Just got Renegade # 0009
10-05-2010, 12:34 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Just got Renegade # 0009
I finally got my Renegade home last night, but couldn't carry it upstairs for pictures till this morning (see other threads on my recent surgery and health issues).
The Renegade is a direct replacement intake DONE RIGHT for the 82-84 Crossfire cars by DCS: http://crossfireinjection.net/DCS%20Products.html
Now that I have this in my grubby little paws and can drool over it in person, all I can say is I am even more impressed now that I was with just the pictures I've seen. Having sold speed equipment for almost 10 years including working in 2 different automotive performance machine shops, I've seen a LOT of intakes. This is the nicest, cleanest best "as delivered" intake that I've yet to see.
The top is cast a solid 3/8" thick and machined so well that there is no need for a top-to-base gasket, which is a typically troublesome item on the stock intake.
The outlet of the ports appears to be larger than the inlets to the stock runners, and of course the outlets of the stock ports are just a joke and even that intake ported can't come close to this. These runners also get a 20% taper down the length to increase velocity as the charge builds speed, but they don't do it at the expense of final port size which is the key.
Those runners are also fed by a 20% larger plenum area that still keeps the TBI's at stock height and location, but doesn't interfere with the valve covers or distributor/water neck area.
Notice that on the bottom side of the intake the front and rear areas that seal to the block are fully machined, so all you have to do is put RTV on top of the block ends, drop in the Fel-Pro 1205's and bolt it down. No more problems with end seals slipping or any of that junk.
Even the common trouble spots that often need 12 point bolts just to get a wrench in have enough clearance to use stock hex-head bolts.
If there was one thing that I HAD to pick as a flaw in this intake, it would be the Renegade logo on the top - but only because that would be the only clue to a Kalifornia smog tech that it's not a stock intake and make them look for a CARB EO# which the Renegade currently doesn't have. Personally, I'm not convinced that it needs a CARB EO # though since it's a 100% direct replacement part just like the replacement intakes sold at Autozone, Kragens, etc.
Here are my nice, hi-res pics for you including one of the EGR port as in empties into the plenum since several people have asked about that. The Renegade eliminated the HUGE hump that GM used for the stock EGR setup. Most everyone who has been porting the stock intake gets rid of that anyways and I can't imagine that it ever helped flow :P
Also, note the factory gasket matching job on the ports. More attention to detail that you don't get from anyone else!
When I get it installed, I'll take it back to the dyno and get solid numbers on the difference. I still need to get some 0-60 times as well before and after the swap.
The Renegade is a direct replacement intake DONE RIGHT for the 82-84 Crossfire cars by DCS: http://crossfireinjection.net/DCS%20Products.html
Now that I have this in my grubby little paws and can drool over it in person, all I can say is I am even more impressed now that I was with just the pictures I've seen. Having sold speed equipment for almost 10 years including working in 2 different automotive performance machine shops, I've seen a LOT of intakes. This is the nicest, cleanest best "as delivered" intake that I've yet to see.
The top is cast a solid 3/8" thick and machined so well that there is no need for a top-to-base gasket, which is a typically troublesome item on the stock intake.
The outlet of the ports appears to be larger than the inlets to the stock runners, and of course the outlets of the stock ports are just a joke and even that intake ported can't come close to this. These runners also get a 20% taper down the length to increase velocity as the charge builds speed, but they don't do it at the expense of final port size which is the key.
Those runners are also fed by a 20% larger plenum area that still keeps the TBI's at stock height and location, but doesn't interfere with the valve covers or distributor/water neck area.
Notice that on the bottom side of the intake the front and rear areas that seal to the block are fully machined, so all you have to do is put RTV on top of the block ends, drop in the Fel-Pro 1205's and bolt it down. No more problems with end seals slipping or any of that junk.
Even the common trouble spots that often need 12 point bolts just to get a wrench in have enough clearance to use stock hex-head bolts.
If there was one thing that I HAD to pick as a flaw in this intake, it would be the Renegade logo on the top - but only because that would be the only clue to a Kalifornia smog tech that it's not a stock intake and make them look for a CARB EO# which the Renegade currently doesn't have. Personally, I'm not convinced that it needs a CARB EO # though since it's a 100% direct replacement part just like the replacement intakes sold at Autozone, Kragens, etc.
Here are my nice, hi-res pics for you including one of the EGR port as in empties into the plenum since several people have asked about that. The Renegade eliminated the HUGE hump that GM used for the stock EGR setup. Most everyone who has been porting the stock intake gets rid of that anyways and I can't imagine that it ever helped flow :P
Also, note the factory gasket matching job on the ports. More attention to detail that you don't get from anyone else!
