2funnn

I picked up a gallon of Toluene for $10. I put 32 oz in to the tank that
way 3/4 full. I had install a Halan shift light three days before and was plannig to lower the RPM setting from 5300 down to 5200 because it seemed like it ran out of power before the light came on. Well after putting the Toluene in and driving around several miles it felt like it was running really smooth and had more power. Keep in mind the here in CA our premium is only 90-91 octane.
So for the heck of it I thought I would make the Shift light come on. When I nailed it in first gear the RPM's flew right up to 5500 with power all the way, the same for second then third gear (6 spd) . My Vette runs so much stronger now. I put it in my wifes Vette and our Honda. I works out to only about $2.50 per tank full.
Thanks for all the info about Toluene. The Forum Rules! :cheers:

jpee

Where can I get it.. ? What kind of store would sell it ?

KCvetteowner

Paint/hardware stores sell it.... Look around mineral spirits, paint strippers.

RatRacer

Commercial paint stores sell it for $5.50/gal or so. Unless you have a power adder, high compression and low octane fuel that makes your car ping, there is no reason to add it to your gas.

I run 15%+/- when I run the juice.

Adding too much will make throttle response sluggish. If you are not running high compression or a power adder, do not add more than 5%.

jpee

My motor is dead stock except for 1.6 RR , and every now & then I can hear a little spark knock under FULL throttle at app 4000 rpm, I have the LT4 knock sensor to prevent it from retarding the spark, but maybe a little Toluene wouldn't hurt at the track ?

I run it with about 5 gal of gas in the tank so how much Tolune should I add .. is there a formula so many oz per gal.. I'm not looking to make it a TF car, just stop the ping ..
Cam... sorry I just read your reply... :( I asked before I read your reply... you answered my ques tkxx..

Gotta give us "old timers a break" :)


[Modified by Red96Coupe, 5:04 PM 2/15/2002]

2funnn

I got it from ACE hardware. My engine dosen't have any power adder or high compression, its's pretty much stock. It never pinged, it just seem like it should
run better. The octane I was using here in CA was only 90-91 and I think the
computer was compensating for the low octane by backing the timing down or
something. All I know is it is running better than it ever has. :flag

emoshn

What is it? What does it do? Will it hurt anything?

BBA

I just went to Ace Hardware here and they didn't even know what toulene was....but they charged a minimum of $9.95 per gallon of anything...even for denatured alcohol.

I'll try Lowes or Home Depot tomorrow.

Nathan Plemons

Anybody have any ideas about what it does to your fuel system? Some of the snake oils out there will work really well, until they destroy your injectors and such. I've never heard of the stuff, so I can't say for sure it's dangerous, but I can't say it's not either.

Next time you fill up try not using the stuff and see if your car feels sluggish again, it could be that it just cleaned something out. My 92 has never felt sluggish at all and has always pulled hard to the redline even before I did any mods. Maybe it's because I can always get 92 or 93 octane here, but I really don't think 1 point would make that much difference, the computer is better than that. If you can only get 91 it's probably because your elevation is higher. In Denver premium is like 90, just because the lower atmospheric pressure serves to lower compression.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that your car has another issue and you are treating the symptom, or it could be that the stuff is a very good fuel injector cleaner and it works great. I'm just always skeptical of pouring other things down the tank.

What else does everybody know about this stuff? I tried the search, but it doesn't seem to be working right at the moment, it's coming up with 0 results even if I enter the title of this post.

Mike263

http://www.ertco.com/msds_toluene.html

It's a solvent. I remember using it in chenistry class. For you old guys, it smells like "airplane glue" and destroys brain cells if inhaled a lot.

Depending on the concentration it could damage electical windings in injectors.

Nathan Plemons

Hmm, I'd be concerned about the line in there that says may degrade some types of plastic and rubber.

Good info, thanks.

vanduker

If you like Toluene, try Xylene. Toluene is ~ 114 octane while Xylene is ~ 116.5.

Check out http://home.earthlink.net/~galiagant...e-booster.html
for some nifty info.

Mark

Nathan Plemons

Interesting info, but the guy just doesn't seem to know a lot about engines.

Um, how about compression in there? I had a 91 Cutlass that actually ran WORSE on high ocatane fuel, the compression was only 8.3:1. There was NO performance improvement whatsoever, fuel economy was the same. All high octane did for me was to cause harder starting as it's harder to detonate.

Sure he's right, about using good fuel to begin with, but your average low compression low power 4 cyl will see no benefit of higher ocatane. Remeber higher octane is HARDER to detonate, that's what pinging is, preignition due to a variety of factors, but can be caused by high compression. Put regular unleaded in a 15:1 compression motor, and see how well it works. It won't matter one bit if it's a 4 cyl or a v-12 it won't run.

Now what he's probably talking about is 4 cyl imports that run fairly high compression numbers, in which case he is correct, they will see more benefit than a low compression v-8. He's seeing the results but not the cause. I hate to tell him that with his test car he'll probably find that every single one of his conjured mixtures will make his motor run worse. Now if somebody would like to use a race car for testing then the results would be valuable.

