Michelle Robertson

Hi,

I am posting for a friend who has a 1988 corvette. He bought a transmission online which was supposed to be for an 88 corvette. The transmission however has a 5 pin connector and his has a 4 pin (actually 3 pin, one is a dummy hole).

The company insists it is the correct transmission & that he needs to use his old wiring harness on the the new transmission. Is this even possible? And is there any way to tell if they sent the wrong year transmission? Shouldn't an 88 have come with the same connector?

Thank you in advance.

WVZR-1

I believe you've ended up with a '93 transmission that likely has an extra internal switch but it would require checking visually the valve body by pulling the pan. I would think there is likely a work around but I do believe it would need inspected first. Maybe the transmission just has the incorrect harness installed and the switch isn't in the transmission so you could use the 3 wires you have by swapping them to a 5 pin connector but only using the appropriate ports.

I'll try to find a couple images. I hope I've not confused you. Who is installing the transmission? A shop?

It may be able to be accomplished doing something like this:



I'm looking a little further into this. I have never done it personally but I believe I understand it. Will the vendor if you substantiate some of this reimburse you?

I believe you only need a connector like this and then use the A - B - D wires from your original connector. You could buy this connector locally but I just used this link to show you what I believe could work. I would think if you had snapshots to show the vendor they may understand and comment on the fix. I would only consider it after they acknowledged what is wrong and why you're concerned.

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...spx?ItemId=562

There's either an extra switch in your valve body for 3d gear OR there's just a dangling connector where the switch would be. Only removing the pan would answer the questions.

Michelle Robertson

___________________________________

Thank you. This is very helpful info in the event we have to make this one work. I thought it was a 93 from the start just from the research I have done online. I will pass this information along to the mechanic who is installing the transmission. He will understand it better, I'm sure!!


Because of the additional expense, my friend was hoping to just return this transmission (based on the fact that he thought he was buying one that could be installed without any additional work, wiring or cost) but the company is insisting that it is the correct transmission for his car & they will only return it if he pays shipping & a 20% restocking fee. I was hoping there was some way to prove that its for a 93 & not an 88.

It's all very confusing. So, the transmission he bought is most likely a 4L60E & not a 700R4? And is there a way to prove it? Like I said, he was expecting to be able to install the new one with no problem.

And no, the company is not willing to reimburse for any of the additional expense. Plus, he is afraid that once they start messing with it, it will void the warranty. The transmission itself could be no good for all we know. So that is another big concern. Returning it getting one with the same connector is is definitely the best option at this point.

Michelle Robertson

Not sure if it makes any difference but it's an automatic transmission.

vetteoz

The T700 / 4L60 has a " kickdown " cable on pass side

The fully electronic 4L60E doesn't

Although they fit up the same ,they are not interchangeable because the E version is controlled by the PCM ( computer )
there is nothing to control it in a '88

WVZR-1

It is NOT a 4L60E but technically it is a '92 - '93 only transmission IF the switches are on the valve body to match the 5 pin connector. It would take removal of the pan and snapshot of the valve body to "prove" it was that.

I may be able to supply images. I'll try.

Did your friend pay with a credit card?

Michelle Robertson

He paid with a pre-paid debit visa. I'll tell the mechanic this so he can check it. Thank you so much!

Hooked on Vettes

One solution is to purchase the external 5 pin plug that plugs into the new transmission 5 pin connector.

All the mechanic needs to do is install the transmission then splice 3 wires from the new 5 pin plug pigtail wires to your existing 3 wires from your original 4 pin harness plug that goes to the trans. No need to remove the transmission pan.

Save the old connector in case you ever need to go back to a 4 pin connector plug.

The plugs have the alpha letters embossed in them so you can tell which is Pin A-E.

Your vehicle 4 pin connector only uses Pin A, B and D.

Pin A on four pin connector to Pin A on the new 5 pin plug.
Pin B on the four pin plug to Pin B on the new 5 pin plug.
Pin D on the four pin plug to Pin D on the new 5 pin plug.

On the 5 pin connector you don't need/use the wires on Pins C and E.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/92-93-Corvette-Camaro-4L60-Torque-Converter-TCC-Wiring-Harness-Connector-/370615157500?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item564a6282fc&vxp=mtr

WVZR-1

It would seem that if all was in order the vendor would have mentioned and understood the concern and offered up instructions to use the transmission and rewire the TCC.

It might be interesting to have a conversation with the bank and VISA in regards to their position with purchase protection with the debit card. If you do post back.

It will involve a physical inspection of the original valve body to confirm what you've actually got and compare it to the valve body that is in the replacement. Switches need to be in the same locations and wired appropriately.

