black88z51

Do you have to drain all the coolant, that line that connects to where the oil filter mounts is bolted down twice to the oil pan studs and I'm wondering if it will get in the way when I try to pull the pan out. My car's an 88 stick. Thanks in advance

GREGGPENN

I took the hard cooler line loose. Even then it's a PITA to get the durn oil pan off!

IOW, drain it!

(If you haven't COMPLETELY drained, flushed your fluid within the past couple of years, you should do it for that reason too.)

black88z51

what a PITA! Yeah I just put new coolant in it last winter too. I took all the bolts out today, tomorrow I'll pull the starter and bell housing cover off. The pan's stuck on there reall good too, how did you pry it off?

black88z51

now I'm in trouble and could use some help. I got everything off except the pan, it will not clear the bellhousing. The pan tilts in the rear (towards bellhousing) and the front wont move as much. I tried turning the crank a little, it turned a bit but is too hard I need a better wrench. Any Ideas? angle grinder?

Pete K

Remove the spark plugs and the motor will turn easier.

GREGGPENN

The FSM says to remove the frame braces. In another thread, one person said they didn't need to. I did.

Can you see up/around the oil pan well enough to judge where the crank needs to be rotated to?

Aardwolf

You can hook the starter up just temp to bump it over too. For turning the engine I found it easiest to unhook the fan and use a half inch breaker bar with ratchet adapter.

It makes it easier if you remove the diagonal frame braces, the passenger side brake line, and lift the engine. Just 1/2" makes a big difference. Also removing the oil filter adapter helps.

pletzvet

Been there and done it! - a month or so ago...remember - when you go to put the oil pan back on - you will want to be sure that your surfaces are nice and clean and you're going to want as much clearance and obstacles out of the way, to be sure that the oil pan gasket is sitting neatly in place, especially the front and rear sections. So, remove the coolant line that runs along the oil filter side. (I didn't need to touch the motor mounts or lift the engine or remove the braces or any brake lines.)

As far as the trouble that you are having getting the pan off - you might need to remove the studs at the front corners of the oil pan, if they did not turn out when you took the nuts off. The ends of these studs are machined to get a small socket on them in order to turn them out if they are still in there. As Pete K said, if you are having difficulty rotating the crank to get clearance at the crank journals - remove the plugs. I didn't have to remove the plugs; just used a socket on the crank pulley stud and an 18" johnson bar.

Mine is an auto but I don't think this will make a difference.

black88z51

ok thanks guys. I did remove all the studs, the pans just stuck between the frame and the bellhouse. how about I try this, use an angle grinder and cut the old pan in enough pieces until I can get it out. Once it's out I'll bee able to see where the counterbalances are exactly, and if I need to I'll put the starter back on an just turn it enough until it clears space - is it safe to do this? I mean it's the same thing as turning by hand a bit right? Another thing I'm thinking will help is if I remove the bellhouse after all it is what's interfering. Will the bellhouse come out so I can mount the new pan and then put the bellhouse back? I'm looking in the FSM but can't find anything.

pletzvet

I wouldn't advise going at the oil pan with an angle grinder...you're going to blow a lot of metal grindings and grinder wheel dust into the internal parts of the engine, plus there is a baffle inside the oil pan, and an oil pump sump nearby and you might possibly touch a counterbalance or journal. There's also a lot of metal in the oil pan...they're rigid!

I'm not sure if the bell housing on a manual trans sits lower than the torque converter and flywheel on an auto, but I had lots of room. Although I didn't have to, I think that if you are having clearance issues at the back of the engine, you might need to lift it off the motor mounts....perhaps someone with an manual transmission has something more to add.

black88z51

Yeah, I was just talking with a buddy over the phone who says he will come over next weekend to help lift the motor out. He says we have to lift it high. He told me not to cut the pan that's in there out because we need to jack the motor up and he didn't like the idea of sparks either. Lesson learned here if you've got a manual transmission don't even think about changing the oil pan usless the engines out of the car.

Midnight 85

I fail to see what difference the transmission makes, my buddy's son has a 93 w/ 6 speed and he just did his with no clearance problems. As pletzvet said there is no real problems doing it on an automatic, I have done mine as well. I'm thinking you still need to turn the engine a bit for clearance but since I'm not there I could be wrong. Good luck,,,oh, and put the grinder away,,, please.

GREGGPENN

You can get it out without lifting the motor. You are doing something wrong. There was a recent thread on this.

Mine is an 89 6-spd and I got mine out after 2 turns of the crank.

BTW,,,If you cut the durn thing out, the next thing you'd be p.o.'d about is the cost of an L98 replacement pan!

Midnight 85

I've got to ask this question, what on earth makes you think if you cut the oil pan up to get it out that the new one will go back in?? As you have been told, by various members, you do not have the crankshaft oriented the right way for the pan to clear, that is all.

JAKE

I agree; you're missing something. On my 86, I dropped the oil pan severtal times without much trouble.

IIRC, all I had to remove/relocate were the oil cooler hose routing, starter, angle braces, oil filter, torque converter splash shield and a couple of other small items like the knock sensor heat sheild, etc. I didn't even have to remove the two front oil pan studs; the pan dropped down enough in the front to clear them and no jacking/raising of the engine was needed either.

Re-installing the pan was even easier than the removal because I then knew what angles to hold the pan at. Come to think of it now, even a 6 quart pan from Scoggins-Dickey came off and went on without a problem. So the stock pan and a GM 6 quart version came off and went on equally easily.

If a step by step isn't shown in your GM Factory Service Manual, it's just something you'll have to figure out while you're up under.

Jake

My son, Ryan M. Cameron, graduated from West Point on 22 May 2010! He was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant and I pinned on his first pair of "Butter Bars" PROUDEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!

LD85

turn the crank so the front counterbalance weight is up top so the pan can clear the weight

todd_vette

I just had mine (an 87) out a couple of months ago due to the pick-up falling off. Make sure you pull the dip-stick...i had mine hung on that trying to figure out why the new gasket wouldn't go on...DOH!
I even left the starter and filter (no cooler) in place. It was tight but doable. Just take the 2 frame conectors(reinforcing cross bars) off the front so you can reach the front to insure the gasket is still in place and get the 2 front bolts started. It is tight but shouldn't be as hard as you indicate. Buy the more expesive 1 peice gasket and use black permatex to seal it to the edges of the pan only, set the pan on the gasket with a little weight(a large phone book is enough) on a very flat surface for 2-3 hours till the sealant is mostly set. Then put some black under the round part and on top of the entire gasket as you put it in...the front will try to catch on the crank so start the rear bolts first then the fronts. Make sertain the rounded part of the gasket is sitting right on both the front and rear seals BEFORE putting in more bolts or tightening any of them...Just barely start the rear and front bolts untill you are CERTAIN the gasket is aligned. If possible let it set for a day before filling or running the engine after you get all the bolts (and the reinforcement bars/plates) in and torqued...Not a bad idea to retorque after sitting also.

black88z51

it was just a thought. i wanted to see where the counterbalance was. i didn't think to cut it off then the new one would clear. anyway, the pan is getting stuck b/w the frame braces and the bellhousing. on the weekend I'll have to remove the frame braces, a buddy of mine said don't bother with the braces that he would dissconect the motor mounts for me and we would jack the motor up high. either way I'll get the damn thing out. Thanks

todd_vette

Make sure you don't squash the dist. cap or w/s wiper motor while raising the engine...I have seen it happen too many times.

LD85

on my 85, I have to remove the frame braces, and, if you don't mind taking the motor mount bolts out and jacking it up a little, this will help,,,,,, just take the distributor cap off first so you don't crack it against the firewall