Need a good trans expert-4L60E
06-24-2011, 11:13 AM
#1
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St. Jude Donor '05
Need a good trans expert-4L60E
Speaking of trans threads...
Sometimes wants to leave a light in 2nd then immediately jumps to 1st kind of a weird momentary jerking thing then goes away.
4th trans in this was a new GM crate deal. New controller converter etc.
This is totally getting old.
Occasionally hangs in 2nd gear too. All my prior trannies would do that here and there and eventually fail noone could figure it out.
This trans has about 50k on it, changing fluid/flushing/filter today.
not expecting anything really.
What the hell causes these trannies to do this?
1st few were rebuilt by dealer last one was brand spankin new GM crate deal same thing.
Also once in awhile when I start it theres this forward lurch, feels like someone bumped you gently from behind.
Outside of sticking a shift kit in a few T350/400s I dont know much of anything about these and not in a hurry to try it on my own.
Anyone???
Sometimes wants to leave a light in 2nd then immediately jumps to 1st kind of a weird momentary jerking thing then goes away.
4th trans in this was a new GM crate deal. New controller converter etc.
This is totally getting old.
Occasionally hangs in 2nd gear too. All my prior trannies would do that here and there and eventually fail noone could figure it out.
This trans has about 50k on it, changing fluid/flushing/filter today.
not expecting anything really.
What the hell causes these trannies to do this?
1st few were rebuilt by dealer last one was brand spankin new GM crate deal same thing.
Also once in awhile when I start it theres this forward lurch, feels like someone bumped you gently from behind.
Outside of sticking a shift kit in a few T350/400s I dont know much of anything about these and not in a hurry to try it on my own.
Anyone???
06-24-2011, 12:45 PM
#2
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St. Jude Donor '05
Local trans guy says to replace the two shift solenoids when you drop the pan 1 could be lazy.
Anyone?
Anyone?
06-24-2011, 08:00 PM
#3
Race Director
With my TCI controller on my 4l60e, I can monitor the shift command, line pressure and other parameters with a laptop. Can you do the same with some sort of program. Make sure the tps signal is correct going to the controller. Possibly a harness problem if it's happened 4 times? Willie
06-24-2011, 08:07 PM
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St. Jude Donor '05
I dont know much about that Ill have to ask around.
Guessing it could be monitored
Fluid wasnt pretty. Looked reddish on the dipstick was blackish when it was dumped
Harness meaning one inside the trans or out?
GM autos have sucked ***** since they quit making the T350/400 imo
THey just dont seem to last.
See if the old, " change fluid have failure" phantom gets me
Guessing it could be monitored
Fluid wasnt pretty. Looked reddish on the dipstick was blackish when it was dumped
Harness meaning one inside the trans or out?
GM autos have sucked ***** since they quit making the T350/400 imo
THey just dont seem to last.
See if the old, " change fluid have failure" phantom gets me
06-25-2011, 01:07 AM
#5
The 4L60E is dieing Ron.
That sucks.
This in your El Camino?
In your Vette?
Or in your daily driver pickup ?
GM does not actually rebuild their own transmissions anymore.
It is subbed out to some one else.
They are rebuilt on a high production level.
Meaning they likely do not check all clutch pack clearances, pay attention to blueprinting details, ect.
The 3-4 clutch is the #1 problem on 4L60E & 700R4's, along with the reaction sun gear shell, reaction tube bat wing washer failing, improper shift timing with the 3-4 clutch & 2-4 band( valvebody separater plate feed holes & exhaust holes).
It takes time, knowledge, & a caring person to rebuild a 4L60E & 700R4 trans right.
When done right, they should last 200,000+ miles in a stock daily driver.
That sucks.
This in your El Camino?
In your Vette?
Or in your daily driver pickup ?
GM does not actually rebuild their own transmissions anymore.
It is subbed out to some one else.
They are rebuilt on a high production level.
Meaning they likely do not check all clutch pack clearances, pay attention to blueprinting details, ect.
The 3-4 clutch is the #1 problem on 4L60E & 700R4's, along with the reaction sun gear shell, reaction tube bat wing washer failing, improper shift timing with the 3-4 clutch & 2-4 band( valvebody separater plate feed holes & exhaust holes).
It takes time, knowledge, & a caring person to rebuild a 4L60E & 700R4 trans right.
When done right, they should last 200,000+ miles in a stock daily driver.
06-25-2011, 01:48 AM
#6
Ron,
Also.
GM had problems with the 1-2 & 3-4 shift solenoids for a while in 4l60E transmissions.
The latest shift solenoids are much better.