Aside from the connector is the exterior appearance the same? The extension housing is a concern, it needs to be just like the one in the image in the post a couple up. Ask your mechanic to use a light and check the speedometer drive gear in the transmission you've purchased. Ask him the color. You need it to be red. It's wise to check first anyway just to be sure it's installed. Was it supplied with a converter?

WVZR-1

Precisely what I mentioned in post #2 BUT I believe it's important that it has the appropriate valve body internally with only the appropriate switches wired. If the valve body had the additional switches and they were wired I believe I'd have to assume I might have issues.

I mentioned that maybe all is well but it would require an inspection of the internals.

You feel that regardless of the valve body internally and the switch make up it would make "no difference" and just wire it and drive off?

Michelle Robertson

is the exterior appearance the same? Yes exactly the same.

Ask your mechanic to use a light and check the speedometer drive gear in the transmission you've purchased. Ask him the color. You need it to be red: He did this & it is red.

Was it supplied with a converter?[/QUOTE] I'm not sure, I think so.


I showed the mechanic the information you gave us. He thinks that will work & is the first thing he has heard thus far that makes sense. He said to say thank you & tell you are a lifesaver.

My friend, however, (who owns the corvette) is still a little hesitant & is kind of still leaning towards the return. We have had several conversations with the vendor about the connectors being different & they insist it is the right part & that they don't provide wiring harnesses & that we should be able to use the existing one from the old transmission. Here is the email from them after the last conversation:

Michelle,

As per our conversation on 4/16/2014 you informed me that you would like to return the transmission you purchased due to the fact that the wiring harness on it is different than yours. The international database shows that all automatic transmissions for a Corvette between the years of 1984 and 1993 are the same exact part. In terms of the wiring harness our website states that we do not supply or warranty any wiring harnesses or solenoids. We are more than happy to issue a refund if you would like to return the transmission. To receive a refund we just need you to send the transmission back to us. Upon return we will issue you the refund minus a 20% restocking fee as per our terms of service. If you have any questions or need information for the return please feel free to contact me via email or phone. Thank you.


So obviously my friend did not want to have to pay the shipping & restocking fee which would be more than the cost of making this one work.

drive it

What's the company's name?

WVZR-1

The email you received from them is something I guess to be concerned with. Part of the transmission build is the pressure switches, and the TCC solenoid and harness that they've supplied and the email states "not covered". Their reference to the data-base is incorrect for sure. I believe the email not very well thought out on their part. I can't imagine someone that sold a part of that value that wouldn't just have supplied you a $20 connector, mentioned how to wire it and moved on.

What happens if you've a problem after install? Sounds like it could certainly be an issue.

Since you were supplied a transmission that is NOT a "direct-fit" and their email seems to state that it is they've little to argue there.

I'd call the bank and ask about the recourse through VISA.

These are the possibilities:

1. Buy the connector and wire it as I or "Hooked on Vettes" mentioned and drive off.

2. Remove pan and confirm that there are maybe just the appropriate switches wired (you should find 2 wires taped back or cut off). The problem with this approach is that if you're not happy with what you find and elect to return they'll argue you removed the pan and there's no return.

3. Use your friends old valve body if it's substantially different and have it cleaned and inspected, switch the harness. That would maybe require a local shop if your mechanic wasn't comfortable with the task. You would need a couple gaskets.

4. Remove the pan of the transmission and take snapshots of the valve body with the wiring and if all of the wires are connected to additional switches ask a local builder if just using a new connector and eliminating the two wires required will cause problems so that you can use the three wires of the car. This would confirm that #1 would work.

5. Get the price of the valve body clean and the transfer to the transmission and use that price as a negotiating tool with the vendor.

Does the car still drive with the transmission that's in it?

You've not mentioned location and maybe it's not important but if someone saw the thread that's in the vicinity maybe they're familiar with a shop that's close that you could ask for advice.

You know what shipping and the 20% handling is so maybe you could use a portion of that to confirm by a shop that it's an OK replacement with whatever.

The email from them leaves a person wondering what about the warranty. What was the warranty stated with the purchase? Is it in writing? Is it implied on their website? What does the invoice mention exactly?

There are first class vendors that sell transmissions and then there are ............... It seems your friend's choice hasn't turned out well.

Their email stating that all are the same from there data-base could be also something to be concerned with. After '87 the 700R4/4L60 would have an auxiliary valve body and I'd not want to think that they supplied an earlier without one.

What to do?

