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I've posted this many, many times on the forums; that today's fluids combined with decent maintenance intervals are better than "good enough". I try to make this point especially when someone is extolling the (unknown) "virtues" of some elixir...you know, Marvel Mystery oil, Seafoam, Lucas additives, Slick50....those things. What they DO is generally unknown by most who use them...but what they must do, is meet the minimum requirements to not damage your engine. As far as the claims (cleans oiled areas, fuel'ed areas, etc) lets examine one engine that has never had or seen the "benefit" of such products...
Car is mine, a '92/LT1 with about 150k. Car is a driver, gets drag and road tracked and occasional autox. I change the oil & filter w/Mobil 1 5w-30 & Wix when the indicator says to.
OIL'ed areas.
Had to pull the intake to fix an oil leak at the rear wall. Here is the accumulated crud of 150,000+ miles in the oil'ed area, under the intake. As expected, it is CLEAN.
*Oil has detergent already in it. When you change your oil, dirt/carbon that is suspended in the oil gets drained out w/the oil, and that is more than enough to keep the oiled areas of your engine super clean, with decent maintenance.
FUEL'ed area/sample
"if you don't use special additives/high grade gas (etc) you'll get build up on your intake valves!" BULL!
As mandated by the EPA, gasoline has a minimum requirement for detergent. That alone is enough to keep your fuel system, valves, intake ports clean. Suppose I had used a bottle of "XXX" in my gas before removing my intake...I could have "proven" that the stuff works! Maybe "XXX" does work, but my engine doesn't need it.
This is a little different, but similar. It is also, following basic maintenance and that is changing your radiator fluid. In my case I use Dexcool, so I don't have to change it every year or two, but here are pics of a radiator pulled from my truck (Silverado) after I hit a cow, at 243,000 miles/17 years.
What does this mean or prove? Not much....just hoping people who wonder about the "need" for products like Seafoam et al, can see here, that in fact there is no "need" at all! Just do your maintenance on time, use brand name/trusted product, and enjoy your car for several hundred thousand miles.
EDIT, 11/02/17:
I just changed head gaskets in my brother's, wife's Subaru Outback this past weekend. With this threads like this in mind, I snapped a couple shots of the intake valves. Car is 8 years old, has 90k miles and gets the cheapest pump gas they can find in NorCal...no additives, ever.
Update, 12/17/18...
I'm doing a head gasket on a friend's, kid's Chevy truck; a '96 L31 Vortec 5.7. This truck has 233,300 miles on it. I highly doubt that this kid uses "Top Tier" or anything like that. Anyway...just have a look at that build up on the ports and valves! Terrible! Of course I'm kidding. They look flawless -just like the "clean" valves in the Shell "nitrogen enriched gasoline" commercials. Plain old gasoline is better than good enough.
.EDIT: 7/31/22
2001 Toyota Tacoma with 235,000 mi. Details and post 86.
I agree, 100%. I beat on my cars (dragstrip) and I probably change oil more often than most. Ive also never had a bearing failure or any catastrophic failure and Ive never used any additives either.
I've posted this many, many times on the forums; that today's fluids combined with decent maintenance intervals are better than "good enough". I try to make this point especially when someone is extolling the (unknown) "virtues" of some elixir...you know, Marvel Mystery oil, Seafoam, Lucas additives, Slick50....those things. What they DO is generally unknown by most who use them...but what they must do, is meet the minimum requirements to not damage your engine. As far as the claims (cleans oiled areas, fuel'ed areas, etc) lets examine one engine that has never had or seen the "benefit" of such products...
Car is mine, a '92/LT1 with about 150k. Car is a driver, gets drag and road tracked and occasional autox. I change the oil & filter w/Mobil 1 5w-30 & Wix when the indicator says to.
OIL'ed areas.
Had to pull the intake to fix an oil leak at the rear wall. Here is the accumulated crud of 150,000+ miles in the oil'ed area, under the intake. As expected, it is CLEAN.
*Oil has detergent already in it. When you change your oil, dirt/carbon that is suspended in the oil gets drained out w/the oil, and that is more than enough to keep the oiled areas of your engine super clean, with decent maintenance.
FUEL'ed area/sample
"if you don't use special additives/high grade gas (etc) you'll get build up on your intake valves!" BULL!