If a shift solenoid only, like "solenoid A" (1-2 shift),
you can make the repair yourself at home.
Drop the trans pan & you will see them.
Service manual or a buddies Alldata computer at his small repair shop will show the shift solenoid layout too.
Have them make a printout for you to take home.
Also.
GM had problems with the 1-2 & 3-4 shift solenoids for a while in 4l60E transmissions.
The latest shift solenoids are much better.
If a shift solenoid only, like "solenoid A" (1-2 shift),
you can make the repair yourself at home.
Drop the trans pan & you will see them.
Service manual or a buddies Alldata computer at his small repair shop will show the shift solenoid layout too.
Have them make a printout for you to take home.
06-25-2011, 06:06 AM
#7
Drifting
Ron,
Also.
GM had problems with the 1-2 & 3-4 shift solenoids for a while in 4l60E transmissions.
The latest shift solenoids are much better.
If a shift solenoid only, like "solenoid A" (1-2 shift),
you can make the repair yourself at home.
Drop the trans pan & you will see them.
Service manual or a buddies Alldata computer at his small repair shop will show the shift solenoid layout too.
Have them make a printout for you to take home.
Also.
GM had problems with the 1-2 & 3-4 shift solenoids for a while in 4l60E transmissions.
The latest shift solenoids are much better.
If a shift solenoid only, like "solenoid A" (1-2 shift),
you can make the repair yourself at home.
Drop the trans pan & you will see them.
Service manual or a buddies Alldata computer at his small repair shop will show the shift solenoid layout too.
Have them make a printout for you to take home.
I wanted to send you a PM but I couldn't , anyway my car is a 1994. when at wot it revs , it wont shift. But in normal driving it shifts fine. I changed the two solenoids and it seems it shifts ok, but now it wont shift to 4th .
what's the problem ?
06-25-2011, 07:49 AM
#8
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St. Jude Donor '05
Guess Ill just drive it for the time being.
Lines, cooler etc were flushed seems to drive fine now.
If it gives any more issue Ill drop the pan and replace the solenoids.
Is it normal for the trans to get that dirty in 55k miles?
Was brand new (not rebuilt) GM crate trans, converter, controller.
Lines, cooler etc were flushed seems to drive fine now.
If it gives any more issue Ill drop the pan and replace the solenoids.
Is it normal for the trans to get that dirty in 55k miles?
Was brand new (not rebuilt) GM crate trans, converter, controller.
06-25-2011, 08:00 AM
#9
The 3- 4 clutch is going or gone.
Or something happened to the 4th gear hydraulic circuit( 4th gear servo included).
The input sprag is OK.
Its used - full power flow through it in 3rd gear- direct 1:1 ratio.
GM had many problems with the 3- 4 clutch..........those 5 seperate caged BOOST return springs they used caused more headaches than good.
1984 - 1987 C4's did not use them.
Leave those Boost springs out on rebuild.
Remove the transmission pan on your C4.
If the bottom of the pan is full of Silver metal material & on the flat pickup magnet & other debris...........
The 3-4 clutch pack & steels are gone.
Time for a transmission rebuild.
Look for CORVETTE MIKE 2004 "MY 700R4 REBUILD STICKY FROM LAST YEAR.
He fully documented how he( an excellent home mechanic) rebuilt his 1989 Vert 700R4 transmission.
I helped along with several others here on C4.
Many valuable tips from Mike & others.
He did it without several ( full set of ) factory Kent Moore Issues tools I have that dealership mechanics used back in the day.
Mike can help too if I am not around at times.
BR
06-25-2011, 08:16 AM
#10
Guess Ill just drive it for the time being.
Lines, cooler etc were flushed seems to drive fine now.
If it gives any more issue Ill drop the pan and replace the solenoids.
Is it normal for the trans to get that dirty in 55k miles?
Was brand new (not rebuilt) GM crate trans, converter, controller.
Lines, cooler etc were flushed seems to drive fine now.
If it gives any more issue Ill drop the pan and replace the solenoids.
Is it normal for the trans to get that dirty in 55k miles?
Was brand new (not rebuilt) GM crate trans, converter, controller.
Many new issue ATF's from parts stores have a funny smell to begin with now.
They are reformulated for HONDA vehicles too.
The HONDA additive you may be smelling/
HONDA ATF is good stuff too.
the wife drives a 1999 HONDA CRV.
Preventive maintenance like timing belt, water pump, gaskets, trans fluid replacement, ect. has kept it going problem free at 150,000 miles
So I can call it a good car too for her. LOL
If its just the 1-2 shift solenoid ( SHIFT SOLENOID "A"),
now is the time to replace rather than when the transmission fails.
