...remove both connectors on each side of ignition module
***could be cause. maybe wire split inside insulation

...remove module
***n/a


...i may have to check to see if i have a bent/dirty contact at the plug attachments at each end of the module since teh pins of the module are clean and straight..

...may have to re-examine the pick up coil inside and at the base of the distributor as i had replace that some time back..

...opinions??