KBRVETTE93

Considering a "middle of the road" (read not forged) 355 or 383.

My car is at a local machine shop. My question is should I let them pull the engine prior to establishing pricing (granted all we know at this point is that there is a spun bearing).

Is it reasonable to ask for a parts list and pricing prior to the build?
What would be a reasonable price to pay for using as many of my 45K parts as possible and building a hot cam 355? (again not using forged parts)?

Is there a reasonable ball park price for a "typical" 383 (non forged) with steel crank ported heads, etc, I'm thinking 375hp-400hp. 375-400tq?

I'm excited about the prospect of a new engine. (already have the Long Tube headers).

Please help.

mike100

It has been awhile since i built a small block, but if you can reuse most of the original lower end, the labor list for reconditioning, the cost of the kit with gaskets, and your choice of pistons should be a straight forward itemized cost list.

you might consider a new crank, but other than that, extra costs might include a really good balance job along with torque plate boring as standard hi-perf extras. If you are only going to occasionally drag race, i'd try to reuse your crank and rods, but if you like to run long endurance stuff, or run for top speed, you might want to think about a new crank if yours has been beat real bad by the rod.

Beware of used forged cranks (mine still cracked after 3 or 4 years)- can you still even get a used factory forged??? there are a lot of aftermarket parts, for sure- just get new. I would be hesitant to get new rods on a 6k rpm motor- just the best rod bolts and a balance job. spend the rest on the heads and induction/tune/cam.

let us know how it prices out...my C4 budget is kind of like yours...400 hp on a stock rpm N/A cast parts budget.

btw, Keith Black hyper-eutectic pistons are pretty nice for the money on NA applications. seal tight, no oil burning.

KBRVETTE93

You are saying to go with a new crank, but that the rods (45K miles) are probably ok for a 6K rpm engine? Just get the best rod bolts.

What about the LT1 heads? are stock heads ok or should the be ported? (Then what about the intake?)

Thanks,
Mark

mike100

after thinking about this, if you go 383vs stock 355, the compression ration on the stock heads might be a problem. I do not like dished pistons..I always thought flat tops worked best.

many people have assembled good combinations with factory heads..just duplicate that. You need to ask what combustion chamber size people with 383's have the most success with. You will have to spend money on a crank for a 383- original 400 small block cranks were externally balanced so you need to do some things to correct that internally which will add to the cost over a 350 build. for a 350, I'd use as much as the original lower end over again with cast hyper-eutectic pistons just with ported heads and cam/tune...it won't be as fast...either that or supercharge the stock engine.

aboatguy

Are your goals RWHP (at the wheels ) or crank? You can pull those numbers easily at the crank with stock short block.....at the wheels with an A4 you can get in that neighborhood with stock shortblock but it takes more attention to detail and package choice.. I prefer AI however, TEA, LPE, LE and others can get you there.

Now, what's wrong with forged? I'd rather reuse the stock crank and have forged pistons and rods than go with mediocre crank and cast pistons cheap rods.
For a stroker Calles Comp star is a great mid range rotating assembly. For a 355 scat forged rods, Mahle power pack and stock crank will survive 7000rpm.

In my experience the rotating assembly is not a major expense in relation to the supporting mods/parts and quality machine work.

Probably the best thing to do is find a local machinist you are comfortable with and let him know what you want and see what he will do. However, don't fear compression with an LT1. I'm running a tad over 12 to 1 on pump gas with no problem. But I have a really tight quench (less than .040 PTH clearance) hell its less than 35 thou......032.


Mike

JAKE

Ask, the shop should give you a price list for all the services they offer. You can then chime in with us for recommendations or just choose what you want done on your own.

Budget is a BIG consideration, but bigger cubes would be the way to go; more bang for the buck.

You just need to sit down and do your homework. Decide on what your goals are, and how much you have to spend. Once you've got those little details ironed out, you can go into the 'parts selection' mode.

Certain machine work procedures are absolutely required for any good re-build; just can't get around that. There's a long list of things I could post here on my views, but I'll wait til you have made and shared more details. The range of options are extensive.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

pr0zac

i don't see why you would need a new bottom end.. many have made huge numbers running stock bottom ends. cam and new or ported stock heads would be a better buy.

KBRVETTE93

Thank you guys very much for the help! What would be the approximate range of reasonable cost for using the stock bottom end (polishing the stock crank), Porting stock LT1 heads, installing GM hotcam (other cam recommendations), including miscellanious pieces (rocker arms, timing gear/chain), machine work and dyno tune?

What is a reasonable RWHP/RWtorque expectation? What would be the "no brainer/must include" items (port intake, deck heads, 6" forged rods, knock sensor)

I also need some opinion related to a reasonable price range for a "middle of the road" stroker motor including "no brainer add-ons".

Please pardon the obvious ignorance. First lap around the block, for me.
I plan a few track days in the future. 20-30 sessions.

pr0zac

elliottsportworks.com or advancedinduction.com for ported heads.. airflowresearch.com for new. call any or all of them.. they will chat with you all day to get you the end product in which you desire.

KBRVETTE93

Thank you for the resources. I would like to see if there is a concensus regarding how much money I should pay for a "middle of the road" stock bottom end build vs a "middle of the road" 383 build.

I know that some of you have a lot more in your motors than I want to spend. I have been guilty of emotional overspending, in the past. Just looking for reasonable budget numbers from those of you that know.

I will be giving the go ahead to my builder based on the advise and experience of forum members.

Thanks guys

aboatguy

Generally, power is in the top end...displacement changes where the power band is so the difference in price between your street 383 and 350 is going to be what you spend on the lower end.
Hidden costs on a head cam swap are....valve train(roller rockers, guideplates, pushrods), higher stall converter (if you have an auto), headers (you already have them), TB (in your power range you may need a bigger Throttle body), Tune, gears (if auto with 2.59 to 3.08)


Hard to give a price since a chinese TB is less money than an AS&M, Jesel Shaft rockers are more money than scorpian etc, cometic gaskets are more money than white box OEM equilvalents .

Honestly I'd plan on 5K if I went for a 2K dollar package on an A4 and 4K for a manual. The project can be done cheaper but it sucks if you plan on 2K for a 2K project when reality finally hits whereas coming in at or under budget is a relief.

383vett

This could get you in trouble. Advice from forum members is great, but you also have to do your own research outside the forum. Call some respectable engine builders and ask them what they do to make their engines work and last, what parts they use and for how much. Look at crate engine combos, see what they include, check prices, warranties, hp figures and then go back to your guy and see what he can/will do for what price and what warranty.

aboatguy

great advise.....

KBRVETTE93

That is great advice. I have a 6-speed car with headers. Looking for the path in the darkness that leads to organized rational thought. I appreciate you guys being a sounding board.

I am getting the impression that I should expect to spend about 4K+/- on a heads and cam motor with stock bottom. The stroker would involve a new rolling assembly.

STL94LT1

OOPS, just reread your original statement.

KBRVETTE93

Thanks for the advice. I will keep you posted on the build.