Shock96

Ok, so in the continuing saga of the lock cylinder replacement, I am still stuck with a car that won't turn off. Here is what I have done:

New lock cylinder. I know the VATS now.
Replaced the ignition switch down on the column that is actuated by the rod.

Tested it, still won't turn the car off. (Car is not actually starting due to no VATS key, but the car stays fully powered).

I removed the switch, the harness still attached, and used a small screwdriver to slide the switch mechanism from LOCK to RUN to START. Works fine. Move it back to LOCK and the car stays on.

Now this is not with the key/cylinder. Just the electrical switch itself.

I can't seem to find anything on this issue. None of the Corvette shops that I have called know or have even seen it happen before. Dealers are the same.

If I pull the battery cable, the car does turn off.

Does anyone have any ideas at all? Otherwise, you will be able to buy parts off of it shortly.

Thanks!

Kmcoldcars

Consult with Tom Wong in Vancouver. He is extremely knowledgeable about Corvettes and is a very nice guy. You can find him on the Northwest Regional Forum. tjwong is his forum name. Also, you can talk with Dan at Corvettes of Auburn.

Shock96

Roger that. I called C of A but Dan had already jetted out for the long weekend. I am going to put the old switch back in tomorrow and see if it works or not just for kicks.

I will also try Tom. I forgot about calling him.

Thanks!

Cliff Harris

Are you talking about the engine or all of the electrical systems in the car (radio, instrument cluster, etc.)?

Shock96

It is just the electrical systems of the car.

The first new ignition cylinder was defective, but was working when it started acting up. When the electrical system doesn't shutdown, the car will not start even with the correct VATS signal being provided.

I have a new cylinder, but I am not using it yet. Just turning the pawl sticking out that the cylinder engages.

Also, the electrical systems don't shutoff even when engaging the switch itself.

vetteoz

Have you confirmed the power output is being shut off when switch is not in the RUN or START position?

superdave269

I wish I could help. My son's crown vic (old police car) had same problem. I pulled off the battery cable to shut it down. Something was broke in his column that we could not figure out. Ended up replacing the column with one out of a junk yard. I could not have him keep taking off a battery lead, sooner or later the battery could of blown up from the gasses they vent.

Hooked on Vettes

This isn't your problem but the 92 has the Delayed Accessories Bus.
The Radio and Power Windows will have power to them for up to 15 minutes
after the ignition is turned off. Opening the drivers door will disable the power.

Here's a diagram of the ignition switch.

The two Red wires are Hot all the time and feed
the ignition switch.

With the ignition switch Off you should have zero volts
on the following wires at the ignition switch connector plug.

Brown wire
Orange wire
Pink wire
Yellow wire.

If you still have 12 volts on one of the wires,
which wire is it?

Shock96

Hmm. I don't know. I will check that when I get the gumption tomorrow. Thanks and keep the ideas comin'!

Shock96

Ok, got a replacement switch. Same issue.

The dash lights are on, the radio works, the heater fan is off.

Now, with everything powered up as listed above, I pulled the switch from the harness. Everything stayed the same. No difference.

So I pulled the CCM/ECM codes.

CCM - C41 and H41
ECM - ERR

So that leads me to believe either a bad ECM or possibly a ground issue.

I have read all the threads on the CCM/ECM communication issues and none list the symptom of the car not powering down.

Are they related? Would a lack of communication between CCM and ECM cause this issue? Could it be they are both symptoms of a ground issue?

A ground issue seems most likely to me. Where would be the first ground to clean up?

Thanks everyone.

Hooked on Vettes

When you turned the ignition off if you
open the door does the radio power off?

What do you mean the dash lights are on?

The LCD is still On and data is still being
displayed in the LCD even though you pulled
the harness off the ignition switch?

As for the ECM not communicating with the CCM
Short pin A to pin B on the diagnostic connector
above the driver right knee. Turn the ignition On.
The ECM should turn on the radiator fan and
flash via the Service Engine Soon indicator 12 three
times any DTC codes if there are any three times then
12 three times again.

If the ECM can't flash 12 then there is a problem
with it. Only thing you can do is verify power
is getting to it.

Shock96

With the ignition off, the door open, the radio has power.

The LCD is on, INFL REST, Security plus a couple others are on. DIC buttons change the display as per usual.

I will try the pin short tomorrow. I assume that it is a different test than just shorting the G pin on the ACDL?

Hooked on Vettes

When you short Pin A to Pin B on the diagnostic connector
you are pulling codes directly from the ECM.

When you short Pin A to Pin G you are pulling codes from
the ECM using the CCM.

When you disconnect the wiring at the Ignition Switch
and the dash lights stay on, that indicates power is still
getting to one of the wires at the Ignition switch.

With the harness disconnected you need to find out which
wire still has 12 volts.

This will tell you what circuit is causing the problem.

When you turn the ignition Off and the dash lights stay on,
disconnect the harness at the Ignition Switch.

With a volt meter measure what voltage is on the Brown wire,
Orange wire, Pink wire and Yellow wire. They all should measure
zero. The one that measures 12 volts is causing the problem.

The two Red wires at the connector are Hot all the time and feed
the Ignition switch.

*************************************
If you still have 12 volts on one of the wires,
which wire is it?
*************************************


[/QUOTE]

It appears someone has added some additional wiring from this
picture you posted. The Blue wire appears to be tapping into the
Yellow wire. Have you traced the Blue wire and if so, where does
it go?

Shock96

Thanks a bunch HOV. I will go test these stuff now.

The blue wire is spliced in and is just hanging not connected to anything. There was a white wire grounded on the knee bolster bolt, but I think it was to provide a ground for the CCM/ECM testing when needed.

That blue wire is spliced in to the delay accessory relay. I also pulled that relay just to see if it turned off anything, but of course it didn't.

Shock96

Ok, here are the results:

Brown reads .22v
Yellow reads .05v
Pink reads 12.66v
Orange read .13v

Both red read 12.8v or so. The thin black wire reads 0 (ground?).
But the TAN wire right above the black (also thin) reads 12.65v.

When I jumper A to B and try the test, nothing happens. I get no flashing as described nor does the radiator fan kick on.

When you say 12 3 times, you mean the SES light will flash 12 times then 3 times? Or is it a readout that flashes the number 12 a total of 3 times?

Either way it isn't doing anything.

Cliff Harris

This will tell you how to pull the error codes and what they mean:

http://corvettephotographs.com/c4vettes/codes.htm
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1576116036-post35.html