When I get it installed, I'll take it back to the dyno and get solid numbers on the difference. I still need to get some 0-60 times as well before and after the swap.
Last edited by mcm95403; 10-05-2010 at 01:44 PM.
10-05-2010, 01:25 AM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: altered state
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St. Jude Donor '05
Looks real nice. Now grind the names off and spray it cast grey for the smog man. 
Doesnt the air cleaner cover it up?
Doesnt the air cleaner cover it up?
10-05-2010, 01:28 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Yep, the air cleaner would cover it up, and I doubt they would see the "DCS" and "Made in USA" on the #1 & 3 runners
BTW, I did get this intake "previously owned". It was bought, then the car it was to go on was sold before it was installed. DCS has shipped almost 50 of these production units now but I'll bet I'm the first one ever to purchase one "used"
10-05-2010, 07:27 AM
#4
I finally got my Renegade home last night, but couldn't carry it upstairs for pictures till this morning (see other threads on my recent surgery and health issues).
The Renegade is a direct replacement intake DONE RIGHT for the 82-84 Crossfire cars by DCS: http://crossfireinjection.net/DCS%20Products.html
Now that I have this in my grubby little paws and can drool over it in person, all I can say is I am even more impressed now that I was with just the pictures I've seen. Having sold speed equipment for almost 10 years including working in 2 different automotive performance machine shops, I've seen a LOT of intakes. This is the nicest, cleanest best "as delivered" intake that I've yet to see.
The top is cast a solid 3/8" thick and machined so well that there is no need for a top-to-base gasket, which is a typically troublesome item on the stock intake.
The outlet of the ports appears to be larger than the inlets to the stock runners, and of course the outlets of the stock ports are just a joke and even that intake ported can't come lcose to this. These runners also get a 20% taper down the length to increase velocity as the charge builds speed, but they don't do it at the expense of final port size which is the key.
Those runners are also fed by a 20% larger plenum area that still keeps the TBI's at stock height and location, and slo doesn't interfere with the valve covers or distributor/water neck area.
Notice that on the bottom side of the intake the front and rear areas that seal to the block are fully machined, so all you have to do is put RTV on top of the block ends, drop in the Fel-Pro 1205's and bolt it down. No more problems with end seals slipping or any of that junk.
Even the common trouble spots that often need 12 point bolts just to get a wrench in have enough clearance to use stock hex-head bolts.
If there was one thing that I HAD to pick as a flaw in this intake, it would be the Renegade logo on the top - but only because that would be the only clue to a Kalifornia smog tech that it's not a stock intake and make them look for a CARB EO# which the Renegade currently doesn't have. Personally, I'm not convinced that it needs a CARB EO # though since it's a 100% direct replacement part just like the replacement intakes sold at Autozone, Kragens, etc.
Here are my nice, hi-res pics for you including one of the EGR port as in empties into the plenum since several people have asked about that. The Renegade eliminated the HUGE hump that GM used for the stock EGR setup. Most everyone who has been porting the stock intake gets rid of that anyways and I can't imagine that it ever helped flow :P
Also, note the factory gasket matching job on the ports. More attention to detail that you don't get from anyone else!
When I get it installed, I'll take it back to the dyno and get solid numbers on the difference. I still need to get some 0-60 times as well before and after the swap.
The Renegade is a direct replacement intake DONE RIGHT for the 82-84 Crossfire cars by DCS: http://crossfireinjection.net/DCS%20Products.html
Now that I have this in my grubby little paws and can drool over it in person, all I can say is I am even more impressed now that I was with just the pictures I've seen. Having sold speed equipment for almost 10 years including working in 2 different automotive performance machine shops, I've seen a LOT of intakes. This is the nicest, cleanest best "as delivered" intake that I've yet to see.
The top is cast a solid 3/8" thick and machined so well that there is no need for a top-to-base gasket, which is a typically troublesome item on the stock intake.
The outlet of the ports appears to be larger than the inlets to the stock runners, and of course the outlets of the stock ports are just a joke and even that intake ported can't come lcose to this. These runners also get a 20% taper down the length to increase velocity as the charge builds speed, but they don't do it at the expense of final port size which is the key.
Those runners are also fed by a 20% larger plenum area that still keeps the TBI's at stock height and location, and slo doesn't interfere with the valve covers or distributor/water neck area.
Notice that on the bottom side of the intake the front and rear areas that seal to the block are fully machined, so all you have to do is put RTV on top of the block ends, drop in the Fel-Pro 1205's and bolt it down. No more problems with end seals slipping or any of that junk.
