fc_soldier

It sucks to accept but I cant call zenith. And tell them my 1995 Big Screen doesn't meet the standard of the new LG LED TV. Than say build a market for it.

I miss that TV. All 300 lbs of it.

fc_soldier

Like you said and others.... You can have it built. Gotta pay to play. Having a 700rwhp vette I think a custom header could be arranged. Id like to see the bends in that header cause that stuff is tightttttt.

dizwiz24

On the flipside, the apollo moon rocket (of the 60's) was a better space ship than the space shuttle.

dizwiz24

An appropriate finale to this discussion would be to note that GM chose to name the new C7 corvette motor the 'LT1' vs. continuing on with the 'LSx' series.

So they must have realized some 'strengths' to the design and brought it back. (at least in name).

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2012/...vive-lt1-name/

The Highlander

This is the main reason...

theseal

c4 is actually suffering only from a couple of problems... no good intakes, no good headers, and floppy frame.

other than that I prefer c4 over ANY other vette.

today you can get AFR stock location 23 degree heads that flow 350 cfm - like ported LS7 heads... so 700 pump gas motors are possible. the gen 1 design is not as 'optimized' as the LS, but experience trumps modernity and the small block chevy can be built to be just about as powerful and reliable as an LSX now that heads like that are available.

so, where to get 2" primary c4 headers again?

and intakes?

rklessdriver

I have a set of 2" primary 23* sbc headers being made at Stahl Headers right now. They are the Stahl spreadport flange. Cost was $1685.00 shipped.
Will

SurfnSun

Citing a one-off $400k car that was built in the 80s as rationale for your position isn't really that good.

The Sledgehammer didn't "easily" do 254mph, it was a long intense build that wasn't done in a couple of weeks or even a couple of months. Google the value of $400k in 1988 vs today's money...depending on the calculator you use its between $677k and $1.2m

Additionally, C4 owners don't spend much money comparative to C6 owners and now a dwindling group of C5 modding owners. The cars just aren't worth the investment. It takes a stroker gen1/2 sbc to make as much peak power as a head-cam LSx.

I love C4's as much as anyone here, but the only real money Id spend on a C4 would be a Callaway twin turbo Areobody or a ZR-1. Not b/c they are world beating fast, but just b.c they are cool and that's what I happen to like. If going ultra fast was my end goal, Id move to a C5Z and start modding.

theseal

hey, thanks! I may call them and see if they can do multiple sets.

i assume you have to use a flange adapter to seal the center?

theseal

i think the c4 is a better platform in many respects than the c5-7, and I've had many of each.

the 84-87 suspension geometry is certainly better for performance than the later platforms. the c5-7 has too much antidive/squat, mostly for pothole comfort rather than performance, and the camber and toe curves are far from ideal. There is not enough ackermann for tight turns....I have actual measurements on all that.... that is one reason for all the axle hop the later cars have.

don't get me wrong, the c5z is an outstanding handling car if you disable the electronics, but its only real advantage over the c4 is simplicity - fewer,more rigid parts.

however, to make it work right, the c4 needs a cage extending to each wheel center on the frame, so that's work. but if you do, you'll have a hell of a great handling car.

still, an early c4 with basic race stuff like carbon seats, etc., and a cage, will still weigh the same or less than a c5-7, is just as aerodynamic, and has a lot less frontal area, so yes, the c4 has at least as high a performance potential.

take your $7k c4, and spend $5k on brakes and a cage, and $20k on a motor and peripherals, and you have one hell of a car. but its still only worth $10k if you want to sell it.

Aaron Keating

A C5Z will curb stomp most modded C4s including those with cages.
For one the chassis starts out 3x stiffer than the C4.
That suspension you mention is set up far better, on variable camber corners, and multi grade surfaces.

A prepped Great SHape 84 Z51 will pull a G on the skid pad... but it's rough roads cornering ability is greatly reduced.

A C5Z pulls Over A G, out of the box on the same skid pad, and handles MUCH better over rough roads, and off camber corners. Anything but a flat bottom corner, the C5Z (even C5 Z51) will wipe a C4 in the corners.