The bump shift feeling from behind when leaving a stop is not good at all.
Puts excessive loading on internal geatrain parts.
I would try fixing the problem now early on if the bottom of the trans pan was not covered with 1/4 thick of clutch pack & steel debris.
A light dusting of particles in the trans pan is somewhat normal for these 4l60e & 700R4's.
The steels the frictions ride against are somewhat soft metal.
They do wear over time.
Why I chose to buy Kolene treated steels & Alto Red eagle frictions for my 700R4.
Less wear & debris in the bottom of trans pan over time.
BR
06-25-2011, 08:23 AM
#11
Guess Ill just drive it for the time being.
Lines, cooler etc were flushed seems to drive fine now.
If it gives any more issue Ill drop the pan and replace the solenoids.
Is it normal for the trans to get that dirty in 55k miles?
Was brand new (not rebuilt) GM crate trans, converter, controller.
Lines, cooler etc were flushed seems to drive fine now.
If it gives any more issue Ill drop the pan and replace the solenoids.
Is it normal for the trans to get that dirty in 55k miles?
Was brand new (not rebuilt) GM crate trans, converter, controller.
Its in my GM Performance parts book.
If this in your El Camino...............
Your are feeding over 500 horsepower into it on a bad day Ron.
I don't think current GM engineers build them tough enough for guysd like you in stock form.
4L80E would have been a better choice.
4L60E still can work.
I think the home mechanic can rebuild a GM 700 R4 & 4L60E trans for up to 600- 650 HP continuous flat footed gas pedal use for thousands of trouble free miles.
Definite have to blueprint & use top not quality parts at that power level though.
06-25-2011, 08:42 AM
#12
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St. Jude Donor '05
Its in my DD truck, boring ol stocker . Camino has the T56
Just posted here as I know which trans guys I can listen to
Maybe one day there will be another C4 to gripe about not right now.
Just posted here as I know which trans guys I can listen to
Maybe one day there will be another C4 to gripe about
not right now.
06-25-2011, 09:20 AM
#13
Need the DD though 100% reliable.
Otherwise the El Camino has to come out to run for groceries & run to the gas station or 7/ 11 handi mart.
I off today Ron to install a 5.9 L V8 engine into a 1 ton Dodge conversion van with my friend that runs his own 1 man shop.
Both are going to get a self inflicted beating today.
LOL
They give you 9 hours flat rate time.
Those JERKS that make billing times...............
Otherwise the El Camino has to come out to run for groceries & run to the gas station or 7/ 11 handi mart.
I off today Ron to install a 5.9 L V8 engine into a 1 ton Dodge conversion van with my friend that runs his own 1 man shop.
Both are going to get a self inflicted beating today.
LOL
They give you 9 hours flat rate time.
Those JERKS that make billing times...............
06-25-2011, 09:24 AM
#14
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St. Jude Donor '05
No motor or trans in the 67 again. Soon
06-25-2011, 11:00 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Many new issue ATF's from parts stores have a funny smell to begin with now.
They are reformulated for HONDA vehicles too.
The HONDA additive you may be smelling/
HONDA ATF is good stuff too.
the wife drives a 1999 HONDA CRV.
They are reformulated for HONDA vehicles too.
The HONDA additive you may be smelling/
HONDA ATF is good stuff too.
the wife drives a 1999 HONDA CRV.
Fluid is not burnt, discolored or unusual in any way except for the gear oil odor on the stick and --as I mentioned -- sometimes in the air.
Or maybe I should just go back and ask the rebuilder about all this.
06-25-2011, 11:42 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
I dont know much about that Ill have to ask around.
Guessing it could be monitored
Fluid wasnt pretty. Looked reddish on the dipstick was blackish when it was dumped
Harness meaning one inside the trans or out?
GM autos have sucked ***** since they quit making the T350/400 imo
THey just dont seem to last.
See if the old, " change fluid have failure" phantom gets me
Guessing it could be monitored
Fluid wasnt pretty. Looked reddish on the dipstick was blackish when it was dumped
Harness meaning one inside the trans or out?
GM autos have sucked ***** since they quit making the T350/400 imo
THey just dont seem to last.
See if the old, " change fluid have failure" phantom gets me
Is it a stock Torque converter? If you've 'modded' anything, did you increase the cooling and put a temp sensor on your transmission fluid?
Transmissions have _NO_ friction material.
ANY slippage = friction material removed
Heat = death.
Heat=particulates in the fluid.
