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Old 01-27-2012, 10:10 PM   #1
elkprairie
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Default Renegade Manifold Installation

I am currently installing a DCS Renegade intake manifold on my 84. The old manifold came off without having to remove the valve covers. However, the DCS manifold will not set into place as it is slightly wider and will not set into place. DCS said it is common to have to remove the valve covers although it is not mentioned in their instructions.

Has anyone who has installed a Renegade manifold had similar problems? This is not the first installation problem I have had with it. Can anyone describe their experience?

Thanks,
Don
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:45 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkprairie View Post
I am currently installing a DCS Renegade intake manifold on my 84. The old manifold came off without having to remove the valve covers. However, the DCS manifold will not set into place as it is slightly wider and will not set into place. DCS said it is common to have to remove the valve covers although it is not mentioned in their instructions.

Has anyone who has installed a Renegade manifold had similar problems? This is not the first installation problem I have had with it. Can anyone describe their experience?

Thanks,
Don
Yep, contact Mr. Thailand. He has total Renegade expertise and one time he installed a radiator 24 hours after his appendix removal surgery. He is one bad **** !

The Renegade Guru
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:35 AM   #3
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Just remove the valve covers.....not a big deal. Good time to swap over to Fel-Pro rubber valve cover gaskets as well....no leaks ever again.
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:10 PM   #4
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did you buy the Renegade intake manifold new or used? i have Moroso brand slicone valve cover gaskets on my 84. they seal like nothing i've used before. the Fel-Pro ribbed silicone gaskets did not seal well on my 84, so i switched to the solid silicone gaskets. nothing bad to say about the Fel-Pro silicone gaskets though. i've used them on several other applications with 100% perfect success.
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:57 PM   #5
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Removing the valve cover gaskets is a great idea unless you did this a year ago and sealed them with permatex. It took me 2 hours to get the driver's side off and that is the easy one. It will probably take me another hour to get the gasket off the valve cover and cleaned up. I am pretty pi$$ed at DCS for not telling this would need to be done.

There are other things they don't tell you like you will have to use all 1" bolts to secure the manifold (the corners are 1.25" and bottom out because the DCS manifold is thinner the the stock at these places.

There is a bracket that bolts to the manifold plate that does not line up either. Anyone considering installing one of these should think twice. It is a huge frustrating job. I have not got to installing the TB's yet. I wonder what other joys await me.
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Old 01-28-2012, 05:55 PM   #6
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Welcome to hotrodding!
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:14 PM   #7
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I'm looking forward to the Renagade manifold being produced again.

--Just part of doing a manifold change. I would not put the blame on DCS.
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:18 PM   #8
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When I first received the manifold around Christmas (when I ordered it in March they said it would be a few months before I got it) I examined it and noticed two of the ports were plugged. After shining a flashlight down them I saw they were plugged with casting material. I suppose I shouldn't blame DCS for this.

I returned the manifold and they cleaned it out and sent it back. When I got it back I put one of the Fel-pro 1205 gaskets on each side to make sure things fit. To my surprise a small part of the EGR port was not covered by the gasket. I called DCS up again and they said something must have slipped during casting. They wanted me to sent it back again. I told them I would put extra sealant around the hole.

I did a dry fit of the manifold (gaskets but no sealant) after removing the valve covers and noticed the bolt holes on one side did not line up. I moved it around and try as I may I could not get bolts in both sides. I tried different gaskets and adjustments but could not get bolts threaded in both sides. I drilled out one side of holes with a 1/2" drill and was able to get bolts in both sides. I suppose I should not blame DCS being 1/16" off on the drilling of the holes.

Having all the holes lined up, I hand screwed in all the bolts. I found I could not get the head of the bolt on the rear passenger side to meet the base of the manifold. This is where the coolant inlet port is located. I will need to find a bolt with a smaller head. I guess I shouldn't expect to use the same bolts that came out of the old manifold on the DCS manifold. You can't blame them.

My advice to anyone thinking of purchasing one of these is to not expect it to fit like the original. Also, you will wait a very long time to get one.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:42 PM   #9
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Me --- Id call them - then - send it back
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:30 PM   #10
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Unfortunetly this is what you run into when you dealing with a small business that has had numerous foundries work on this product. Then add it the fact that 1 of the 2 people last I knew went to another state. From what i understand this is a business that is basically a backyard garage. I've heard nothing but complaints especially when it comes to trying to call or email them.
And I agree all those problems the OP has had are DCS fault.