Even the common trouble spots that often need 12 point bolts just to get a wrench in have enough clearance to use stock hex-head bolts.
If there was one thing that I HAD to pick as a flaw in this intake, it would be the Renegade logo on the top - but only because that would be the only clue to a Kalifornia smog tech that it's not a stock intake and make them look for a CARB EO# which the Renegade currently doesn't have. Personally, I'm not convinced that it needs a CARB EO # though since it's a 100% direct replacement part just like the replacement intakes sold at Autozone, Kragens, etc.
Here are my nice, hi-res pics for you including one of the EGR port as in empties into the plenum since several people have asked about that. The Renegade eliminated the HUGE hump that GM used for the stock EGR setup. Most everyone who has been porting the stock intake gets rid of that anyways and I can't imagine that it ever helped flow :P
Also, note the factory gasket matching job on the ports. More attention to detail that you don't get from anyone else!
When I get it installed, I'll take it back to the dyno and get solid numbers on the difference. I still need to get some 0-60 times as well before and after the swap.
Very Pretty!
I always kinda liked the Crossfire Corvette Engine in 1982 & 1984.
The First Corvette I ever drove was a 1982 Silver Anniversary Edition. Had the Crossfire Motor.
Was In College and my old girl friends dad had it.
He threw the keys at me one day and said "You Two have Fun Now".
I ended up driving that 82 Crossfire Corvette for the next 2 years as often as I could.
Fun Car and liked the Crossfire Engine ALOT.
10-06-2010, 02:53 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Today was my first day going back to work, so on the way in I stopped at Gotelli's speed shop to get my Fel-Pro 1205's for the Renegade install that I hope to do this weekend.
Mr. Gotelli was in as usual - he's the owner and has been there for about 40 years, so he knows his speed equipment. I had told him about the intake, so I took it along this morning to show it to him. He was very impressed with the quality and the machining "Wow, that's really nice!", and then he asked how much it was. When I told him the price (these retail for just $465), he was very surprised, saying that he expected it to be at least $1,000. I told him about the last dyno test and that I'd take it back for a follow-up. He's very interested to see the results and wants to see the stocker after I swap the intakes.
Hopefully this weekend I'll have some results and some before & after videos posted on YouTube.
Mr. Gotelli was in as usual - he's the owner and has been there for about 40 years, so he knows his speed equipment. I had told him about the intake, so I took it along this morning to show it to him. He was very impressed with the quality and the machining "Wow, that's really nice!", and then he asked how much it was. When I told him the price (these retail for just $465), he was very surprised, saying that he expected it to be at least $1,000. I told him about the last dyno test and that I'd take it back for a follow-up. He's very interested to see the results and wants to see the stocker after I swap the intakes.
Hopefully this weekend I'll have some results and some before & after videos posted on YouTube.
10-06-2010, 03:44 PM
#6
Race Director
Looks nice. Can't wait for the results.
10-06-2010, 04:48 PM
#7
Drifting
Does this replace the crossfire intake manifold? It looks similar to the plenum I got from X-Ram. X-Ram plenum sat on top of a Wienand carburetor intake manifold. The TBs sat on top of the X-Ram. Those runners look small.
10-06-2010, 06:40 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Not to crush the XRam, but...The fluid dynamics of an XRam manifold is absolute crap! Ben has posted here recently somewhere on his results, you'll have to do a search for the thread. Is he a believer in this manifold...yep, but read his post, in his words vs. just me posting this.
Last edited by Buccaneer; 10-06-2010 at 06:43 PM.
10-06-2010, 07:00 PM
#9
Drifting
Do you toss the old CF manifold and replace it with this one? What about the 8.5:1 compression on the L83? I would imagine if you put 10.1:1 heads on with 2.02" intake and 1.5" with 1.5 rockers it would come alive with a Renegade.
10-06-2010, 08:33 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Unless you need the stock one for smog, I'd say turn it in for scrap metal. The L-83 is 9:1 stock. I'm sure some extra CR would help, but I don't think I'd want to go 10:! just so that I can keep running regular
I'm currently looking into different heads. I'd love to run vortec heads so right now I'm searching for a junker or 2 of those that I can chop up to see if there is a way to drill them for EGR - gotta pass smog!
If that fails, there are some other options too. Summit has a pair of cheap cast iron heads for $619 a pair that are large chamber and 2.02/1.60's, but beyond that I'd probably go Edelbrock Performers or small AFR's/TrickFlows
Last edited by mcm95403; 10-07-2010 at 06:43 AM.