There is good info, just not really good reasoning, kinda misguided.

Just my $.02 worth, or was it more like $.25


[Modified by Nathan Plemons, 8:14 PM 2/15/2002]

PeteL

Nathan is getting this!

For more fun look into BTU's with 87 octane vs. say 92. There is more energy available in the same volume of 87 octane then there is in 92. Then look into the BTU's of some of these other chemicals. You are all over this answer!

Let's see if Mackey or some of the racers will post up about why you might burn alcohol, and the BTU capacity of that fuel. It's all about the whole package and where you need the mix to burn.

I agree if you have an STOCK LT1 that improves HP ot et with an octane increaser, there are issues that if solved will probably provide better performance on pump gas.

Another great source would be the GN boards.

Pete

RatRacer

I used to run Methanol in my motorcycles. You 'd see about a 15% increase in torque and horsepower. It requires almost double the fuel flow for correct a/f ratios. You have to advance the ignition to compensate for the slow burn. Methanol likes higher compression too.

Concerning the safety of Toluene for fuel system components, Toluene won't damage anything in the fuel system. It is already a component in pump gas in 20-30% concentrations. Anything under 50% is still considered gasoline.


[Modified by Cam Potter, 9:45 PM 2/15/2002]

Nathan Plemons

I try :) That's why I'm always reading something about how an engine works.

merrick

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically, the only way to really know how a specific engine responds to boosters is to test it. But in general, the larger an engine's displacement, the less it will (apparently) benefit from octane boosters. By the same token, one is generally better off buying the highest grade fuel you can, using boosters sparingly rather than buying lower-grade fuel and trying to "make up the difference" with boosters

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read it again. What he is saying is your better off buying high octane gas rather than boosting the octane with your additives. Not saying that you need high octane.

Rkreigh

octane slows and even the flame front. if your car doesn't detonate or ping now there's no reason to use it. but with high boost or nitrous where cyl pressures are very high, it helps. IMHO good quality gas is a better deal. you need quite a bit of xylene or toulene mixed in with the gas to get the octane up to 104. I run turbo buicks and found that mixing the gas with toulene or xylene works well, but the race gas works out cheaper. FYI, we are running boost between 20-26 lbs and often run 116 octane gas to get the best HP. :D

Nathan Plemons

Yes, but look at what he's doing. He's gonna try and see how those different additives work on a cheap 95 hp 4-cyl. His results are all goint to be negative, guaranteed. If he does see positive results it's because there is an underlying problem. I agree with you, he's right on buying better fuel, IF YOU NEED IT. But he makes some far too general assumptions. If I didn't know better I could read that to mean, oh my 5.7L has a larger displacement, I won't see as much benefit of running high octane as I would in my 2.5L. We all know that's wrong because it is not a function of displacement at all but rather of compression. There is some good info there about mixtures and what octane you will end up with given certain mixtures, etc. BUT he's way off base on his reasoning about WHY something needs high octane.

I had a friend who had an 85 Nissan Maxima, wouldn't buy anything but Shell high Octane. This thing only had like 9:1 compression when it was new, 250,000 miles ago. Absolutely no need for premium, yet he swore up and down the car ran better on it, wouldn't buy gas at any other place and wouldn't buy anything but premium. Come to find out he's NEVER bought gas anywhere else, he doesn't know. He just knows that his dad always bought this gas, so it must be the best. He got it in his head that unless you spend x amount of money on it, it's not good. He could have put regular in there and saved 20 cents per gallon and the car would have started easier and run better. Not to mention that he could have gone anywhere but shell and saved another 20 cents. Thing is there was no convincing him to even TRY it. I eventually gave up and let him keep dumping his money away. It's wrong to let a fool keep his money, but I just wish he as giving it to me rather than Shell, I'd be rich.

People think high octane is high energy and they are completely wrong. High octane will allow higher compression that results in more energy, but if the motor does not NEED high octane then you will get less power out of a higher octane fuel, assuming it will detonate at all. For optimum performance you need to run whatever the aboslute minimum octane rating you can that doesn't result in premature detonation. If you can run full timing advance on 87 octane with no pining, you will see no benefit what so ever of going with anything higher.

I know I'm being a little repetative here, but I'm just trying to drill the point home. I know I'm also fighting the wrong war here as well, you guys know all of this. The guy who wrote that article apparently doesn't. If I ever need to mix fuel I'll take his charts and see what I can come up with, it's hard to BS math.

Anything else of his I'll just leave.

2funnn

Nathan,
The minimum recommended octane according to my Corvette sevice manual
is 91. That is the minimum. So I would think that raising the octane a point
would be benifiicial. I dont think my car has any other problems that the
toluene compensated for, being that it is stock and runs 13.7 1/4 mile times.
I think the computer has backed everything down to compensate for the
minimum amount of octane. By adding Toluene I think the computer bumped things up a bit. Before Toluene it still ran good but felt to me like it could run better. where I'm at in California is not in high altidude, we just have alot of restrictions and crappy gas.

:flag