Its to bad they just don't put there pride aside and sell the mold to someone like Edelbrock. someone that can back up the product and has the resources to produce it.
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:45 PM   #11
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I'm in agreement with gws. A year ago, I called DCS on behalf of another member who lives in another country, was able to talk in person to the owner, and while he was candid about their issues, it seemed to be an issue of not having enough start up money to get a good production going. I realize this doesn't help after the fact that folks have paid for the product. I find it disappointing to hear that there are issues not only with delivery but with the quality and fit of the actual product. Having been a small bus. owner for years, I know that the only thing you really have to sell is the integrety of your product.
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:59 PM   #12
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Thank you for your replies. DCS has contacted me and offered a refund. However, I don't want a refund, I want a new manifold; I waited 9 months for the manifold. When I asked them when they would have another ready, they said they didn't know. What ticks me off is that they say I am the first customer (out of 100) to have any problems with installation. I just can't believe this. My latest adventure in manifold installation was just getting the bolts screwed in as a test fit. They made the casting too close to the bolt hole where the coolant enters the manifold. I could not get a socket over the end of the bolt to tighten it. I had to Dremel away part of the manifold around the hole and take a grinder to my 9/16" socket to make the socket narrow enough to fit between the bolt head and casting to tighten the bolt. They must have 0 quality control; especially when they don't even look down the ports to make sure they cleaned out all the casting.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:47 PM   #13
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I bought one of the early castings and I have never installed an intake before. I had to remove one valve cover to install the intake. It took me 2 evenings to install it. I didn't have lights in the garage and it got dark early. Everything seemed to fit and I had no problems except my timing was out that took a little fiddling and I also made my fuel pressure adjustable. One other problem I had was getting my distributor to sit properly. I wouldn't drop down until I turned it a little bit with a long screw driver down inside. It ran poorly at first timing was out and the fuel pressure was to low. I now have the timing set at 12 and the fuel pressure at 15 psi. It now runs great and the crossfire really doesn't need the swirl veins. It does run a little quicker than stock. I learned alot about my crossfire but it was stressful worrying whether I sealed it up correctly but it went smooth the first time.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:18 PM   #14
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Yeah, lining up the oil pump drive can be a pain.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-x-fire View Post
Welcome to hotrodding!

That describes installing about any aftermarket part. Few if any are truly 100% bolt on.

Valve cover issue is common with many intakes made for the sbc over the yrs. Be patient, what youre doing is a huge huge upgrade.
Be sure to post pics and butt o meter impressions.

If I had a CFI Id stick one on in a hearbeat.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkprairie View Post
Removing the valve cover gaskets is a great idea unless you did this a year ago and sealed them with permatex. It took me 2 hours to get the driver's side off and that is the easy one. It will probably take me another hour to get the gasket off the valve cover and cleaned up. I am pretty pi$$ed at DCS for not telling this would need to be done.

There are other things they don't tell you like you will have to use all 1" bolts to secure the manifold (the corners are 1.25" and bottom out because the DCS manifold is thinner the the stock at these places.

There is a bracket that bolts to the manifold plate that does not line up either. Anyone considering installing one of these should think twice. It is a huge frustrating job. I have not got to installing the TB's yet. I wonder what other joys await me.
I agree with the "Welcome to Hotrodding" comment. Quite often performance parts take patience and ingenuity to make them fit and work. I had to remove both of my valve covers and grind the edges of the covers to get my Accel manifold to fit. It wasn't a big deal and I didn't think twice about it. As for your bolts, just buy some 3/8 head intake manifold bolts. If you think this is a "huge frustrating job", you better quit after this is over or have someone else do the work for you. Hotrodding should be fun and challenging. Horsepower doesn't come out of a box.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:10 AM   #17
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WOW! Where do I start? To all that are reading this post... We, (DCS) have gone out of our way to help Don out. We have talked to him on numerous occasions and have been "more" than willing to refund his money in "full", all he had to do was pull the trigger and we'd make that happen. We also said we would pay at our expense for "all" shipping back and forth...Please don't make us out to be the bad guys, ok, it's not fair to us when you do that and make this look one sided.

