HlhnEast

I thought it strange that some oil companies are advertising synthetics that are made from natural gas......Since nat gas to me is a petroleum product, there is nothing "syntho" about it. just made from another petroleum product. Syntho to me is made from non petroleum type chemicals.

I do use the high mileage part synthos in my car cuz its way north of 150K.

Strick

What does GM say about the new formula syn oils? They still say to use Mobil 1. Wouldn't they know if the oil changed? Remember, it's still a good idea to change the oil frequently. That's the best protection you can get. I haven't heard of anyone using Royal Purple Syn oil. It has zinc.

WW7

Just remember, GM is like any other company out there, it's all about the money...If one of the other major oil companys would have given GM the best deal on their oil , we could all now be using "Pennsoil" because it's what came in the cars from the factory.....I don't think GM cares one way or another, as long as the Mobil 1 meets all the standards...Besides, GM is to busy with all their recalls to worry about oil.....WW

GKK

"Tomato", Tomotto"...

All oils have to meet strict US Government standards for quality and protection so, all oils sold in the US, are good.

Just, believe whatever online site or promotional literature you want to and you decide.

C66 Racing

The link posted by the OP is to an Independent AMSOIL Dealer's website, not the corporate AMSOIL website. AMSOIL doesn't make any claims of what basestock's other companies are using to the best of my knowledge.

That said, I personally agree with the information on that link (as biased as I may appear to be).

For those not aware of the background here, the API has not come out and defined what is "synthetic", but rather, classified oils (basestocks) into five major groups.

Group I base oils are the least refined of all of the groups. They are usually a mix of different hydrocarbon chains with little or no uniformity. While some automotive oils use these stocks, they are generally used in less demanding applications.

Group II base oils are common in mineral based motor oils. They have fair to good performance in the areas of volatility, oxidation stability, wear prevention and flash/fire points. They have only fair performance in areas such as pour point and cold crank viscosity. Group II base stocks are what the majority of engine oils are made from. 3000 mile oil changes are the norm.

Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of refining of all the mineral oil stocks. Although not chemically engineered, they offer improved performance in a wide range of areas as well as good molecular uniformity and stability. By definition they are considered a synthesized material and can be used in the production of synthetic and semi-synthetic lubricants. Group III is used in the vast majority of full synthetics or synthetic blends. They are superior to group I and II oils but still have limitations. Some formulations are designed for extended oil changes. Almost all off the shelf synthetics today are Group III.

Group IV are polyalphaolefins (PAO) which are a chemically engineered synthesized basestocks. PAOs offer excellent stability, molecular uniformity and performance over a wide range of lubricating properties. PAO is a much more expensive basestock than the highly refined petroleum oil basestock of Group III.

Group V base oils are also chemically engineered stocks that do not fall into any of the categories previously mentioned. Typical examples of group V stocks are Esters, polyglycols and silicone. Red Line uses an ester basestock.

In the 90s, Mobil filed suit against Castrol for falsely advertising Syntec oil as synthetic, when in fact it contained a Group III, highly hydroprocessed mineral oil, instead of a chemically synthesized (Group IV or V) basestock. Due to the amount that the mineral oil had been chemically changed, the NAD decided in Castrol's favor. As a result, any oil containing this highly hydroprocessed mineral oil (currently called Group III basestock by the American Petroleum Institute) can be marketed as a synthetic oil. Since the original synthetic basestock (polyalphaolefin or PAO) is much more expensive than the Group III basestock, most of the oil blenders switched to the Group III basestock, which significantly increased their profit margins.

I've been watching the oil companies websites for about 10 years now. Mobil 1 used to overtly claim they used a PAO basestock. About 7 years ago, that changed. Here is their answer to a customers question on the topic:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...Base_Oils.aspx

AMSOIL's also used to overtly claim they used a PAO basestock in most of their oils (not the XL or OE lines), but they too dropped this a few years ago. The performance specs didn't noticeably change and I strongly suspect their Signature Series and high performance oils (like the Dominator Racing oil I use) are still PAO based, but I don't know that. I have asked AMSOIL to overtly state their basestock, but no joy yet.

aDigitalPhantom

If you look at the links on the page the OP linked to over 70% of them links to amsoil.com. I was not trying to say that anyone here is biased. While the site may be an independant dealer, I cant trust that are not just restating what amsoil told them to. The reason for this is the amount of links to various amsoil.com pages on upmpg.com.


The "Online Store" link at the top is "http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=278060&page=StoreFront/default"
The "By Pass" link "https://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?category=18?zo=278060"
"Racing Oil" is "http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-racing-motor-oil?zo=278060"

6 out of 33 links at the top of the page link to upmpg.com 26 are to amsoil.com and 1 is to lubedealer.com.

DGXR

I read MobilExxon's BS response to that direct question and I see an admission that they are NOT using Group IV (PAO) basestocks in any of their products labeled as "full synthetic." This is confirmed by the fact that Mobil-1 "full synthetic" (including EP) motor oil is barely more expensive than premium conventional motor oils. Mobil-1 would almost certainly be much more expensive if it had Group IV basestocks.

Having said that, let's remember that Mobil-1 still carries the GM approval for use in Corvettes, so I'm comfortable using it in my stock LT1. I'm not racing or abusing my car and it gets regular oil changes, which is what matters most. And there is a silver lining on this cloud, being that a "full synthetic" oil change is dirt cheap! LOL

VmaxFlyer

Not
All
Parts
American

Silver96ce

And this relates to the topic in what way?

aDigitalPhantom

No parts store has all of it's parts made in the US.

PS
I get most of my parts from NAPA for three reasons.
1. The parts guys are also car guys, and know what they are doing. They are also friendly.
2. At this location if NAPA does not have it, they can still normally get it. The exception being C4 specific parts.
3. Only parts store in town until O'Reilly opens, but it has been waiting to open for at least 4 months. It cant open because they cant get power.

Tom400CFI

Indeed. Thread is about oil though...not parts' origin.

While it's disappointing that a legal ruling may have been motivation for M1 (and others) to cheapen their formula, the bottom line is that it works. More precisely, it is way better than good enough....what ever they're doing, it works better than it has to.

It's a little like being upset that the Corvette isn't DOHC when we have 400, 430, 505, 556, 640 hp push rods getting it done. Psychologically, we may want that PAO/DOHC...but if the Group III/pushrod gets it done cheaper...I guess our psychology needs to adjust.

WW7

I understand what your saying Tom, ( let me try this Analogy) If they tell you your Corvette has a DOHC engine , and later on you pull the motor apart and find out it's not DOHC, just another standard engine with push rods ,even though it gets the job done,, your going to be pissed..Right.........WW...

Tom400CFI

good point.

ghlkal

Good information - thanks.

I'm using Amsoil because of the additive package and because it's recommended by my tuner.

Yes, but it's OK. I checked and my LT5 *is* DOHC

aDigitalPhantom

I am crazy then, I don't want a DOHC eninge. If I had the opposite happen I would not like it. (told it was not DOHC, and found out it was.) The ZR-1 is nice but not for me.

rocco16

So do all U.S. Presidential candidates...and look what we ended up with.

Silver96ce

Hey its Thanksgiving - please let's have no politics to ruin my digestion. and Happy Turkey Day!

HGUNHNTR

Yeah, I hate going there. My motor oil is the only thing I buy there....and ammo.