While the C4 makes you feel like a hero because of all the visceral and Raw Feedback, it's also incredibly demanding to drive at the limits. The same limits that a C5 feels like it's barely breaking a sweat over.

A C5, might have the same drag coefficient (actually it has a better one) but it also produces much more down force than a C4.

Let alone the pony potential. Enough can't be said about the power of the LSX as a platform to build on. Getting away from the LS1 and LS6.. let's just talk the L92 for a second. This is an all aluminum engine (woo!) it makes 403 horse out of a Escalade. It has a mechanical fan. It's also detuned compared to the 6.2 out of say a Camaro or GTO. It makes 403 ponies on Truck Manifolds, Truck Exhaust and a Mechanical fan.

It takes Work to get an LTX to even touch 400 ponies in the first place... best part? for around 3500 you can get your hands on an L92, that comes with ECM wiring, accessories the works.

The LSX gives Tons of Power for Cheap compared to roiding up a Gen 1 engine. And the LTX was never that popular as a hot rod swap engine in the first place because of the expense versus power gained compared to even a Gen 1 engine. The LSX's electronic side of things is also light years beyond the LTX while being WAY easier to work with for tuners.

I'd go LSX myself for the C4. But I have a Gen 3 Camaro, there's ALOT less splicing of wires together involved to make everything to work on a Gen 3 F body with an LSX swap. Plus in my case the TPI intake just looks bad ***.

Don't get me wrong, in the Bang for Buck sense of the word, the C4 is one of the best hot rods out there. You get one hell of a good car for the money spent with a C4. And for it's day, in Handling at least there wasn't really anything on the road in the 80s that could touch it. (90s is a different story all together) but time has marched forward. As it should.

theseal

as i mentioned the c4 needs a cage, but if you have one, disagree on the rough road and frankly all handling issues, and I've won SCCA nationals in both.

the c4 puts down power WAY better than the later cars. rough or smooth. early c4 (88 and later are not as good) has better camber curves and ackermann as well.

if i build my car, we'll all have a chance to see for sure!

Aaron Keating

I can pretty safely say, a 240 horse engine in a C5Z would probably never even break traction without cutting the wheel good and hard.

C4 not so much.

There's a reason the C5 is feared on track day. (the C6 even more so. and the C6 is just a revised C5. Better Engine, brakes, and in the later years the mag shocks... which are god sends)

BrianCunningham

That's the guy that built mine.

He can hook you up with whatever you want.

BlowerWorks also supports the Ltx and L98 platforms

theseal

well, i wasnt talking about a stock engine....

given equal power, the c4 will put it down better than a later car, and in tight turns, given equal tires, will generate more front end grip. it is inherent in the design. Don't get me wrong, the later cars are great too, and better 'out of the box', but the c4 is way under appreciated.

as an example, we used to kill people all day long with about a 330 hp c4, as it would cut 1.6 60 foots all day long with 275/17 r compounds on it, every time, anywhere, and it would basically roast anybody's c6z out to the 1/8 mile mark. i don't know too many c6z's that would do that unless set up specifically to drag race.

theseal

awesome! question though, what will it run off the gas?

I'm really looking for nearly 140 mph 1/4 speeds on pump gas, all motor....car in the 2850 lb range... tall order but certainly doable.

rklessdriver

Yes the Stahl flange requires an adapter.... not a big deal as every 23* SBC drag racing engines with big headers runs them.

The new Stahl Headers come with the adapters.
Will

BrianCunningham

He's had it down in the 10's w/o spray.

He works over at theBowTieShop.com

Give him a call and see what he has to say.

Sleazy Rider

and the lt1 was a redesignating of the lt-1 from 1970-1972, a solid lifter high performance high revving engine.

STL94LT1

As much as I love my LT1 you just can't compare our horsepower output potential to an LS engine. Go to the C5 or C6 FI sections and you will see a few completely stock long blocks putting out 700 rwhp and many putting out 600+. Are there any LTx's at any stage of modification on this forum putting out that kind of HP?