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L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

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Old 01-19-2012, 02:55 PM   #1
2VettesMike
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Default Dual Mass Flywheel, Solutions and Options

After lots of reading forum posts and trying to figure it out I'm more confused than ever on options for dual mass flywheel on my 93 LT1, 6 speed. I know I am probably on borrowed time with 125K on this clutch disc (about 60% highway miles), and 178K on the flywheel. No noises or slipping yet....

From my GM parts guy this morning this is what I found:
Flywheel, #10174482, discontinued, no GM dealer stock
Pressure plate/bearing kit #10203570, discontinued, no GM dealer stock
Clutch disc #10174491, discontinued, no GM dealer stock

Seems Luk and Carolina Clutch have long since stopped offering the dual mass flywheel

So time to go to the experts for feedback on what you have tried and worked. Below are the options that come to mind:

1. Found a new GM flywheel anywhere to buy
2. Got a dual mass GM flywheel rebuilt/resurfaced
3. Changed to single mass/spring loaded disc with no added trans noise
4. Had a dual mass flywheel failure under 100K miles
5. Had a dual mass flywheel failure between 100K-150K miles
6. Had a dual mass flywheel failure over 150K miles
7. Had a clutch disc failure under 100K miles
8. Had a clutch disc failure over 100K miles


Thanks in advance for your time.

Mike
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:22 PM   #2
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My clutch started slipping at 130k would sing in third as I hammered it trough turn 1 at CMP.
Replaced with a stage2 clutch from Carolina clutch and had a used steel flywheel installed.
Had some "rocks in a can" noise in neutral with the clutch out.

I'm probably going with a light aluminum flywheel when I finish rebuilding the 383. I expect it to be real noisy. Its a race car though.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:30 PM   #3
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Buy the SPEC "Extra Mass" flywheel and a SPEC Stage 1 clutch.

On a fairly stock car you'll barley get extra tranny noise/rattle. I've done a few stock LT1/LT4 6spd Corvettes with this set up in the past year and at idle there's nothing - but under acceleration (espc WOT) there is a little more driveline noise.

Really picky guys notice but most customers have had to have me point it out to them.
Will
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:09 PM   #4
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+1^ i have the well know noisy black tag zf6 and went with a spec single mass FW and sprung hub disc. very quiet at idle and don't even hear it when moving. Then again my car is stupid loud
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Huxtable View Post
+1^ i have the well know noisy black tag zf6 and went with a spec single mass FW and sprung hub disc. very quiet at idle and don't even hear it when moving. Then again my car is stupid loud
Can you honestly recommend spec. after your experience?

Consider talking to this guy too: http://powertorquesystems.com/
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:30 AM   #6
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Well remember again it was a two part problem. Not only did they send me wrong parts but my zf6 had the wrong ball stud in it. So yeah I can still recommend their stuff so far. Still breaking it in.

Powertorque.com is awesome. I got OEM parts from him that are discontinued also
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:48 AM   #7
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I used a 93-97 Camaro flywheel milled .090. I also used a Camaro sprung clutch disk and Corvette pressure plate. Its a very driveable combination and engages very smooth. There is a very faint "box of rocks" noise when idling at a stoplight with the clutch out. Clutch in there is no noise. Any other time no noise.

I have a black tag on my 93. Clutch does not slip with my 450hp LT1 383. I don't really beat on mine much so its hard to say if it would hold up to continual racing. You can get brand new Camaro sprung Valeo clutch discs on ebay for $99.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:44 PM   #8
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I have a 94 6spd. Original clutch and flywheel both lasted right at 150k, so yours close.

Couldn't find an original clutch and or flywheel so I went with SPEC. I got the xtra mass flywheel and the stage 2 clutch. Its horrible in neutral. Its loud, clunky and a waste of money. I called spec and they gave me BS saying I installed it wrong or didnt have it balanced. Doesnt make sense when I bought their flywheel AND clutch. No need to balance as it was when it was made and packaged. Any who...Worst decision ever..If a company came out with a dual mass so us pretty much stock guys had something to run, they would do really well. Good luck.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekguzz View Post
I have a 94 6spd. Original clutch and flywheel both lasted right at 150k, so yours close.