As mandated by the EPA, gasoline has a minimum requirement for detergent. That alone is enough to keep your fuel system, valves, intake ports clean. Suppose I had used a bottle of "XXX" in my gas before removing my intake...I could have "proven" that the stuff works! Maybe "XXX" does work, but my engine doesn't need it.
This is a little different, but similar. It is also, following basic maintenance and that is changing your radiator fluid. In my case I use Dexcool, so I don't have to change it every year or two, but here are pics of a radiator pulled from my truck (Silverado) after I hit a cow, at 243,000 miles/17 years.
What does this mean or prove? Not much....just hoping people who wonder about the "need" for products like Seafoam et al, can see here, that in fact there is no "need" at all! Just do your maintenance on time, use brand name/trusted product, and enjoy your car for several hundred thousand miles.
Oil additives are typically marketed by snake oil salesmen. The crap they are selling is completely unnecessary and won't do a damn thing to keep your engine running properly. In fact, they may do more harm than good. Use quality synthetic motor oil, change it at prescribed intervals and you're good to go. Anyone who tries convincing you otherwise is one of the aforementioned snake oil salesmen.
Do any of you remember the "Ultimate Oil Tests" thread that I posted a few months ago. In those tests some of the results on the oils got worse when an additive was used.....It seems the additives lowered the wear propertys of some of the oils......Who would have guessed???....WW
Here are the tests........ http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013...-test-ranking/
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Below is an example of an oil whose wear protection got worse with an additive. This could be because of the "Unknowns" that Tom speaks of in his first post...Who knows whats in the additive when they don't list the chemicals used in it on the container... ....
5. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 111,570 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of 115,612 psi. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability “WENT DOWN 3.5%”.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD
calcium = TBD
TBN = TBD
Ya mean all those years that i put STP stickers on my car was false advertising!! Im shocked, but the sticker made my cars go faster! Also cant forget the Thrush muffler stickers.
I have been using Prolong in this build since 2001 and it has performed extraordinarily well and given me a lot of extra engine life even after some very harsh conditions...
This engine was broken in "hot" and tight. After the first 500 miles it got fresh synthetic oil and its 1st taste of Prolong.
It even ran better with prolong in the oil...
Its now well over 200K, uses very little oil and has no mechanical internal issues of any kind. It gets fresh synthetic oil every 3-4000 miles and filter changes every 2000.
I ran it very hard the 1st 100K and then it suffered greatly in the harsh Az summers where the low for the day was 100...or more for weeks.
I'm quite used to hearing all the snake oil BS. People generally do fear what they do not understand. For those that care, or have an interest in learning something, read the link below. There are several articles like this floating around the web....
Out of ALL the 'snake oil' that's out there, Prolong seemed to be one that's the real-deal and I'm 100% satisfied after seeing and driving the results for a decade.
And here I thought that "Prolong" only made medications to enhance "sex drive"...Now there also into making your car go longer....Who would have guessed.......WW
Leesvet, You hasn't proven anything though. (?) All you've proven is that PROLONG didn't hurt your engine. You in no way quantified in what way PROLONG has benefited the engine. That it's gone 200k proves nothing (for PROLONG). It should go 200k...and beyond!
I showed my car's ~150k innards, only b/c it's just been apart -not to prove that "it lasted 150k". It was apart/convenient, so I took a pic. My truck ('96 Silverado), has 260K has "suffered greatly" (and all that stuff) too. It is a x-cab short bed 4x4 that in addition to DD'ing, does 700 mile weekend trips, towing my boat to Lake Powell and back through the Rocky Mountains -WOT much of that time. It'll go WOT @ Redline for 10, 15 minutes straight in some circumstances, such as climbing Parley's Canyon w/the boat in tow. it has performed extraordinarily well and given me a lot of extra engine life even after some very harsh conditions. Never had Prolong in it. How has it survived? Indeed, how does it still run/perform like new??
That a 350/V8 survived for 200k in a light sports car really doesn't prove that PROLONG did anything for you. I'd expect that motor to go 300k and beyond w/regular maintenance....no additives.
Taxes WILL become due and I will not have enough to pay.
the light bill WILL be more than expected, even with all the friggin curly bulbs they made me use.
I WILL be glad to see the winter months until I'm tired of being cold.
Then, I WILL be ready for summer again, despite the knowledge that I'll have to sweat some more.
And finally, TOM400cfi WILL respond with harsh criticism and a distain for anything that he does not personally endorse.
Tom, Pal, I am surprised that it took you more than 3 minutes to respond.