10-06-2010, 09:58 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Unless you need the stock one for smog, I'd say turn it in for scrap metal. The L-83 is 9:1 stock. I'm sure some extra CR would help, but I don't think I'd want to go 10:! just so that I can keep running regular
I'm currently looking into different heads. I'd love to run vortec heads so right now I'm searching for a junker or 2 of those that I can chop up to see if there is a way to drill them for EGR - gotta pass smog!
If that faisl, there are some other options too. Summit has a pair of cheap cast iron heads for $619 a pair that are large chamber and 2.02/1.60's, but beyond that I'd probably go Edelbrock Performers or small AFR's/TrickFlows
I'm currently looking into different heads. I'd love to run vortec heads so right now I'm searching for a junker or 2 of those that I can chop up to see if there is a way to drill them for EGR - gotta pass smog!
If that faisl, there are some other options too. Summit has a pair of cheap cast iron heads for $619 a pair that are large chamber and 2.02/1.60's, but beyond that I'd probably go Edelbrock Performers or small AFR's/TrickFlows
As far as EGR goes, the manifold already has a built in OEM EGR option, just bolt on your stock EGR valve and press on. No special head needed.
We have two 383 motors that we run with CFI with 10.25:1 CR on pump gas 89/91 octane with no issues. My next motor will be 10.5:1 or a little more and still run 91 pump gas. 10.0:1 is a piece of cake. As long as you stay under 11, you're fine on pump gas.
10-06-2010, 10:56 PM
#13
Hey mcm95403, I see that a company called Goodson Engine Tools makes a jig to redrill vortecs for the traditional pattern, call around to the machine shops to see if they have it. Maybe they'll rent it out. I couldn't find any info on adding the exhaust cross-over to the vortec heads to feed the egr though.
10-07-2010, 01:05 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Hey mcm95403, I see that a company called Goodson Engine Tools makes a jig to redrill vortecs for the traditional pattern, call around to the machine shops to see if they have it. Maybe they'll rent it out. I couldn't find any info on adding the exhaust cross-over to the vortec heads to feed the egr though.
That's because the Vortec heads don't have an EGR port - that's why I want to get a bad one and chop it up to see if there is a way to drill it and have EGR.
The Renegade is all setup for the EGR of course, so that's easy - it's the Vortec heads that are the problem - as far as what I've been able to find so far.
10-07-2010, 03:02 AM
#15
Drifting
Unless you need the stock one for smog, I'd say turn it in for scrap metal. The L-83 is 9:1 stock. I'm sure some extra CR would help, but I don't think I'd want to go 10:! just so that I can keep running regular
I'm currently looking into different heads. I'd love to run vortec heads so right now I'm searching for a junker or 2 of those that I can chop up to see if there is a way to drill them for EGR - gotta pass smog!
If that faisl, there are some other options too. Summit has a pair of cheap cast iron heads for $619 a pair that are large chamber and 2.02/1.60's, but beyond that I'd probably go Edelbrock Performers or small AFR's/TrickFlows
I'm currently looking into different heads. I'd love to run vortec heads so right now I'm searching for a junker or 2 of those that I can chop up to see if there is a way to drill them for EGR - gotta pass smog!
If that faisl, there are some other options too. Summit has a pair of cheap cast iron heads for $619 a pair that are large chamber and 2.02/1.60's, but beyond that I'd probably go Edelbrock Performers or small AFR's/TrickFlows
10-07-2010, 06:53 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Wai wai wai... no disrespect, but your looking to custom fit some heads, and bought a 500 dollar intake, and dont want to run say 10.8 compression because of the price of gas? As long as this manifold really is worth its weight in gold as people are saying, some higher compression piston/heads combo would theoretically eliminate all downfalls of the l-83.
Two different items there.
First, I don't want to get the compression too high and then have problems with it pinging. Also, this is my only car and in the 3 months I've had it I already have 5K miles on it. It's not the weekend toy, it does everything so it needs to stay practical. Changing to Vortec heads and picking up another 20-40 horsepower without sacrificing drivability is a big improvement for a relatively small cost. As it is, the Vortec heads are 64 cc chambers and the stock L-83 heads are 72, so the CR would be bumping up to about 10:1. I'd polish the chambers to reduce the potential for knock and use a thicker head gasket to get it into the 9.5:1 range if I go that route.
Second, the stock computer is not that sophisticated and I'm trying to avoid chaning it to something else. I still have to deal with California smog laws, so the more mild I keep it (including compression which increases NOx output) the better.
It's not that I'm being cheap about gas, but I do enjoy being able to fill it up with anything and have it run smooth. At my current rate of almost 2 tanks a week and at $50 a tank, my monthly (and yearly) gas bill is kinda spooky.