Couldn't find an original clutch and or flywheel so I went with SPEC. I got the xtra mass flywheel and the stage 2 clutch. Its horrible in neutral. Its loud, clunky and a waste of money. I called spec and they gave me BS saying I installed it wrong or didnt have it balanced. Doesnt make sense when I bought their flywheel AND clutch. No need to balance as it was when it was made and packaged. Any who...Worst decision ever..If a company came out with a dual mass so us pretty much stock guys had something to run, they would do really well. Good luck.
Actually, you DO need to balance your new flywheel. Why? The LT1 has a externally balanced rotating assembly. The dual mass flywheel is balanced to it at the factory. Your old dual mass and any new flywheel would have to be taken to a machine shop and the new one made to match the old one.

This to the best of my knowledge and I'm fairly certain of this. I could be wrong, it has happened before.

To Dr. Hux: It has been a while since I read your thread on your build, so thanks for the clarification. Please keep us informed of how the SPEC. stuff is holding up. I'd put them back on my list if I trusted them, just too many bad stories right now.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93Rubie View Post
Please keep us informed of how the SPEC. stuff is holding up. I'd put them back on my list if I trusted them, just too many bad stories right now.
SPEC's stuff is holding up to low 11's @over 127mph in my 92..... As well as weekly drives to work in Washington DC traffic.

I put 7,000 street miles and 55 passes at the drag strip on the car last year (2011). Not so much as a peep from the clutch.

Towards the end of 2010 was when I finally got the motor sorted out enough to drive the car and I managed 2,000 miles and 15 passes, from Aug to Sept - after which my racing season got cut short because the rear end kept breaking....

Me and my trusty SPEC clutch are looking forward to this season opening up in March.
Will
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:27 PM   #11
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My DMF was dead when I bought the car. It had 143k on it when I picked it up. From the looks of it, it had been dead for quite some time.

I installed a SPEC aluminum FW and a SPEC stage 1 clutch kit from Hinson. It drives great, revs fast, but it's a race car, so I can't tell you whether it's got rocks in a can or not. I don't hear anything, but I'm running LTs and straight through mufflers with dumps by the rear diff.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:03 AM   #12
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I noticed you have a "CAM" listed in your mods....

No flywheel will completely dampen the ZF6 rattle with a camshaft because the cam lope at idle is constatly loading and unloading the gears in the tranny. No doubt yours makes some noise at idle. It's going to, not much you can do about it.

The factory DM FW is best at masking the noise but even with big cams (and a factory DM FW) the ZF is one rattling SOB.

Opinions vary but yours can't be "horrible". My 92 has a .625 lift roller cam - which can only be described as "race car idle" and a 13lb alum FW. It isn't so bad I'd call it horrible.... When it's hot tranny noise is about as loud (and sounds like) a Power Stroke Diesel. My exhaust easily drowns the tranny noise out.
Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by derekguzz View Post
I have a 94 6spd. Original clutch and flywheel both lasted right at 150k, so yours close.

Couldn't find an original clutch and or flywheel so I went with SPEC. I got the xtra mass flywheel and the stage 2 clutch. Its horrible in neutral. Its loud, clunky and a waste of money. I called spec and they gave me BS saying I installed it wrong or didnt have it balanced. Doesnt make sense when I bought their flywheel AND clutch. No need to balance as it was when it was made and packaged. Any who...Worst decision ever..If a company came out with a dual mass so us pretty much stock guys had something to run, they would do really well. Good luck.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:08 PM   #13
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My DM went out, I replaced with a fidanaza, that later got oil soaked because of the rear main seal going bad. I understand you are supposed to have it balanced, but what if your original is not around anymore? I also called spec to see what I should do about the balancing before I put it in and he said " It is balanced from the shop, just unwrap it and throw it in" My Newer Spec I THINK is not good. Its stage 2 so I know its grabby. I have long tubes, no cat, no mufflers and a cam. So I shouldnt be able to hear it but I do. I don't mean to say its a BAD clutch/flywheel set-up, I am just meaning to say I am not happy. What it is supposed to do, it does it well. To say that it closely resembles the original DM, no way ( In my car). I wish I was the guy whos Spec sounds and feels really good.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:17 PM   #14
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I went with Spec for a clutch and flywheel. I haven't heard any rattles yet. Clutch holds so much better and maintains similar feel. If you get one, just know it won't give nice smooth slow take off's until around 1500 miles, but eventually it will be nice and smooth just like the OEM.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rklessdriver View Post
SPEC's stuff is holding up to low 11's @over 127mph in my 92..... As well as weekly drives to work in Washington DC traffic.