Anyone that has been in business or is currently in business knows that you can't make 100% of the people happy, 100% of the time, but we do try.

This is a rather straight forward job and we did try and cover most bases in the instructions, but we also figured that most of the people that would do this task would have the experience to do the job with little or no help from instructions anyway. We can't make them 100% fool proof no matter what, nobody can...sorry.

For reference, here is a "direct quote" from our instructions:

NOTE: PLEASE study these guidelines carefully before attempting this installation. This removal and installation can be accomplished with common hand tools (with the exception of torque and fitting/line wrenches) and good mechanic practices. However, you should be familiar with and be comfortable working on your vehicle. If you do not feel comfortable performing this removal and installation process, it is highly recommended to have the installation process completed by a qualified automotive mechanic or a reputable automotive shop. If you have any questions, please call us.

What can I say. Anyone can download these instructions and read this for themselves.

You have had some rather crazy issues with your manifold I agree and they are not the norm I assure you, again we said we would give you a full refund at your request if you were not happy, you didn't.

Yours to date is the only one with the issues you are having except the valve covers being a tad close. The plenum area is 20% greater than stock and we did plan for that in the pattern making process, but anomalies do exist from motor to motor and we can't plan for everything that might happen. We have had three or four customers say that as well, but after loosening them up or removing them they were good to go, no big deal.

The pics you sent us with the cover issue were nice and thanks. You obviously had some really leaky covers evidenced by all the oil and grime covering the block. I for one wouldn't have glued down my valve covers to make them seal vs. doing it the right way, but that's just me.

As for qws (slrvette) and his comments, really dude? quote...

Unfortunetly this is what you run into when you dealing with a small business that has had numerous foundries work on this product. Then add it the fact that 1 of the 2 people last I knew went to another state. From what i understand this is a business that is basically a backyard garage. I've heard nothing but complaints especially when it comes to trying to call or email them.
And I agree all those problems the OP has had are DCS fault.

Its to bad they just don't put there pride aside and sell the mold to someone like Edelbrock. someone that can back up the product and has the resources to produce it.


WOW again! You seem to know more about our business and lives than we do, awesome! However, this speaks volumes of you and how little you really know about what we are doing and about the manufacturing process and how complicated creating a manifold really is. Maybe we should call you and get some advise/tips on how to run a business. I'm sure you have all the answers handy.

It's pretty easy to sit back and start criticizing isn't it? Riddle me this...When was the last time you did anything to help or make a major impact in a meaningful way for the CF world except being a keyboard commando on the forums...Huh? Tell me, I'm all ears. I'd be careful what you say about DCS as well, we are a business. Jus sayin'.

It's always amazes me that there are always a handful of people on the various forums that have nothing better to do with their life but than to stir things up just because; they always want to take a jab at you, It's sad, you know who you are.

This is one reason why we don't go to the forums anymore, they are not what they used to be. Now it's always the same people with the same bla, bla, bla... I just happened on this one tonight for the first time in a very long time, wish I hadn't now that I found this. I was right though, its the same few people with the same jabs and bla, bla...

Don, my guess is that we'll be giving you a call tomorrow to discuss all this. We've been waiting for your return call liked we talked about last week, so we'd know what we needed to do, but you never responded and came here instead to vent. Thanks for your support and have a great day.

Last edited by Buccaneer; 02-08-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:43 AM   #18
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if you are a mfr being visible on the boards is a good thing

puts rumors to rest informs anf builds trust id think.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:12 AM   #19
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I agree.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
Its to bad they just don't put there pride aside and sell the mold to someone like Edelbrock. someone that can back up the product and has the resources to produce it.
For what it is worth Edelbrock is not interested. The market is too small for them - that is what they have told us. We have however dropped off the tooling to a company in Ontario Cal last week. We are working with them on the manufactruing of the Renegade. Hopefully our discussions will bear some good fruit.

Hey qws (slrvet or whatever) - you would not believe the number of aluminum cans we have to gather and melt down to make a Renegade in our "backyard garage". I try to stay away from Chineese beer - too much slag floats to the top for my liking. I think the Renegades come out pretty good. But that is me.

Next rock please.....

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