The intake has always been the primary downfall of the L-83, but the next limiting factor is the computer and injector capacity. And again, I'm not looking to make this a super-quick car, just enjoyable and respectable. If I can get it into the 13's and still be as smooth and nice to drive as it is now, I'll be a very happy camper.
Last edited by mcm95403; 10-07-2010 at 06:57 AM.
10-07-2010, 07:53 AM
#17
Le Mans Master
I hope it works out as well as expected for you and I'm really glad to see a change in subject matter. I was getting bummed out with so many "My car won't do this" and "my car won't do that"; "won't start", etc., etc.
Just too much of the same thing was starting to get to me, LOL.
Jake
Just too much of the same thing was starting to get to me, LOL.
Jake
10-07-2010, 08:09 AM
#18
Two different items there.
First, I don't want to get the compression too high and then have problems with it pinging. Also, this is my only car and in the 3 months I've had it I already have 5K miles on it. It's not the weekend toy, it does everything so it needs to stay practical. Changing to Vortec heads and picking up another 20-40 horsepower without sacrificing drivability is a big improvement for a relatively small cost. As it is, the Vortec heads are 64 cc chambers and the stock L-83 heads are 72, so the CR would be bumping up to about 10:1. I'd polish the chambers to reduce the potential for knock and use a thicker head gasket to get it into the 9.5:1 range if I go that route.
Second, the stock computer is not that sophisticated and I'm trying to avoid chaning it to something else. I still have to deal with California smog laws, so the more mild I keep it (including compression which increases NOx output) the better.
It's not that I'm being cheap about gas, but I do enjoy being able to fill it up with anything and have it run smooth. At my current rate of almost 2 tanks a week and at $50 a tank, my monthly (and yearly) gas bill is kinda spooky.
The intake has always been the primary downfall of the L-83, but the next limiting factor is the computer and injector capacity. And again, I'm not looking to make this a super-quick car, just enjoyable and respectable. If I can get it into the 13's and still be as smooth and nice to drive as it is now, I'll be a very happy camper.
First, I don't want to get the compression too high and then have problems with it pinging. Also, this is my only car and in the 3 months I've had it I already have 5K miles on it. It's not the weekend toy, it does everything so it needs to stay practical. Changing to Vortec heads and picking up another 20-40 horsepower without sacrificing drivability is a big improvement for a relatively small cost. As it is, the Vortec heads are 64 cc chambers and the stock L-83 heads are 72, so the CR would be bumping up to about 10:1. I'd polish the chambers to reduce the potential for knock and use a thicker head gasket to get it into the 9.5:1 range if I go that route.
Second, the stock computer is not that sophisticated and I'm trying to avoid chaning it to something else. I still have to deal with California smog laws, so the more mild I keep it (including compression which increases NOx output) the better.
It's not that I'm being cheap about gas, but I do enjoy being able to fill it up with anything and have it run smooth. At my current rate of almost 2 tanks a week and at $50 a tank, my monthly (and yearly) gas bill is kinda spooky.
The intake has always been the primary downfall of the L-83, but the next limiting factor is the computer and injector capacity. And again, I'm not looking to make this a super-quick car, just enjoyable and respectable. If I can get it into the 13's and still be as smooth and nice to drive as it is now, I'll be a very happy camper.
With all of the aftermarket cylinder head availability, maybe there is a different head that is in a similar price range, that already is egr ready?
May be worth it to step up a couple hundred in initial investment. Machine work can get expensive quick.
10-07-2010, 08:42 AM
#19
Le Mans Master
Bought the Block Yesterday
Duplicate - I started a new thread on what i wrote
Last edited by JAKE; 10-07-2010 at 08:52 AM. Reason: DUPLICATE - STARTED A NEW THREAD
10-07-2010, 01:07 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
What is the cost of the Vortec heads?
With all of the aftermarket cylinder head availability, maybe there is a different head that is in a similar price range, that already is egr ready?
May be worth it to step up a couple hundred in initial investment. Machine work can get expensive quick.
With all of the aftermarket cylinder head availability, maybe there is a different head that is in a similar price range, that already is egr ready?
May be worth it to step up a couple hundred in initial investment. Machine work can get expensive quick.
Hi Pete,
The heads new are $619 a pair from Summit. I do have access to a Bridgeport so if I can use a junker as an experiment I can cut away at it to see if there is any way to mod it. If not, Summit sells a replacement head for about the same price but I don't know what the flow numbers are - I'm guessing not as good as the Vortecs. If the Vortec just can't be done, then I'd probably just go with a set of TFS or AFR's but I'm trying to avoid the cost increase.
Marc