Here is an eBay link that will show you how to confirm that the case is for an auxiliary valve body without removing the pan. There's also an ID shown which could be used to tell what the "CASE ONLY" was originally for. That doesn't make the build a "no fit" but it could tell us a good bit about the potential build. If that build information is on that pad post it back and I believe I can ID it. This information might answer al of your question.

http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-ID-TH...7605933/g.html

Hooked on Vettes

Obviously the information from the transmission seller isn't 100% accurate. 84 and earlier 700r4's had a different input shaft spline count.

The shift points, shift firmness, larger servo piston and if the trans shifts into 4th gear at WOT are some of the differences in a Corvette trans.

The Corvette's output shaft was about .5 inches shorter than non Corvette transmissions. In a non Corvette transmission most people cut off the extra .5 inches with a chop saw. If you don't do this I suppose it could cause a drive shaft bind if the rear axle flexes to much but people have said they have installed a trans with a longer output shaft and had no problems.

The Model/Type of the original 700R4 and new 4l60 hasn't been mentioned. That info will determine how the valve body wiring harness is wired internally.

I've posted a picture of how a 93 Corvette Type 22 is wired and how the wires are connected at the ECM end.

What may be different between the two transmissions being discussed
is the 4th gear pressure switch whether it's Normally open or Normally Closed. That can be determined by using an ohm meter and verifying if there is continuity from the transmission case to Pin B. If they are different the 4th gear pressure switch would have to be installed in the 93 trans. No wiring harness modifications would be needed.

Also not mentioned is the position of the clip that holds the speedometer drive gear must be in the proper recess hole in the output shaft shown in the picture below.

.

WVZR-1

The connector doesn't make it anything in particular, it's only an issue depending on what's found inside. The owner/mechanic can confirm the output shaft length and make decisions regarding that. If it has the "longer" output shaft it's another physical difference that makes the argument stronger with the seller for a return with no shipping or handling fees. I would think the best option for the owner is the return maybe even if they needed to pay "something". It's been an experience many can learn from.

I'd talk to the bank!

The ID of the case might be another thing that needs discussed.



The arrow in the smaller image is the casting in the case that would ID a case that was correct for an '88 build (aux VB) and the other image if that information is still legible would indicate what the case is for starters, it doesn't mean squat for the internals but it would be a good to know. If the number showed it was a much earlier trans with no aux VB it's another piece of information on their side. If it turned out to be maybe a 4.3 case that doesn't mean that's what it is internaly but then again you wouldn't know unless it was disassembled.

Michelle Robertson

There are no numbers on it at all the mechanic said. I just filed a dispute with the credit card company. It's not a real credit card it's a prepaid card so I don't know how it will play out. I have to send them any supporting documentation I have. Any suggestions on what I should send to help make my case?

WVZR-1

Take a snapshot of the connector, the smaller image in my last post shows a casting on the case that would indicate it's correct with an AUX Valve Body, if the casting isn't there that would be an indicator of the no fit also. Take a snapshot of the rear of the transmission showing the output shaft and measure the length of the excess that is beyond the seal, that would indicate whether or not it's a correct output shaft as built like "Hooked on Vettes" mentioned. Post all of the snapshots and let's take a look at them.

Perhaps someone has a correct 700R4 on the floor and they could post a snapshot of the output shaft and the dimension extending beyond the seal for comparison.

Has the mechanic doing the work seen the images I posted? Have you actually had your eyes on the transmission? I asked earlier if the car drove "as it is" and you never answered. Is it disassembled presently or just waiting. The email where the vendor mentions that they're all the same is likely important.

What did the bank say? Not VISA but the bank!

I believe that a Corvette output shaft will be something very near 1/8" beyond the seal. If it had a conventional 2WD shaft I would expect something in the vicinity of 3/4" beyond the seal, maybe a bit more.

MrWillys

I'd install it, and wire it per this thread and drive the car. It would be more trouble to return it than to rewire a damn plug!

vetteoz

]

Michelle Robertson

The old transmission is out of the car already. It would only go in first & second gear nothing higher. That was the reason for the replacement.

The mechanic hasn't seen today's pics but saw everything up to yesterday. I will try to get those pictures for you by tomorrow.

He used my Netspend pre-paid visa & just loaded the money on it. https://www.netspend.com/prepaid-deb...Exact+netspend. I don't even know who the bank is.

**UPDATE***
My friend is starting to lean towards buying the connector & wiring it as you & Hooked on Vettes suggested. Should he order the connector from this link you originally supplied http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...spx?ItemId=562
or this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/92-93-Corvette-Camaro-4L60-Torque-Converter-TCC-Wiring-Harness-Connector-/370615157500?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item564a6282fc&vxp=mtr ?

Are they the same thing? Sorry I am so confused at this point! I just want to make sure he gets the right thing. Is there anything else he needs to get?

I will post the pictures you wanted as soon as I can.

Thank you!