Particulates in the fluid = poor valve actuation.
Poor valve actuation = broken hardparts.
If you don't know what temp the fluid is, you can't tell if you need to let it cool off. MINUTES above a certain temperature will take thousands of miles of the life expectancy of the transmission.
I have had the same 700r4 in and out of the Vette about 4 times. 3 of them were MY FAULT. I didn't put a temp gauge on the fluid like the guy told me to, I didn't put additional cooling in the system like the guy told me to, I didn't adequately clamp the cooling lines like the guy told me to.
The last install (knock wood) has been running strong for 3 or 4 years now. It's behind a 500 ft-lb 383 and I have NOT been gentle.
These transmissions can be made to last, but EVERYTHING has to be 100% correct for them to do so. They have to be stronger than the motor, they have to be tuned right, they have to have adequate cooling (or a vigilant eye to get off the loud pedal if the temps get too high)
The other problem is finding a reputable transmission dealer. A $2000 rebuild should BE a $2000 rebuild, not a pull apart, hose down, throw $75 in parts in it, throw it back in the car. There are shims and tolerances, and piston/bore clearances, and...and...and...
06-26-2011, 12:09 AM
#17
Did it smell burnt? What's the duty cycle? (Is this a show and shine car, or a 100 mile a year, 1/4 mile at a time car?)
Is it a stock Torque converter? If you've 'modded' anything, did you increase the cooling and put a temp sensor on your transmission fluid?
Transmissions have _NO_ friction material.
ANY slippage = friction material removed
Heat = death.
Heat=particulates in the fluid.
Particulates in the fluid = poor valve actuation.
Poor valve actuation = broken hardparts.
If you don't know what temp the fluid is, you can't tell if you need to let it cool off. MINUTES above a certain temperature will take thousands of miles of the life expectancy of the transmission.
I have had the same 700r4 in and out of the Vette about 4 times. 3 of them were MY FAULT. I didn't put a temp gauge on the fluid like the guy told me to, I didn't put additional cooling in the system like the guy told me to, I didn't adequately clamp the cooling lines like the guy told me to.
The last install (knock wood) has been running strong for 3 or 4 years now. It's behind a 500 ft-lb 383 and I have NOT been gentle.
These transmissions can be made to last, but EVERYTHING has to be 100% correct for them to do so. They have to be stronger than the motor, they have to be tuned right, they have to have adequate cooling (or a vigilant eye to get off the loud pedal if the temps get too high)
The other problem is finding a reputable transmission dealer. A $2000 rebuild should BE a $2000 rebuild, not a pull apart, hose down, throw $75 in parts in it, throw it back in the car. There are shims and tolerances, and piston/bore clearances, and...and...and...
Is it a stock Torque converter? If you've 'modded' anything, did you increase the cooling and put a temp sensor on your transmission fluid?
Transmissions have _NO_ friction material.
ANY slippage = friction material removed
Heat = death.
Heat=particulates in the fluid.
Particulates in the fluid = poor valve actuation.
Poor valve actuation = broken hardparts.
If you don't know what temp the fluid is, you can't tell if you need to let it cool off. MINUTES above a certain temperature will take thousands of miles of the life expectancy of the transmission.
I have had the same 700r4 in and out of the Vette about 4 times. 3 of them were MY FAULT. I didn't put a temp gauge on the fluid like the guy told me to, I didn't put additional cooling in the system like the guy told me to, I didn't adequately clamp the cooling lines like the guy told me to.
The last install (knock wood) has been running strong for 3 or 4 years now. It's behind a 500 ft-lb 383 and I have NOT been gentle.
These transmissions can be made to last, but EVERYTHING has to be 100% correct for them to do so. They have to be stronger than the motor, they have to be tuned right, they have to have adequate cooling (or a vigilant eye to get off the loud pedal if the temps get too high)
The other problem is finding a reputable transmission dealer. A $2000 rebuild should BE a $2000 rebuild, not a pull apart, hose down, throw $75 in parts in it, throw it back in the car. There are shims and tolerances, and piston/bore clearances, and...and...and...
Its all about correct shift timing of the 3-4 & 2-4 band.
Need perfect band apply times & knockoff synchronized with the 3-4 clutch.
Or problems will come about.
Trans failure.
Even in bone stock applications & grandma driving your Corvette.
06-26-2011, 12:12 AM
#19
06-26-2011, 12:17 AM
#20
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St. Jude Donor '05
Had some valvetrain issues, tore it apart and made it bigger;not in yet
vid was the 350
vid was the 350
Last edited by cv67; 06-26-2011 at 12:21 AM.