volkswagens-for-life

Long story, shortest way possible.

Car consistently has 11.1 to 11.8 volts when I go to drive it on weekends. 99% of the time it starts right up. Then the 1% of the time it doesn't, like yesterday, it's random.

The starter doesn't click. The car doesn't try to start. Nothing is ever left on. The second I stick a jumper cable to it, it starts right up.

Brand new battery. Brand new starter. Runs 13.7 volts when on.

A month ago on a different new battery the car wouldn't hold a charge for more than an hour of being turned off, but would drive around all day fine. Since the new battery I've never had this problem. It's been in the 40s during the day.

So my question. It seems that the starter doesn't even engage. Is there a sensor of some sort that will disable the starter from even trying to start? The car always starts with 11.1 to 11.2 volts. Yesterday with 11.1 volts it didn't even TRY to crank.

dave_85

Check battery terminals ground connection at the frame. Do you have a quick disconnect for your battery?

leesvet

volkswagens-for-life

I do not have a quick disconnect yet. And I did notice a few weeks ago the positive terminal was lose and I have since tightened it. Not lose right now.

jv9999

You should have something close to 12V all the time. Nothing below 11.7. Something is wrong, likely a bad cable or ground (or a bad meter). There is a starter enable relay behind the dash. I'm guessing this isn't closing when it doesn't start (you should hear is click, it's above the radio).

pkincy

As above. Do you hear the click then no crank or just nothing?

I am running into the intermittent click, no crank on my 93 F Body. There is a host of places that the connection/ground can be bad.

However with less then 12 volts showing I would chase that down first.

volkswagens-for-life

I hear absolutely no click when it doesn't start. I NEVER have problems starting w/ 11.1 volts or more though. And I never get the "click click click" of the starter. And I dont get any click of the relay. Just absolute silence when trying.

Tom400CFI

Although at rest, your car should have more than 11.x volts, it should start fine w/11+volts.

Start at the starter and work your way back. When the symptom occurs, do you have power to the small wire on the starter solenoid? (Probably not), but start there, work your way back.

Or going the other direction, probe the "crank" wire coming out of the ignition switch down the column...do you have power there? If so, more on to the next item...

Cliff Harris

What year is the car? We need to know if you have VATS or not.

MavsAK

Check the connections behind the battery. The nut on the post may have worked itself loose. It would do exactly what you're going through now.

volkswagens-for-life

Agreed that even though voltage is far from optimal, it has PLENTY to start the car or at minimum click-click-click the starter. Everything else on the car works; radio is loud, headlights are bright as the Charles Dickens, lights on the dash/information center etc.

Its a 1987. I will attach my signature.

Which connections behind the battery?? Where the power cable actually splices into on the opposite end of the battery? IF so, still strange that I have full stereo power, headlamp power etc.

MavsAK

The whole post for all of the leads behind the battery beneath the relays. If the nut's loose some of your stuff can work and other things like the Starter won't. It's all held down by one nut. I'd remove them one by one and clean them too while you are back there if you've never done it. It's had 20 years or more to get the crap built up.

volkswagens-for-life

Ohhhh I see!! Will I have to remove anything to get to that relay behind the battery? I'm excited to give this a try.

hooked073

if I am understanding what you wrote as soon as you touch the cables to it it starts. That elimates vats I think it also elimates starter if that is the only thing you are doing and it starts you need to check your battery ground both on the block and frame and also at the battery. You also need to check the positive connection at the battery. Also a good load test on the battery. 11 volts is more then enough to turn the car over or at very min engauge the the starter drive

Cliff Harris

It's not a relay. GM calls this thing a "jump start junction block". There are a bunch of fusible links attached to it:

36Volt

Hmm if no other symptoms occur when it is running, the various grounds may not be as important as cleaning and confirming the actual battery terminals. no plastic is wedged between the thin flat metal surfaces and such.
Also if the car sits less than 1 or 2 days there should be an easy 12.6 volt sittin in there.
So I see 2 things here, low voltage and something causing it. You may have a bad alternator if a diode is going out they can fail where they fail to stop one direction flow and drain back to ground thus draining the battery.
The other thing to look into is your key off parasitic draw. Unhook one of your battery terminals and put an AMP meter between the battery and the terminal. At first you may see a few amps as the modules all re-energize their capacitors and stuff, but ULTIMATELY, after 10 minutes you should see LOWER than .02AMP draw or something is parasitically draining your battery. You can check this by plucking all the fuses one at a time till the one that is feeding the battery draining culprit, if the fuses don't stop it, disconnect the wires from the alternator, if this drops the draw, it a bad diode in the alternator.

36Volt

Additionally, if you have low voltage it can cause your PassKey to be giving the CCM the WRONG voltage and IT CAN lock out your starter. If this was the case then your security light will either flash constantly or stay on, you have to wait several minutes for that antitheft (VATS) feature to time out. And you will need at least 11+ volts for the pellet on your key to satisfy the antitheft feature in your CCM.

Ozzstar

I agree with you 36Volt on testing for a parasitic drain. Early C4's are known to have this problem in general.

To the OP. The test is simple enough to do with a $5 multimeter tool. Total amp draw with key off should not be more than .50 MAX. If that checks okay then....

It's time to start checking for a loose connection and/or corroded (bad) ground connection. Visual inspections do not always mean there is good contact: Remove, Clean, Re-install. Time to scuff up those ground leads and get a tight CLEAN connection for proper continuity.

volkswagens-for-life

Hmm lots of really good advice here. I will try all of this out this weekend assuming it doesn't snow again and I will report in.

Also I typically leave the car sit for a week at a time.

MavsAK

I'd pull the battery out so you get full access. Should be the only thing you need to remove to get at the post/junction.

All it takes is some of them to get crapped up and you'll have any number of electrical gremlins.