I was not trying to "prove" anything. I simply posted my Opinion, as you posted yours.
If people having an opinion is troublesome, then please don't invite others to do so. By posting that YOU do not believe in these products, IS an invitation for someone to post that they DO. I cannot speak for ANY other product and you MAY be correct in that Prolong did not HARM my engine, but you have to wonder, how many 100's of thousands of miles does it have to go before "not harming" turns into "helped"? I'm seriously considering letting this one go to 300,000 before dropping the new build in...that's only a few short months away. When I DO, I will tear it down, measure the wear and then if you're lucky, I'll post the results, which I already know, that this product when used as directed does reduce friction and wear, just as the independent test result showed. So, it does not harm my engine?
What do I change if I DO want to see 300,000 miles on this build?
Not a Fuc*ing thing ! That means, keep adding Prolong to the oil because IMHO, it WILL help....
You see, I've already got experience with a tear down and seeing physical results from the use of this product. That was a little less than 200K, but when you see mains that show virtually no wear, and pistons that have almost no scuffing on the skirts and rings that are still tight, after nearly 200K...you have to ask? whats different? In that case it was the use of Prolong. Again, people will fear what they do not understand.
Like I have explained, there ARE things that I KNOW that WILL happen....
Sitting back watching TV while waiting for the "flames" to appear....was done KNOWING what would happen...
Some of you are entirely too predictable.
If people having an opinion is troublesome, then please don't invite others to do so. By posting that YOU do not believe in these products, IS an invitation for someone to post that they DO. I cannot speak for ANY other product and you MAY be correct in that Prolong did not HARM my engine, but you have to wonder, how many 100's of thousands of miles does it have to go before "not harming" turns into "helped"? I'm seriously considering letting this one go to 300,000 before dropping the new build in...that's only a few short months away. When I DO, I will tear it down, measure the wear and then if you're lucky, I'll post the results, which I already know, that this product when used as directed does reduce friction and wear, just as the independent test result showed. So, it does not harm my engine?
What do I change if I DO want to see 300,000 miles on this build?
Not a Fuc*ing thing ! That means, keep adding Prolong to the oil because IMHO, it WILL help....
You see, I've already got experience with a tear down and seeing physical results from the use of this product. That was a little less than 200K, but when you see mains that show virtually no wear, and pistons that have almost no scuffing on the skirts and rings that are still tight, after nearly 200K...you have to ask? whats different? In that case it was the use of Prolong. Again, people will fear what they do not understand.
Should I wait longer before I reply??
My post wasn't to criticize, it was intended to provoke you to provide more evidence of your claims.
Originally Posted by leesvet
That was a little less than 200K, but when you see mains that show virtually no wear, and pistons that have almost no scuffing on the skirts and rings that are still tight, after nearly 200K...you have to ask? whats different? In that case it was the use of Prolong.
My truck with over 60,000 more miles than your engine, runs/performs flawlessly. How would PROLONG have helped? What am I missing?
What's the difference you ask? Mine has gone further than yours, and I didn't spend any money on PROLONG.
People do fear that which they do not know -you are right. People also worship that which they can't explain.
I just changed my oil for the 3rd time today since I had her.
1st upon buying at 153,000 then 157,000 now today at 160,000
I when I drained and checked out the oil I found not a single silver speck upon
pouring it out. I read somewhere STP is great for our engines(85) So I used 10-40 cheveron supreme and a microguard oil filter(16.99 deal) plus half a bottle of the STP.
I had to stick with this recipe, I am very happy with what I see.
Knock on wood no smoke at all still.
Sta-Bil is an additive. Lots of people here on CF not only use it but also recommend it.
True, but Sta-bil only stabilizes the fuel,it's not used in the engine directly.....It has also been proven to work by independent tests and by the fact that my own fuel doesn't turn to varnish when it's been in the tank for a year..Sta-bil is easy to prove it works....If a product is making a motor last longer or not is much harder to prove...WW
Sta-Bil is an additive. Lots of people here on CF not only use it but also recommend it.
Indeed it is highly recommended on forums. I've never used it, either. Not in my cars, boats, or fleet vehicles that sit seasonally. Never bought the stuff. If I ever have an issue w/fuel going bad, I may try it.
10-20-2014, 06:31 PM
Do I need additives for long engine life?
..It seems the additives lowered the wear propertys of some of the oils...
...Who would have guessed???....WW
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