I put 7,000 street miles and 55 passes at the drag strip on the car last year (2011). Not so much as a peep from the clutch.

Towards the end of 2010 was when I finally got the motor sorted out enough to drive the car and I managed 2,000 miles and 15 passes, from Aug to Sept - after which my racing season got cut short because the rear end kept breaking....

Me and my trusty SPEC clutch are looking forward to this season opening up in March.
Will
Hard to argue with that!!!
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:43 PM   #16
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Ya almost too good to be true. I smoked a Spec 3+ on my first pass on my supercharged lt1 Trans Am. It never did drive the same. Plus it just takes a quick search to find out about their quality control issues. They sent me a flywheel with the ring gear on crooked then refused to exchange because they insisted I installed it wrong. When I put the stock flywheel back on all issues went away. I swore never to buy from them again.
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:48 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93VettePilot View Post
Ya almost too good to be true. I smoked a Spec 3+ on my first pass on my supercharged lt1 Trans Am. It never did drive the same. Plus it just takes a quick search to find out about their quality control issues. They sent me a flywheel with the ring gear on crooked then refused to exchange because they insisted I installed it wrong. When I put the stock flywheel back on all issues went away. I swore never to buy from them again.
Your pretty close to calling me out here.... So I'll make it easy for you.

Anytime you want to see (in person) if it's really too good to be true - Just let me know when you have a pocket full of $$$. For the right money I'll drive this SOB anywhere, anytime and run anyone.

Otherwise take a look at the 40+ videos of my car on my photobucket.

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...iver/Corvette/

I don't doubt you had a problem with SPEC's stuff. Nobody's perfect and mistakes happen. Hell sometimes companies do anything to accept responsibility for faulty parts. Maybe thats what happend in your case, and if so your certainly entitled to say so.

However that has not been my experience with SPEC. Like I said, if you (or anyone else for that matter) in any way doubt my claims, I'll be happy to enlighten you.
Will
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:00 AM   #18
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Relax, I believe your car does what you say. I just don't want people who read about your fantastic results to believe that Spec is the answer to all their problems. How much would it cost for you to drive to Pakistan? JK LOL My racing clutch of choice would be the McLeod street twin or better yet Turbo 350 Automatic.

Last edited by 93VettePilot; 01-22-2012 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:06 PM   #19
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300 passes at the track with my 520HP/520TQ 396 LT1 on the Spec3+/Camaro SMF. Got tired of replacing the McLeod's and talking with Red every year.

This is a street/strip 94 Corvette. The noise is not an issue. Get it balanced, have a professional do the install and put on the 500 granny miles before abusing it.
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:19 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Red Rocket View Post
300 passes at the track with my 520HP/520TQ 396 LT1 on the Spec3+/Camaro SMF. Got tired of replacing the McLeod's and talking with Red every year.

This is a street/strip 94 Corvette. The noise is not an issue. Get it balanced, have a professional do the install and put on the 500 granny miles before abusing it.
Did you use the McLeod Street Twin or were the McLeod problems you were having with their single disk? I've never heard of any complaints about the McLeod Street Twin for a race car.

Last edited by 93VettePilot; 01-23-2012 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:19 AM
 
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